How could Horus possibly 'neutralise Plalanx'?

[Deus Imperator Vult]

When you say abyss class do you mean the Furious Abyiss? Cause I though she was one of a kind.

 

I like to think about Dorn, building that thing up on his own. That makes me laugh.

Ha! Yeah just there with a hammer and some metal. Sigismund and Archemis at aged ten just sitting there like 'What'cha makin!?'

[EzekyleVIII]

Just checking a point here.. There were at least 2 star forts at the siege? Phalanx and the sky fortress? Plus the emperors flagship? And the fleets of 3 legions? Plus the defenses already in place? And not a single traitor legion was wiped from the face of the universe? Really? REALLY?! Were they all wearing blue armour and called uriel ventris?

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Yes well appart from Phalanx may be away (there are some spoliers in Betrayer which I've yet to read.) but you need to take into account the fleets against them. The Conqurer and her auxilliries, even from the Butchers nails me know how violent she is, Fidilatias Lex and hers, Vengeful Spirit and hers plus atleast some of the Death Guard fleet, Curzes armada, Purturabos, Fulgrims AND we don't know if when Magnus reappears he appears with ships. So really a couple of star forts and three battle barges arent looking like such a defence now are they...

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Getting a Titan onto a space faring vessel is an improbable and silly idea. I like it.

Haven't read Priests of Mars yet, then, eh?

Er... actually I have.

Let me rephrase that then - trying to get a Titan to board another ship mid-combat is an improbable and silly idea. I still like it.

My apologies. And that's a fair point -- I like it too!

[Vesper]

Yes well appart from Phalanx may be away (there are some spoliers in Betrayer which I've yet to read.) but you need to take into account the fleets against them. The Conqurer and her auxilliries, even from the Butchers nails me know how violent she is, Fidilatias Lex and hers, Vengeful Spirit and hers plus atleast some of the Death Guard fleet, Curzes armada, Purturabos, Fulgrims AND we don't know if when Magnus reappears he appears with ships. So really a couple of star forts and three battle barges arent looking like such a defence now are they...

The Night Lords aren't at the Siege, at least not the entire legion.  And the Thousand Sons are confirmed on Terra. By that time, they already are the puppets of Tzeentch.

[Octavulg]

The Night Lords aren't at the Siege, at least not the entire legion.

Boy, Talos and Co had some really detailed hallucinations, then.

(Part of the Legion may have been absent, but some of them were there)

[Vesper]

Yep, as I said. But that's most most likely nothing significant. Or that would be a huge, unnecessary and pretty bad retcon.

[EzekyleVIII]

i would like to point out my post appears to have been vastly mis-interperated. i at no point said a mere 3 battle barges with the star forts against the combined fleets of 9 legions (potentially). I was expressing suprise, that with all the firepower available, the traitors seemed to get away with a more than expected amount of assets and lives intact...

There arent enough daemons in the warp that could take down the Phalanx.

[carpediem]

IMHO the best way to take down something as big and nasty as the Phalanx (unless it has a conveniently vulnerable exhaust port, and you a handily psychic rookie pilot) would be from the inside: infiltrate the crew and overload the reactors, or disable the engines.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

IMHO the best way to take down something as big and nasty as the Phalanx (unless it has a conveniently vulnerable exhaust port, and you a handily psychic rookie pilot) would be from the inside: infiltrate the crew and overload the reactors, or disable the engines.

I agree which is why I said I will scream if thats what they do! I'm already getting sick of the Alpha legion in the Heresy if they hand them that sort of victory I will... well as I said I will scream. That being the case though, if I were Dorn, I would have the crew both human and astartes monitered that closely that infiltration would be impossible. Frankly I'd rather an exhaust port and a psyker pilot that a bunch of dirty Alpharus's pawing all over the ship.

[Kol Saresk]

Or you could just pound so much firepower from the outside that the Phalanx's weapons become useless and then the Traitors just let it drift in orbit. Again, the Betrayer spoiler. When you have the chance or the curiosity pushes you too far.

Yes well appart from Phalanx may be away (there are some spoliers in Betrayer which I've yet to read.) but you need to take into account the fleets against them. The Conqurer and her auxilliries, even from the Butchers nails me know how violent she is, Fidilatias Lex and hers, Vengeful Spirit and hers plus atleast some of the Death Guard fleet, Curzes armada, Purturabos, Fulgrims AND we don't know if when Magnus reappears he appears with ships. So really a couple of star forts and three battle barges arent looking like such a defence now are they...

The Night Lords aren't at the Siege, at least not the entire legion. And the Thousand Sons are confirmed on Terra. By that time, they already are the puppets of Tzeentch.

You do remember when I pointed out in the Night Lords IA article where it said the Night Lords did go to Terra right? Without a specification on who or how many? Sort of like that saying "Speak where the Bible speaks, be silent where the Bible is silent" except in this case you replace the Bible with "fluff." The fluff says the Night Lords were at Terra. Doesn't who or in what number, but they were there. As such, not can only someone say that they weren't, but they can't say in what numbers either.

Oh and Dues, those spoilers are really something. Although, it saddens me to

mention the loss of the Fidelits Lex and the severe damaging of the Conqueror(like very severe),

which is also found in Betrayer.

Edit: Apparently the code hates me.

[Rime]

Blast it with scrapcode

[Vesper]

Or you could just pound so much firepower from the outside that the Phalanx's weapons become useless and then the Traitors just let it drift in orbit. Again, the Betrayer spoiler. When you have the chance or the curiosity pushes you too far.

Yes well appart from Phalanx may be away (there are some spoliers in Betrayer which I've yet to read.) but you need to take into account the fleets against them. The Conqurer and her auxilliries, even from the Butchers nails me know how violent she is, Fidilatias Lex and hers, Vengeful Spirit and hers plus atleast some of the Death Guard fleet, Curzes armada, Purturabos, Fulgrims AND we don't know if when Magnus reappears he appears with ships. So really a couple of star forts and three battle barges arent looking like such a defence now are they...

The Night Lords aren't at the Siege, at least not the entire legion. And the Thousand Sons are confirmed on Terra. By that time, they already are the puppets of Tzeentch.

You do remember when I pointed out in the Night Lords IA article where it said the Night Lords did go to Terra right? Without a specification on who or how many? Sort of like that saying "Speak where the Bible speaks, be silent where the Bible is silent" except in this case you replace the Bible with "fluff." The fluff says the Night Lords were at Terra. Doesn't who or in what number, but they were there. As such, not can only someone say that they weren't, but they can't say in what numbers either.

Oh and Dues, those spoilers are really something. Although, it saddens me to

mention the loss of the Fidelits Lex and the severe damaging of the Conqueror(like very severe),

which is also found in Betrayer.

Edit: Apparently the code hates me.

You've read the IA about the siege, right ?

So you think the Night Lords were there but did nothing worth noticing ? I like that theory.

[Apemantus]

Just a point about boarding , was it in the last soul drinker book ( or somewhere else I can't remember off the top of my head) that it was mentioned that a boarding attack against Phallanx was almost impossible as there are many layers of fake corridors just under the surface that are used to fool attacking parties, these corridors are then vented and the attackers blow out into space halting any attack before they can get into the 'real' parts of the ship. That and Phallanx is so huge like a small moon and I'm guessing that only the fists themselves would have any clue how to get anywhere worth attacking and with and great speed

Personally I think a boarding attack is out of the question and a head on attack would be fruitless, I think the only ideal way would be a distraction of some kind, I'll be very interested in what part Phallanx has to play

[Kol Saresk]

Or you could just pound so much firepower from the outside that the Phalanx's weapons become useless and then the Traitors just let it drift in orbit. Again, the Betrayer spoiler. When you have the chance or the curiosity pushes you too far.

Yes well appart from Phalanx may be away (there are some spoliers in Betrayer which I've yet to read.) but you need to take into account the fleets against them. The Conqurer and her auxilliries, even from the Butchers nails me know how violent she is, Fidilatias Lex and hers, Vengeful Spirit and hers plus atleast some of the Death Guard fleet, Curzes armada, Purturabos, Fulgrims AND we don't know if when Magnus reappears he appears with ships. So really a couple of star forts and three battle barges arent looking like such a defence now are they...

The Night Lords aren't at the Siege, at least not the entire legion. And the Thousand Sons are confirmed on Terra. By that time, they already are the puppets of Tzeentch.

You do remember when I pointed out in the Night Lords IA article where it said the Night Lords did go to Terra right? Without a specification on who or how many? Sort of like that saying "Speak where the Bible speaks, be silent where the Bible is silent" except in this case you replace the Bible with "fluff." The fluff says the Night Lords were at Terra. Doesn't who or in what number, but they were there. As such, not can only someone say that they weren't, but they can't say in what numbers either.

Oh and Dues, those spoilers are really something. Although, it saddens me to

mention the loss of the Fidelits Lex and the severe damaging of the Conqueror(like very severe),

which is also found in Betrayer.

Edit: Apparently the code hates me.

You've read the IA about the siege, right ?

So you think the Night Lords were there but did nothing worth noticing ? I like that theory.

Neither did the Sons of Horus but everyone knows they were at Terra.

And there's no mention of the Word Bearers. But again, everyone knows they were at Terra.

In fact, the only Legions mentioned are the Cult Four(well, a partial on the KSons as it does say they had already started to splinter), the Iron Warriors and the Sons of Horus. But the Sons of Horus were kept in reserves and did not participate in the fighting. But we do know that all nine Legions were there in some capacity or another. Well, no, I don't recall mention of the Alpha Legion being at the Siege... Even in their IA article.

[Octavulg]

The Word Bearers IA gives them a sentence about Terra. That's it, though. The Night Lords are cutting a bloody swathe toward Terra in theirs, but their presence isn't actually mentioned.

 

The Alpha Legion are specifically mentioned as having broken off from the thrust against Terra in their IA, which doesn't preclude elements from remaining with the main body.

[Kol Saresk]

IIRC, the IA article says that while Calth was happening, Lorgar was on his way to Terra. Is that the one sentence?

 

But that's my point. The IA articles point both Legions at Terra. Sources like the Word Bearers and Night Lords series show that both Legions were at Terra, but not in what numbers. So, the backgrounds put together point that they were at Terra, but as I said earlier, their strength was unknown.

 

And like I said, I didn't recall if the Alpha Legion were there or not, but thanks for the info.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Pfft of course the Alpha Legion wouldn't be there it's a straight up fight not hiding in the closet waiting for your enemy to go to sleep before you go after them. Apologies to any AL fans but personally I cannot wait to read the scene where Guilliman guts one of them.

[Octavulg]

Basically. "While Kor Phaeron set his men upon Calth, Lorgar was leading the rest of the Legion against Terra. The horrors of the battles there were beyond the comprehension of mortal beings and fill many vaults of the Library Sanctus. Lorgar helped smash down the realm of the master he had once served with the fanaticism of a zealot. Suffice to say, Horus was defeated, and the legions of Chaos were forced to flee. The Word Bearers were also forced to retreat to the Eye of Terror, and there they have remained, returning to the Imperium to raid, pillage, and destroy, awaiting the chance to reclaim what was once theirs."

So a bit more than a sentence. But not much.

And like I said, I didn't recall if the Alpha Legion were there or not, but thanks for the info.

No worries.

[Kol Saresk]

True enough. Just means that the IA Siege article does not list the entirety of the Siege, just the main points that it even said it would mention, such as how it does not mention the battle in orbit.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

I suppose a lot about the orbital capabilities of both sides is still being written I mean we didn't even know what Ursas claws were this time last year... it's definitely going to be a good read when they get there.

[Vesper]

Neither did the Sons of Horus but everyone knows they were at Terra.

And there's no mention of the Word Bearers. But again, everyone knows they were at Terra.

In fact, the only Legions mentioned are the Cult Four(well, a partial on

the KSons as it does say they had already started to splinter), the

Iron Warriors and the Sons of Horus. But the Sons of Horus were kept in

reserves and did not participate in the fighting. But we do know that

all nine Legions were there in some capacity or another. Well, no, I

don't recall mention of the Alpha Legion being at the Siege... Even in

their IA article.

We know the Vengeful Spirit, Horus and Abaddon were there. I think it's safe to say the Sons of Horus weren't far from Terra.

The WB weren't a Terra too, but we know Lorgar was en route.

[Marshall Bretton]

in terms of fleet battle tactics in this sort of situation:

 

the size of both fleets is enormous, the loyalist fleet no doubt has multiple star forts and fleets as well as centrepieces like the phalanx, whilst the traitors have the combined fleets of 9 legions although parts of some of those fleets were off elsewhere doing other bits and they also had

the 2 remaining kingships of the word bearers assuming they don't get destroyed at some point before the battle

 

 

in a battle that size it seems likely that it would go on for a considerable time, no doubt into the siege itself. my personal goal as an attacker would be to get a large enough beachhead to allow deployment of forces to the surface, and given the size of the planet that would not be particularly hard to do.

it seems likely to me that the traitors were able to force a breach in the defences and deploy troops so the space battle was still raging whilst the siege of the palace itself took place

the phalanx was probably just at another part of the defensive line away from wherever the traitors were able to make a breach.

 

personally i would lead the assault with

the 2 king ships,

blast a hole in the line at its weakest point (i.e. away from the phalanx) and send assault ships like battlebarges and strike cruisers in to secure and expand the breach, as well as deploy the initial assault forces via drop pod and any large capacity landers they can manage to get through the hellstorm that is a space battle of that scale

 

 

in terms of the original question of how i would destroy the phalanx?

lure it into a trap of some sort where you can play to its weaknesses, personally i don't know of any that it has

i think the best way to neutralise it is to go by the art of war "fight the enemy where he isn't" basically either lure the phalanx away from where you want to attack, or simply attack somewhere else.

yes the phalanx can move, but im certain that it won't be moving quickly at all, in the battle of terra just direct your forces to other areas, keep away from it. a space battle takes place over hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of miles, keeping away from something that slow should not be difficult

[Kol Saresk]

Neither did the Sons of Horus but everyone knows they were at Terra.

And there's no mention of the Word Bearers. But again, everyone knows they were at Terra.

In fact, the only Legions mentioned are the Cult Four(well, a partial on

the KSons as it does say they had already started to splinter), the

Iron Warriors and the Sons of Horus. But the Sons of Horus were kept in

reserves and did not participate in the fighting. But we do know that

all nine Legions were there in some capacity or another. Well, no, I

don't recall mention of the Alpha Legion being at the Siege... Even in

their IA article.

We know the Vengeful Spirit, Horus and Abaddon were there. I think it's safe to say the Sons of Horus weren't far from Terra.

The WB weren't a Terra too, but we know Lorgar was en route.

Basically. "While Kor Phaeron set his men upon Calth, Lorgar was leading the rest of the Legion against Terra. The horrors of the battles there were beyond the comprehension of mortal beings and fill many vaults of the Library Sanctus. Lorgar helped smash down the realm of the master he had once served with the fanaticism of a zealot. Suffice to say, Horus was defeated, and the legions of Chaos were forced to flee. The Word Bearers were also forced to retreat to the Eye of Terror, and there they have remained, returning to the Imperium to raid, pillage, and destroy, awaiting the chance to reclaim what was once theirs."

Just means that the IA Siege article does not list the entirety of the Siege, just the main points that it even said it would mention, such as how it does not mention the battle in orbit.

[Vesper]

 

Just means that the IA Siege article does not list the entirety of the

Siege, just the main points that it even said it would mention, such as

how it does not mention the battle in orbit.

So what you are saying is that the WB were just active during the orbital battle, because there's not a single word about WB in the IA. That's an interesting point of view.

As I read it "against Terra" and "Lorgar helped smash down the realm of the master he had once served", means that he was making his way to Terra while smashing everything in his path.