++2014 Community IA Creation Project++ COMPLETE!

[Conn Eremon]

Another thing springs to mind...

 

There are Cursed Founding Marines who aren't afflicted by the Chapter curse in the same way - they're basically normal, but also quite unstable. They could be the ones to sell out to Chaos, when the rest of the Chapter is reduced to catatonic maniacs who scream when a pin drops. Seeing their friends, their mentors, etc, all suffering - and then Slaanesh shows up and promises to make their friends happy again, or Nurgle promises to take their pain away...

I'm . . . Not sure you're using 'catatonic' right. But some Nurgle Wolves would be cool.

[Octavulg]

Stupor-style catatonia, I'm thinking.

I'd still prefer Slaanesh. I am sick to death of rotting Marines and blood-crazed Marines and wildly mutated Marines. That, or I'm a hedonist.

[Firepower]

The one thing I would personally like to avoid is that typical fulcrum moment.  I find the best turns to Chaos are slow, insidious, and cancerous progressions rather than a pivotal moment where one Warp thing or another pops up with a contract in hand like 'Yo!'

 

That's why in the earlier loose outline I tried hard to point out how Slaanesh (or any god really) can play a role and tinker with anyone, even marines, before they are actually accepted or even noticed.  Chaos just needs a chink in the armor, a weakening in the resolve, and then it can begin to worm its way in.  Those powers would only make themselves known once they were sure their mortal playthings had no other choice than to give them full reign.

 

The difference I'm trying to point out is between an unfortunate series of events that leads them to spontaneously turn to a Chaos god which has oh so patiently just been watching and waiting for an offer, versus an unfortunate series of events in which Chaos has been playing a backstage role from the first signs of trouble.

 

Also, since it seems to have slipped out from the equation in recent posts, is the metabolism thing staying or going?  

 

Also also, I vote for Slaanesh as well.  :)

[Malthe]

I really like the metabolism bit, so i'm all in favor of keeping it :)
And I must admit that I'd like to stick with Slaanesh as well. I feel he is rarely used which is a real shame.

I am kind of picturing these chaps as werewolf versions of skeleton Captain Barbossa wearing purple hats... And loving it!

 

Also I think it would be cool to have them quite feral. I'd say the Space Wolves are one of those chapters where it's in their blood (well, gene-seed) and not just in the recruits.

 

With that out of the way..:

Maybe it's time to think a some more about the early days of the chapter.
We've talked a little about the AdMech trying to improve the Space Wolves gene-seed and about the formalities of a founding.

But a lot is still undecided. Who supplied the members of the training cadre, did they do anything of note in the early days, fleet or home world, etc.?

Also I'd might be cool to start brainstorming notewhorty characters. Chapter masters and what not.

 

What do you guys think?

[Firepower]

Well, in terms of their early days, I would propose something like so:

 

The AdMech tinkered with the Wolves gene-seed to lose the 'tude and Wulfen issues but keep the benefits of the gene-seed; heightened senses, resistance to corruption, and an utterly ruthless commitment to any given mission.

 

It then follows that they would choose a very orderly, codex adherent Chapter to tutor the fledgling Chapter, to rope in any lingering behavioral issues with stern structure.  Maybe the Ultramarines or Imperial Fists, or one of their successors.  They almost certainly wouldn't choose the Wolves themselves if the premise were true.

 

For a Chapter culture, something feral but reserved.  Kinda hard to mix the two, admittedly.  Perhaps a sort of primitive Hunstman culture.  A very stern structure, punishing of prideful or boasting behavior (some fellow anthropologists' ears should be perking up).  The closest they may come to that sort of behavior would be the hides and trophies of slain enemies they wear.  Bob doesn't ever tell stories or brag about killing the Ork Warlord, because wearing its jaw on his pauldron is enough.

 

The Chapter gets along pretty well, but as the metabolic issues and sensory issues begin to wither the veteran leadership into ineffectiveness, the Chapter structure and culture slowly begins to degrade (maybe instinctively) into more of a collection of packs, lead by the strongest and most aggressive rather than the oldest and wisest. 

 

The curses get worse, and then the descent into Chaos (which we've spent a staggering amount of time focusing on) commences.

 

As for an original mission...I dunno. :teehee:

[Conn Eremon]

Sounds like huntsmen. Uncivilized aspects of an otherwise civilized world. Boasting isn't their style, but small personalized trophies are. Rustic outdoorsmen rather than barbaric tribesmen.

[Malthe]

I like it, huntsmen are cool :)

 

Perhaps have the training cadre be from the White Consuls or some such posterboys.

Trying their hardest to craft a codex chapter without the slightest hope og success... Poor buggers.

[Firepower]

Sounds like huntsmen. Uncivilized aspects of an otherwise civilized world. Boasting isn't their style, but small personalized trophies are. Rustic outdoorsmen rather than barbaric tribesmen.

 

Sounds about right (and said better than I had said it).  I kind of see a North American frontiersman aesthetic and theme to their early life as a Chapter, with a few necessary deviations- strict organization and a slightly lessened independent streak, namely.

 

As things deteriorate into packs, they come to resemble more of a savage than 'rustic outdoorsman' group.  And then with Slaanesh...well, human skin, tentacles, clattering vials of who knows what, the usual.  Perhaps with some perverse sort of trophy fetish hung over from their early customs...

[Octavulg]

I kind of liked them being the darker side of the Viking coin. More cowardly raiders than brash heroes.

[Firepower]

I kind of liked them being the darker side of the Viking coin. More cowardly raiders than brash heroes.

From the outset, or as the Chapter begins to devolve? I just don't see how the former could happen without the direct influence and cooperation of the Wolves in a way that wasn't just uninspiring coincidence.

When they begin to devolve and/or after learning of their Chapter's true roots (assuming they were lied to or simply not told from the outset), a cowardly raider and even Viking theme makes sense- perhaps they even take up the Sons name at that point.

But so far I can't recall a suggestion as to why they should be Vikings other than their genetic linkage to the Wolves. Lots of stuff is crammed into that gene-seed, but it doesn't transplant the primogenitor's culture as well.

If they learn that culture from the Wolves themselves...well, I can't think of a way so far that the Wolves would be cool with all this and involved from the get go.

Edit- As far as brash heroes, I was suggesting brash, but never said heroes I would imagine quite the opposite with the elders' wisdom and guidance (and occasional browbeating) going unheard as the gene-seed's flaws take them. Brash, reckless survivalists, but not heroes. Again, in my mind this would be after the flaw became a real issue, not before.

[Conn Eremon]

Thematically, you can tie in the historical references of the Viking discovery of North America. Perhaps have the more overt N. American elements be related to their homeworld, while the Sons are a melting pot of the two. The 'cowardly raiders' bit could be related to their decline and degeneration, as their fall becomes more pronounced. Beforehand, they can be the frontiersmen, bravely diving forth into untamed wilds, bringing civilization to uncivilized worlds. Themselves a mixture of the two. They could be the literal frontiersmen, far out on the Imperium's edge.

 

Perhaps instead of trophies, furs. A tossed pelt across a shoulder pad, or a small one tied to their belts. To be replaced with flayed skin after their fall.

[Octavulg]

Firepower

Quote

Edit- As far as brash heroes, I was suggesting brash, but never said heroes smile.png I would imagine quite the opposite with the elders' wisdom and guidance (and occasional browbeating) going unheard as the gene-seed's flaws take them. Brash, reckless survivalists, but not heroes. Again, in my mind this would be after the flaw became a real issue, not before.

As in "brash heroes" is the side the Wolves occupy. Jesus, people, not everything I say is directly tied to something you said.

I like the Viking culture just because it lets us draw more parallels with the Space Wolves. Space Marines recruit from so many feral/feudal worlds, another world with some resemblance to Fenris/Scandinavia is hardly that surprising.

[Firepower]

Firepower

Quote

Edit- As far as brash heroes, I was suggesting brash, but never said heroes smile.png I would imagine quite the opposite with the elders' wisdom and guidance (and occasional browbeating) going unheard as the gene-seed's flaws take them. Brash, reckless survivalists, but not heroes. Again, in my mind this would be after the flaw became a real issue, not before.

As in "brash heroes" is the side the Wolves occupy. Jesus, people, not everything I say is directly tied to something you said.

I like the Viking culture just because it lets us draw more parallels with the Space Wolves. Space Marines recruit from so many feral/feudal worlds, another world with some resemblance to Fenris/Scandinavia is hardly that surprising.

Hey, not my fault you have lousy communication skills

But I personally feel the idea of just finding another loosely Fenrisian/Scandinavian culture to draw from totally by coincidence just smells like lazy writing. Things that affect the character of an IA to that degree need more than an "As fate would have it" reasoning. It doesn't have to be particularly elaborate, diabolical, circuitous or complex, but it should have a good reason.

And yes, I realize that you didn't explicitly say it should be an 'as fate would have it' occurrence, but I wanted to throw that concern out there preemptively

[Gripharius]

Why not just have the Administratum or the AdMech choose the first initiates from a Fenris-like world on purpose. If they are trying to make "better" Space Wolves, it would make sense that they would pick recruits from a Fenris-like world. Even more, they might pick out a world with a culture like Fenris but also a culture that doesn't include the fierce independence and honor tenets that are so prevalent on Fenris.

 

So, much as they want to keep the "good" things about SW gene-seed and omit the "bad" things, they would pick initiates for the gene-seed development and first recruits from a world/culture that has the "good" aspects of Fenris and none of the "bad" world/culture traits.

[Conn Eremon]

Seems overly extensive. Couldn't they find any world that could provide the wanted traits, without bothering to find one that's Fenris-like, to the same effect? It's not as if the Fenrisian culture would be the sole source for the positive elements in the Wolves, that they'd need to find another one just like it to provide the same traits.

 

Personally, I like the idea of a New World type homeworld.

[Octavulg]

You can have a very Viking home world without it being Fenris. Easily so, in fact. Not giving everyone Scandinavian names and yammering about sagas would do it.

[Gripharius]

I was trying to answer the question of how to do a Fenris-like world without it being just coincidence or something.

 

I would prefer a non-Fris world too.

 

I think a New World kind of thing could work. Did anyone see the movie Pathfinder? That was sort of Viking and Native American feel to it. Very gritty and dark, too.

[Firepower]

I think a New World kind of thing could work. Did anyone see the movie Pathfinder? That was sort of Viking and Native American feel to it. Very gritty and dark, too.

Just the trailer for that movie made The Last Samurai look like a level headed documentary, and the idea of a Jamaican bobsled team seem totally natural. I can only suspend disbelief so much.

But anyway, that is an interesting possibility. A mix of Viking-ish aesthetic and Native American aesthetic. Pelts, chainmail, feathers, talismans...actually, in terms of aesthetics and to some extent culture, the two are already vaguely similar. The only very different features (off the top of my head) are in religion and seafaring...hm. Could be a good path to pursue.

Oct, since you seem to be the one really pushing for the idea of wolfiness, care to weigh in on the method of their founding and/or make a few suggestions as to how this all comes about?

[Gripharius]

At no point did I suggest there was any historical or factual accuracy to that movie, lol.

[Firepower]

Never said that you did :)  That was just my sanctimonious way of saying 'No, I did not see that movie.'  :teehee:

[Malthe]

I don't think it's do much of a stretch to have the Sons be attracted to a home world like the one you're describing of their own volition. They come across it and feel connected enough to stay.

 

I like the New Foundland inspiration by the way. There's is something deliciously appropriate about having a Space Wolves successor finding the new world. Then again, I'm a dane and we (for some reason) pride ourself on being the guys who really discorvered the Americas, so it might just be cultural vanity :P

[Malthe]

So, erh, anyone still on for this?

I really liked where it seemed to be going :)

[Conn Eremon]

Yes.

 

Also, I hate the mobile site.

[Firepower]

We seemed to be going in circles for the last couple of pages if memory serves (can't stop to go back and re-read just now).  It's hard to know how to proceed when there's no official 'signing off' on a section or idea by the community- it's sort of like getting caught in a perpetual brainstorming session.

 

But I'll be happy to put my nose back to the grindstone.

[Conn Eremon]

It's going to happen when it's a communal effort, with nobody riding the captain's chair. Things will come up in which there is either disagreement or multiple choices supported.

 

Outside of putting someone in that chair, I'd advocate we don't force ourselves to make a final decision. When we get into this situation, we branch out. Explore one route, then the other. Though we are devising an IA here, and therefore should eventually decide on a single route, the primary purpose of the thread is to explore different options. Right? As far as I'm thinking, exploring multiple routes whenever any contributors divide on something could really aid that purpose. For instance, we could have, and still can, explore a Loyalist variation of the Sons, or a different deity, or Chaos Undecided. Most recently, if I remember correctly, we weren't sure which world to give the Sons. A New World themed world or one even more thematically Viking than Fenris. Why don't we pick one for now, either one, and explore it until we feel it's been properly fleshed out. Then we can pick the other back up and begin exploring it. By the end of the whole thing, we can tie the Chapter up more neatly. Until then, we explore multiple options. And doing so may help us decide on matters, as we'll be able to see where each idea could lead. 

 

I think it'd be a convoluted but fun solution.

 

That's what I had meant to post yesterday, when the mobile site ate my post.