++2014 Community IA Creation Project++ COMPLETE!

[Marquise]

I'm sorry to say this but I don't see any major difference between Firepower's concept and mine. This is mainly because in my last two posts that expanded my original thought included the scenario where those marines that loathed their heightened also included that those marines would seek out other extreme indulgences.

 

I appolize here because I thought that, by inference, that would include drug abuse, torture, or any other extreme excess that didn't neccessarily have to do with the five senses. Taking drugs has more to with the mental effects and physical reaction of the drugs; addiction comes from immunity to smaller quanitites therefore you need to take more to get the same effects. beat is more about control/dominance of the victim than it does sex since a person can be beat with a broom-handle. Torture be done without the five senses, a cold bastard can torture just for the act itself. These are just few of the other excessive "pleasing" indulgences that would be perfectly acceptable to Slaanesh to see from a follower.

 

I also might of been wrong in infering that the marines who sew eyes shut, etc would do so to the extent of not being combat effective. Even those that loath their heightened senses wouldn't do away with all senses that would hamper battle, but even if they did they still couldn't truly avoid what was happening to them as they would still be aware of the internal sensation of burning energy as they wither.

 

Even if marines didn't sew eyes shut, etc. and follow Slaanesh there is nothing to say the marines couldn't loath the heightened senses (taking into account my above points). I think Slaanesh would be rather delighted with the vicious cycle this creates: the marines suffer torment from their heightened senses thus creating loathing, loathing turns to hate as the heightened senses become worse, and so on; Slaanesh feeds on the loathing/hate or more correctly the energy produced by internal physical reaction of marines to hate.

 

So yes Slaanesh followers associate any extreme sensation with pleasure and become addicts who need more. This might be where my problem comes in: my view is that sensations come from various sources, which include but are not limited to the five senses. Another problemsome view is that it's not necessarially what pleasures the followers are into but what pleasures Slaanesh gets from whatever the followers are doing.

 

I hope this explains things further. If doesn't , I can only say that I tried.

[Malthe]

Just read through the last five pages and I really like where this seems to be going.

 

That being said I think what this chapter desperately needs (as of now) is a drive. Something to keep the story going.

Or put differently, a very good reason not to take things to the logical conclusion and simply kill themselves off by flying into a sun.

 

I'll try to explain by example:

 

1. Upon creation they are, like any regular chapter, driven by loyalty to the Imperium, the Emperor, etc.

2. Their curse sets in and their drive expands to include the search of a cure or at least a way to remain combat efficient (e.g. taking sedatives or the like).

3a. The chapter cure their heightened sense (more sedatives?) and realize that the world is now meaningless, leading them to Slaanesh who'll gladly give them back. sensation.

or

3b. The chapter receives an offer they can't refuse when Slaanesh offers to ease their pain, leaving them hollow unfeeling husks desperate for sensation to return.

 

Right now, as I see it, 3a is where we're at.

However the problem 3a is that after being given back their hyper senses by Big S, the marines have now achieved their goal and are free to sit back with a boom blaster, shining lights in each other's eyes while howling with twisted pleasure. This is quite frankly not a very interesting end.

 

I find 3b. a lot more interesting since the marines now have to do something active (they are driven!) to achieve the sensation they lack.

However this would mean successfully (give or take...) removing the chapter's curse which I'm not sure is a good idea. Other than that their drive is basically the same as the EC's and not very original. Still it might just work if expanded upon a little.

 

I hope my pondering is helpful :)

 

p.s. Every sensation derives from the five senses, since they are the only way you are able to experience nerve stimuli and thus anything at all. If your point was that physical satisfaction is not the only way to feel pleasure you are of course absolutely right, with the aber dabei that if someone is deriving pleasure by for example exerting control over others, he or she needs to perceive (through the five senses) the object of his control. However this is all purely academic and not very relevant to the topic at hand. I apologize for mentioning it anyhow :)

 

p.p.s. Upon considering the above it occurs to me that the mere memory of the hyper-sensations the marines no longer feel could be an interesting way to hold on to the original curse. This thought is very undeveloped, sorry 'bout that.

[Firepower]

I am getting the feeling some of us are talking past one another.

 

On one specific issue that seems to be getting garbled from one post to the next is the notion of sensation, which is sort of fundamental.

 

Yes, there is more than one sort of sensation. There are basic sensory perceptions- taste, feel, smell, sight and hearing. Then there are emotional sensations- fear, hatred, anger, excitement, ecstasy, anguish, etc. And then there are, for lack of a better term, external sensations: those inflicted on another person via acts such as torture.

 

<Any and all of the above would give Slaanesh jollies. However, those that surrender to him, those that embrace Slaanesh wholly, will seek to indulge in the whole gambit, not just emotional delight or seeking out tasty foods. They seek all extreme sensations they can experience: primary sensory, emotional sensory, and external sensory. So, those that do accept Slaanesh as a savior will become what most have referred to here as "Noise Marines." No, they will not suddenly make guitar guns and subwoofer cannons, but the nature of the Noise Marines is the nature of all dedicated followers of Slaanesh, and there isn't anything that would logically change that.

 

If Slaanesh took away their senses in a devil's-deal scenario to save them from the pain, having numb marines that wreak carnage to feel something again after the fact isn't particularly logical. Slaanesh wants any and all sensations, and though he would be pleased with people slaughtering others in horrible ways, he would not be satisfied if only the victims and not his servants could feel it. If he has the power to take the senses away, he would have the power to give them back, so there is no reason that the end result, the ultimate fate, should be numb marines.

 

And so the division of sensations comes to those who are attempting to resist, and here is the logical trap or catch 22. By numbing themselves, they feel relief and pleasure. Their relapses into pain are agonizing, as is their futile self mutilation. They may go to perverse extremes to make newer, unholy but powerful sedatives. All this is done to avoid totally succumbing to Slaanesh, but because all these actions would please him, they are simply succumbing to him in a much slower, more maddening way.

 

The end result for those that resist is the same as those who give themselves up from the start, it's just a much more torturous way to fall. They may suffer from some special madness, and they'd still bare the scars of self mutilation, but they would inevitably be just as Noise Marine-ish as anyone by the end.

 

Cliffnotes- All sensations make Slaanesh happy. Slaanesh doesn't like any restraint or hindrance of experience. Therefor, numb marines as a conclusion cannot work. The catch 22 of those marines that resist makes for an interesting plot device, but the end result is still only a choice between "Noise Marine" type followers, or death. Trying to avoid that as 'boring,' is like saying we should have Khorne worshipers that aren't angry or disease free Nurgle marines.

 

Good writing is about the journey, not the destination.

[Conn Eremon]

 

Trying to avoid that as 'boring,' is like saying we should have Khorne worshipers that aren't angry or disease free Nurgle marines.

 

Just in case this was directed at me (and I'm not taking offense, just clarifying), the issue I have with Noise Marines is the 'Noise' part. You illustrated above that though you are referring to Noise Marines as 'followers of Slaanesh,' you're not specifically referring to those that do so by joining 80's rock bands. I certainly don't want Slaaneshi Marines that are less about exploring and indulging sensations than they should be, any more than I'd want calm Khornates or healthy . . . Nurgloids? I don't want, however, Slaaneshi Marines that are all about hurtin' you with their rockin'.

 

In other words, you're using Noise Marines as a catch-all for all Slaaneshi Marines, whereas I use it for that specific kind of Slaaneshi Marine, but we otherwise seem to be on the same page.

 

This is all I'm saying because we haven't quite decided which route to take to damnation yet and I've already stated I have no real inclination of one over another.

[Malthe]

I would argue that Slaanesh is more about indulgence than sensation, even though the two are often concurrent practically speaking. Further I'd argue that numbness might be considered a pleasure to indulge in by marines with hyper heightened senses, which renders the argument whole somewhat moot.

 

Other than that I very much agree with you Firepower; the journey is more important than the destination. However that might not be true for the marines embarking upon said journey.

My point remains that the 'Sons of Sköll' (which sounds very weird in danish by the way, but I digress...) need a some sort of overarching goal or drive. Or, to stick with the metaphor; a reason to go on a-journeying.

 

For their fall to Slaanesh to be credible (and I very much like the path you are suggesting!), they simply need an excuse to go traitor rather than simply kill themselves to escape the horrendous pain they are suffering. Right now they aren't really offered anything by Slaanesh, certainly not any sort of salvation, so why would they ever seek to please him? In my humble opinion there is a logical gap in the story where the marines inexplicably goes from escaping pain to embracing it as pleasurable.

 

Is your reasoning that the act of worshiping Slaanesh in itself makes all extreme sensations pleasurable?

I agree that Slaaanesh would find pleasure in all forms of sensation, but I am not convinced that his followers necessarily feel the same way. Frankly I find it unlikely.

 

Finally, I am not saying that the Sons (if that be their name) shouldn't be somewhat Noise Marine-ish - although I'd think there would be many other ways of worshiping Slaanesh - I am simply stating that if their goals are exactly the same as the Noise Marines we need to come up with something else to make these remain interesting after their fall.

 

 

By the way, I think this is the hardest part of writing good traitor IAs; they have to make sense and be interesting before, during and after their fall. Demanding a logical narrative development that can be told in very few words.

It's bloody hard, but fun :D 

[Marquise]

After pulling out every single chaos related book I have and re-reading the Slaanesh sections, I think I finally see the problem here. The change in wording from "any and all" (pick and choose your pleasure attitude) to "all" (all pleasure or nothing attitude) alters the Slaaneshi viewpoint. This is another subtle shift by GW that I probably glossed over due to decades of reading what is essentially the same material - I apologize for my slight ignorance on this point.

 

That being said, it's still comes down to an individual's opinion or taste. Although I found my error in this discussion, I personally perfer the broader "any and all" view. In my opinion neither view is completely right or wrong.

[Octavulg]

Slaanesh, these days at least, "epitomises excess in all things". I have a hard time seeing him going for sensory deprivation. Except, possibly, total sensory deprivation. Which would seem to rather hamper their abilities in combat.

 

Which might be kind of neat, but they wouldn't exactly be a chapter any more.

[Malthe]

Damn, you're right, I just found that quote. They spoiled Slaanesh :( Oh, the irony!

 

I see your point that it would seem unlikely for Big S to gift them with sensory deprivation. Even though I thought it was a devilishly ironic idea. But in that case I still think the Sons need a well explained reason for offering themselves up to Slaanesh.

And, if I am to be bluntly honerst; a more interesting (perhaps more specific) goal than that of the Noise Marines ("we do it for the thrills" is such a sad excuse...).

 

I think Firepower's Catch-22 is quite clever, but it just needs a little pinch to be completely persuasive.

[Firepower]

But in that case I still think the Sons need a well explained reason for offering themselves up to Slaanesh.

And, if I am to be bluntly honerst; a more interesting (perhaps more specific) goal than that of the Noise Marines ("we do it for the thrills" is such a sad excuse...).

Slaanesh may not take the pain and the senses away, but he does offer the choice of making the agony enjoyable. After the pain becomes intense enough, and they know there is no cure, that offer would look mighty tantalizing.

 

But "We do it for the thrills" is pretty much the whole backbone of Slaanesh. That's what he is, and that's what his followers are.

[Malthe]

But "We do it for the thrills" is pretty much the whole backbone of Slaanesh. That's what he is, and that's what his followers are.

I know, I just think he could (and should...) be much more. There's nothing really repellent about doing something because you enjoy it, if it doesn't hurt anyone else. And Slaanesh should, more so than any other of the Ruinous Powers, be repellent.

Slaanesh is really about extreme egoism; putting your own (perverted) pleasure before any shred of loyalty, love or common sense.

He's the one who makes you miss your daughter's school-play ten days in a row because you really, really needed to meet up with your dealer, or mistress, or bar-buddies. He makes you forsake everything you love, for a ten minute joy ride.

They cruelty of Slaanesh, compared to the rest of the Chaos gods is that he makes you the bad guy, not him.

Sure Nurgle and Khorne makes you wipe out worlds, but usually they do so by threatening to shoot you through the kneecaps if you don't do as you're told.

With Slaanesh you do it because he might, just might, stroke your chin afterwards (and Tzeentch is just weird...).

At least that's how I picture it

Slaanesh may not take the pain and the senses away, but he does offer the choice of making the agony enjoyable. After the pain becomes intense enough, and they know there is no cure, that offer would look mighty tantalizing.

Perhaps this could be tied in to my ramblings above?

Slaanesh might offer them a brief moment of bliss for every temple to the God-Emperor burned? Or every truly devout slain, or for every man who saves himself before his family? Or have them addicted to the tears of mothers.

That way the chapter have to continuously work to replace their agony with pleasure, each time having to pay a little more for a little less.

Also I think it is more interesting to have them targeting something with a specific symbolic value, rather than simply pounce at every world they come across.

My problem with the Noise Marines is that they are basically just doing bad stuff for fun. They get high because they like it, not to avoid the downside, at least that is how they are often portrayed. I like a little more tragedy with my traitors

[Firepower]

The association with Slaanesh is much like one with a narcotic, in that it takes steadily more and more for you to achieve the same level of pleasure. With Noise Marines, they do what they do because they enjoy, but equally because the moments without all that chaos and stimulation is unbearable, in the same sense as withdrawal.

 

The same would apply to these guys. Slaanesh would turn pain to an enjoyable experience, but they would not be able to stop themselves with that. They would need to steadily turn up the stimulation to get the same satisfaction.

 

Some Slaaneshi folks are mentioned as having very esoteric pleasures, and Slaanesh does get off on things like that. So harvesting a thousand widow tears and injecting it into your eyeball would be something he likes, if largely just because it's new (Slaanesh loves new experiences), but between those moments of exceptionally specific indulgence would come the usual more 'basic' tendencies of blunt, overpowering stimuli.

 

But I think we should get off this topic of discussion for a little while. We've already hashed out a lot, gone in circles a few times, and more often than not just end up repeating the same ideas or perceptions back and forth with the tiniest differences.

 

There's still a lot of ground to cover with this Chapter aside from what they're like during and after the fall to Slaanesh.

 

~The original reasoning of their creation

~Their original mission

~Homeworld

~General Chapter culture

~Tactics

~Organization and its changes over time

Etc.

[Malthe]

You're absolutely right. We all seem to be agreeing on the current topic anyway, so changing it up would probably be a good idea :)

 

Regarding the reason of their creation; I thought the idea that they were made as an attempt to fix the Helix Lupus was quite sensible.

I can easily imagine the Magos Biologis of the AdMech being properly annoyed that they can't use their stores of Space Wolf gene-seed for anything. I can also easily imagine them deciding to improve it a little now that they finally have the opportunity. After all, why not crank up the already heightened senses of the Space Wolves, why not improve their regenerative abilities? Scientists have a habit of being ambitious.

 

I don't think the chapter needs an original mission beyond the universal "go somewhere and help out". Then again, I don't think any chapter does...

Maybe the AdMech would like them somewhere close so they can keep an eye on them? Depends on whether we want the relationship between the chapter and their creators to be important.

 

Since this article is going to be pretty complicated as it is, I suggest the easy route and have the chapter be fleet-based. Mostly because I don't have any ideas for a home world :P

 

I think I'll limit myself to these points for know. Already plenty to think about!

[Conn Eremon]

I don't think the chapter needs an original mission beyond the universal "go somewhere and help out". Then again, I don't think any chapter does...

 

I guess I always assumed differently. I always figured they gave them something, like a world or crusade. I know some fluff supports the homeworld one and FFG goes a lot further into individual specifics. Seems to me that once a Chapter is founded they do more than just tell them to do that thing you do and don't let the door hit you on the way out. I think an initial command to get the Chapter going is only natural.

[Firepower]

I believe the Chapter's mission is the prerogative of the original leadership, rather than their creators or parent Chapter.  But then there are exceptions, like how they hint at the founding of the Disciples of Caliban in the old DA dex (haven't read the new one).

 

Chapter founding details are fairly amorphous in official fluff, last I checked.

[Octavulg]

I figure they're either given a mission or a direction for their initial orders, but after that are basically free to do what they want (whether legally or just practically).

[Conn Eremon]

I figure they're either given a mission or a direction for their initial orders, but after that are basically free to do what they want (whether legally or just practically).

 

This is how I've always seen it. Hey, here's your world and, by extension, space to defend. Or Hey, here's a crusade you can join or enemy you can crush. What follows after is entirely up to the Chapter. Do they continue with the Crusading, becoming fleet-based, or do they confine themselves to a certain area? If not fleet-based, where does the world come from? Was it granted to them, having already passed the stringent tests I recall one source detailed, or did they claim one, and why did they claim that one? If they were granted a world, do they build a giant fortress-monastery and utilize it as their primary base and headquarters, or is it little more than a recruitment center and the Chapter transitions into a fleet-based one?

 

Or do we not bother explaining the why and simply state that it is?

 

Just to throw an idea out there, what about the last one? The Sons, upon their Founding, are granted a homeworld (where, by the way?). However, instead of utilizing it as their base of operations and crafting an impressive fortress-monastery, the Sons keep a minimal presence on the world. It's a recruitment center and little more, while the Chapter is otherwise fleet based. This prevents them from being fully free and adrift, able to wander anywhere at anytime, as it'd anchor them to a specific world to replenish losses.

 

If we do go that way, perhaps it'd be interesting to show a dichotomy between recruits taken from the homeworld and those who are voidborn, the children of the immense city-ships that would have more than a sizable population of Chapter serfs. Perhaps a lowborn/highborn mentality, though it doesn't have to affect the Chapter's outlook. 

[Malthe]

Sort of a Night Lord Nostramo/not-Nostramo blood purity thing?

While I like the concept in some instances I must admit that I find it unlikely that a cursed space wolf successor, enthralled by by Slaanesh, would take the time to bother whether their recruits are from one place or another.

Maybe that sort of thing could work if the tension was between recruits inducted before or after their fall?

 

Also I imagine that it must be pretty hard for them to maintain a home world after going traitor (unless it's somewhere really remote), but that's not to say that they would never have had one.

I think it would be wise not to spend too much time on the home world of these ones, but again that's mostly because I'm for taking the easy route and have them be fleet-bound :P

 

I don't really think a home world would add a lot to these guys, but I think fleshing out their fleet-bound existence could be all kinds of cool.

Cursed, skeleton, werewolf pirates are just cooler when they're on a boat - especially a hugh gothic on that hosts entire colonies of slaves and workers :D

[Firepower]

On the division of home world versus crusade initiates, I would vote against it.  As we already have the Chapter splintering into Packs, another arbitrary division would just over complicate things- a problem we're already sort of skimming along.

 

The issue of a home world or lack thereof goes hand in hand with the culture of the Chapter.  Meaning, should we duplicate the Norse theme of the Wolves into the Sons?  If so, why, and how?  If they have a different style/culture, would it be a product of their chosen home world, or would it originate in whatever Chapter veterans might be assigned to getting the Chapter operational at its inception?  If they aren't Norse-ish, why would they have a Norse-ish name?  And on that final note, would the Wolves be aware of and involved in the Chapter's creation and operation?  It seems more likely that they would be very against it as a whole, given their grumpy hyper conservative and independent style.

[Conn Eremon]

Sorry, meant that the divide would be inherent only in the mortal populations, so we'd have more than a line detailing basic fact. Not that it should have an impact on the chapter.

[Marquise]

If I'm correct, the founding of a chapter goes something like this: Lords of Terra call for new chapter; Ad Mech use gene-seed from a certain Chapter which is implanted into suitable recruits; the recruits are trained by veterans from an active chapter.

 

With that being said, who becomes the new Chapter's ChapterMaster? Is it one of the veterans from an active Chapter that do the training or is it the most senior and capable of the newly created marines? The reason I'm asking is that I can't find any info about that and would like to know before delving in with my thoughts as I always assumed the new Chapter's Chapter Master named the chapter.

[Conn Eremon]

Deathwatch's Rites of Battle goes a bit more deeply into it, though many are divided on whether it can be considered canon or not.

 

There is a training cadre utilized from an already created Chapter, probably one well trusted, that is given the choice of leaving the new Chapter for their old one or remaining behind to be its first Chapter Master and Captains. To me, that sounds like they don't for as long as they have a training cadre. When the training is over and the Chapter is good enough to be on its own, the first Chapter Master is either the leader of the trainers that remain behind, or one raised from within the new Chapter. However, I don't know the scale of time used. How long does the training last? Until it's fully battle-ready, when it reaches that 1,000 manned limit or is it whenever those in charge deem it so?

 

Deathwatch's Rites of Battle says this about a Chapter getting its name:

 

 

 

There are many ways in which a new Chapter might be granted its title. Sometimes the High Lords of Terra bestow the name at the Chapter’s Founding, linking it to some sacred duty the Chapter must perform, as is the case with the Praetors (meaning “guardians”) of Orpheus. In other cases the Chapter may earn its name in the years following its founding, fighting battle after battle until an appropriate title presents itself.

 

So it could be an immediate thing or it could be something that takes some time.

 

So it could be

A) Congratulations, you're going to help us create the Sons of uhh . . . I forget Chapter!

B) Now that we know you're going to lead this newborn Chapter, whatcha gonna call it?

or C) After decades of war, we have our name. We shall be the Sons of SomethingOrOther.

 

Considering we're calling ourselves the Sons, I'd vote for B or C. Who we're the sons of should be an established person, chosen by the Chapter and not the High Lords or AdMech or whoever. Either it's someone important to the Chapter's lineage through the Space Wolves or whoever the first officers are, as it would be in the case of B, or it's someone who stood head and shoulders above the rest during the Chapter's earliest years, as it would be in C. 

[Octavulg]

The new Chapter Master selects the name and heraldry (Insignium Astartes). The colors are assigned (the Mentors were assigned the colors and number of the Star Scorpions).

 

1000 sets of organs are created. There's some evidence that there's a process of implantation and oversight, and that the Chapter Master is from the new chapter (the Flame Falcons worked that way). However, having it be a veteran of another chapter would seem to make more sense, and there's not really evidence against that.

 

I've always assumed they send the training cadre off with the geneseed and some well wishes, and that the cadre become the senior officers of the new chapter.

 

EDIT:

 

The Cursed Founding are unique, though. We KNOW the Flame Falcons didn't have their cadre stay. I also don't think we need to explain the name right now. Something will likely crop up organically.

[Gripharius]

I know that this thread has just narrowly missed a potential derailment, but I just have to return to the subject of the Chapter's curse.

 

First of all, I have to say that the idea of the AdMech "fixing" the SW gene-seed to retain the heightened senses while eliminating the Wulfen, thereby "cursing" the Chapter to get gradually more and more super-sensitive to the point of overload, along with the concept of promised salvation that ultimately results in an absolute lack of all sensation, is truly brilliant. It is like a classic Greek tragic flaw arc, with a be-careful-what-you-wish-for ironic twist.

 

I think this can be accomplished without the Slaanesh issues, however, if you consider the "macro-Curse" to the Chapter itself (credit to Octa for the macro-Curse concept).

 

What I mean is this: the heightened senses curse is a curse that affects the marines of the Chapter individually -- at different times, at different rates of degeneration, randomly. Eventually, an individual marine's senses becomes so heightened -- the sound of his own hearts beating in his chest is agony, he can feel his blood rushing raw through his veins, every breath that he takes is like swallowing searing hot razors -- that he goes insane, and his entire existent is reduced to curling up in a fetal position and screaming in endless, unbearable pain.

 

Pain-relieving drugs would work at first, but eventually the heightened senses would become so powerful that nothing short of death or unconsciousness would stop the marine from an existence of perpetual, all-consuming pain. Even sensations felt while asleep become over-stimulating and painful such that the Chapter's apothecaries begin to believe that even unconsciousness only stops the physical, conscious sensation of pain, and that a marine continues to suffer over-stimulation while unconscious -- because his ears still detect sounds, his skin still registers touch, etc.

 

But the "macro-Curse" is not so much what the individual marine goes through but how the Curse affects the Chapter itself. In this case, the degenerative nature of the Curse gradually increases with respect to the Chapter as a whole. At first, the number of marines affected is relatively low, and usually its only after a couple centuries of life. Eventually, however, the incidents of overload come increasingly more often, and begin to affect the marines at younger and younger ages. The marines that have not gotten to the point of sensory overload realize that the Chapter as a whole is burning out, and that eventually all of them will be dead or incapacitated by over-stimulation.

 

Naturally, the Chapter begins seeking out a solution. They go to the AdMech, who begins dissecting them, and wants to put bionics in their brains or some other suitably mechanical fix. The Inquisition gets interested and becomes "concerned" about the signs of increasing madness among the Chapter. The other Astartes distance themselves, refusing to go into battle with the Cursed Chapter. And so forth.

 

In short, all normal, Imperial avenues start to close off to them, and they are forced to seek other solutions as they grow more and more desperate. The AdMech and the Inquisition start hounding them. They are forced to abandon their homeworld because their recruiting base becomes terrified of the sensory madness. Their crusade to find a cure while eluding the Inquisition becomes a desperate flight from Imperial authorities...

 

Then, at the brink of complete collapse, the sensory overload increasing across the Chapter at a daily rate, the Inquisition at their throats, all Imperial doors shut... That's when salvation presents itself. The true source of the salvation doesn't matter -- Chaos Undivided, the ubiquitous Ruinous Powers, an unnamed demon-lord -- whatever, ambiguity might be good here. Regardless, some harbinger of salvation appears to them at this moment of absolute crisis, maybe even in the guise of Russ himself, and offers them relief from all their suffering as long as they swear fealty to him/it, or do something else that essentially damns the Chapter to Chaos eternally. With no other alternative, they do.

 

Then the ironic twist: the cure is worse than the curse. The salvation is a reduction of their senses to less than normal human standards. Their eyesight is terrible, their hearing worse, their sense of smell completely gone. They have trouble holding things because they can't feel them in their hands, etc. But the worst part is: they can no longer hunt. The Wulfen may be gone from them, but the underlying lupine nature of the SW gene-seed cannot be denied. At their core, they are hunters, predators, wolves.

 

Think of all the examples of those interred in Dreadnoughts and how they loathe the loss of sensation that being interred brings. Even non-SW Dreadnoughts lament their inability to feel the blood of their enemies splashing on them, the scent of burning flesh, etc. Imagine how much worse a loss of sensation would be for a SW, a hunter of the wild, used to having their nostrils filled with the fear of their enemies, tasting their terror in the air, etc.

 

The Chapter finds now that only in service to the Ruinous Powers are they able to recapture a hint of their beloved hunt, their lost sensations. This need not be a sensation-for-sensation's-sake Slaanesh thing. Perhaps they even retain some degree of loyalty to the Emperor in their hearts, but the need to hunt, the need to re-experience the feeling of being a predator, being a wolf, always overcomes that loyalty.

 

There are any number of ways it can go, depending on who or what you have behind the "cure" and to who or what they swear fealty. You could have different packs that are used and manipulated in different ways. Some packs might try to remain loyal, but always end up devolving to Chaos for the thrill of the hunt. Other packs might turn whole-heatedly to the Ruinous Powers, their hatred of the Imperium for making them what they are and turning its back on them overwhelming. Some packs could turn to Slaanesh, seeking sensation, but others might find the thrill of the hunt strongest in seeking blood for the Blood God.

 

Once they have sold their souls for the cure, then all bets are off and anything is on the table.

[Conn Eremon]

I like it. And I like the idea of pursuing multiple avenues and ideas, even if we only choose one. This is supposed to be an example, after all.

 

Technically, this patron doesn't have to lower the senses to below par. Even the senses of a normal Mortal, or Marines for that matter, could be comparatively seen as just as bad, after spending so much time being over-stimulated. The patron could fix the problem, but with their bodies so used to processing the extra stimuli, it'd be like being struck deaf and blind. They'd feel extremely weakened but still be a capable force. That said, it'd be appropriately Chaos-y for the patron to go too far.

 

Pretty much any deity or an unaligned source could be the patron. Nurgle promises to grant a gift that will deteriorate the senses, Slaanesh promises you'll start to enjoy it, Khorne promises you'll only ever care about the hunt from now on, and Tzeentch will have you so far in its debt you won't know what to do. An unaligned could do all of the above, or just do some warplulz.

[Octavulg]

Another thing springs to mind...

 

There are Cursed Founding Marines who aren't afflicted by the Chapter curse in the same way - they're basically normal, but also quite unstable. They could be the ones to sell out to Chaos, when the rest of the Chapter is reduced to catatonic maniacs who scream when a pin drops. Seeing their friends, their mentors, etc, all suffering - and then Slaanesh shows up and promises to make their friends happy again, or Nurgle promises to take their pain away...