++2014 Community IA Creation Project++ COMPLETE!

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

The new Chapter Master selects the name and heraldry (Insignium Astartes). The colors are assigned (the Mentors were assigned the colors and number of the Star Scorpions).

1000 sets of organs are created. There's some evidence that there's a process of implantation and oversight, and that the Chapter Master is from the new chapter (the Flame Falcons worked that way). However, having it be a veteran of another chapter would seem to make more sense, and there's not really evidence against that.

I've always assumed they send the training cadre off with the geneseed and some well wishes, and that the cadre become the senior officers of the new chapter.

EDIT:

The Cursed Founding are unique, though. We KNOW the Flame Falcons didn't have their cadre stay. I also don't think we need to explain the name right now. Something will likely crop up organically.

im actually really glad you brought that up. its good to remind those of us doing DIYs of how chapters are usually created. i almost forgot that bit about the chapter master myself

[Knurd]

Phew, finally done with the reading. I like this idea but it might be easier to follow if maybe the first post had some of the main ideas that are being tossed around. 

 

I like the idea of the new world and having them be huntsman. Maybe we can make it so one of their companies falls to Chaos instead of the whole Chapter. You can make it so that the Company's treachery is wake up call to the path they're heading down.

 

Also the whole 'make them more controllable' reminded me of the movie Serenity. The planet that they were trying to make more controllable eventually stopped doing everything but a percent of the population became the reavers, blood thirsty savage creatures. The Chapter can be at less than full strength because a percentage of the recruits go berserk when the organ implantation process is complete. This would be in addition to whatever the long term effects are decided upon.

 

Just a thought.

[Conn Eremon]

Sadly, the topic creator has been offline for some months, which makes it difficult to edit the first post.

 

Those are some nice thoughts, though.

[Legate Bene Barek]

Hello everyone. I think firstly we should put ourselves in the role of the Chapter Master. Is the CM from the Space Wolves or more likely from another Chapter..say the Templars. As a CM you would be getting bits of information as time went on about the other Chapters of your founding. You may even be in vommunication with your old CM. What would you be thinking...all the information coming in suggests your founding is cursed, maybe other Chapters are becoming hostile with yours. The Inquisition is requesting your gene-seed be tested. All of this and maybe your chapter has not shown any sign of a curse. What would you be thinking, planning, doing? I think once we put ourselves in the role of CM alot of questions will answer themselves. Is the CM going to stay loyal to the chapter or the Imperium? Will he order a crusade to try and prove his chapter...or would he turn over the geneseed (or someone elses) to the Inquisition? So fellow BandC'ers...what would you do as Chapter Master?

I would take my Chapter on crusade. Try my hardest to protect my chapter to at least wait and see if they were indeed cursed. If they were, i would order them all onto a planet and call for exterminatus. As long as they remained free of a curse we would remain on crusade until the Emperor himself claimed us all.

Another topic to consider would be...what would the battle brothers be thinking. Of course they would hear the rumors. They would see the hostility from other chapters, so what would the lonely battle brother think. Would he be scared of the curse, angry at having to prove their loyalty? Would they rally behind their CM, or be suspicious of him? Might they even plan to kill him and run from the Imperium?

I would be suspicious...after all he wouldnt have the curse (if any). He wouldnt have to answer to the Inquisition. We should be led by one of our own!

Anyways theres my two pences!

[Legate Bene Barek]

The fear, suspicion, and hatred from the Imperium and other marines would be enough to drive many a Chapters to go it alone. Who says there has to be a curse... the fear of it is enough to flesh out why the Chapter did what it did.

[Olis]

Hail brothers, for I have returned from the depthless warp (yes, you may check to see if I'm still me). After my extended absence, I have fallen somewhat behind on what I'm working here on B&C. A catch up is in order, I reckon. Anyone care to summarise our progress?

[Dosjetka]

HE LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVES! :D

[Firepower]

Hail brothers, for I have returned from the depthless warp (yes, you may check to see if I'm still me). After my extended absence, I have fallen somewhat behind on what I'm working here on B&C. A catch up is in order, I reckon. Anyone care to summarise our progress?

Define "progress."

[Olis]

Hmm. This is going to have to go on the shelf, I think, unless anyone fancies taking up the reins for now... 

[Firepower]

I would, but I have some issues with it. It's hard to make a solid 'final decision' process. For instance, we discussed the same topic for something like 5 pages, sometimes with wild divergences in opinion, approach and direction, but after those 5 pages there was no real way to stick a pin in it and say 'OK, so this is the direction/root/idea we're going with.' It would be especially hard to do this impartially, with a small pool of writers. With a large number, it's easy to see which way the wind is blowing and see the consensus. If you have only 4 or 5 people voicing opinions, unless there is a 3 to 4 majority on an idea, how does one make a final call?

So really, the question comes down to how reins are to be defined in theory, and how it may or may not work out in practice. If we can come up with an answer that is both effective and equitable, sure, I'd take on the job. Assuming people were comfortable with that notion, of course.

[Hyaenidae]

This project needs a boss /officer /decision maker. Not just a guy that says "chuck ideas, guys! We'll make it work!", but instead someone who is willing to set deadlines, shotgun bad ideas, and make a damn decison on which way to go.

 

If you guys don't, this thread will die like so many other community IA's have; through oversaturation of ideas, and everyone wanting to make everyone happy, instead of someone being willing to say, "no, we're doing it like this.", and generally putting their foot down

 

My .02 cents.

[Firepower]

This project needs a boss /officer /decision maker. Not just a guy that says "chuck ideas, guys! We'll make it work!", but instead someone who is willing to set deadlines, shotgun bad ideas, and make a damn decison on which way to go.

 

If you guys don't, this thread will die like so many other community IA's have; through oversaturation of ideas, and everyone wanting to make everyone happy, instead of someone being willing to say, "no, we're doing it like this.", and generally putting their foot down

 

My .02 cents.

 

Pretty much what I was driving at, yeah.  If a bit more delicately, anyway :lol:

[Conn Eremon]

I would love coming back to this project, for the very selfish purpose of stealing ideas for my own DIY. I agree that we need either someone with the authoritative power to say "We go with this." or to wait for more people to be included to be able to more easily read popular trends. The latter is likely never going to happen. So I'd recommend the former.

 

Personally, I'd prefer it if it was Olisredan, as he is OP and in general a good choice. Wouldn't necessarily have to be all that tough a job, just every now and then settle an argument with "Go with this."

 

 

That said, I still like my original idea from when this thing first quieted down. Since this project is not just to create a cool Space Wolf successor, but also to be a glimpse into the creative process in creating one, I would like it if we didn't "lock things down" but instead chose something to stick with for a time. I know the home world's theme was a stickler for a while, I think it would have been beneficial if we had picked one, ran with it for a while until it was "done," and then went back and picked up on the other ideas. Like a Choose Your Own Adventure book where you go back to a major plot point, make a new choice and keep reading. In the end, we would have something that might prove more beneficial to this thread's original purpose, as I understood it, than what we would otherwise end up with if we locked details down.

[Dosjetka]

...

What they said

EDIT: More seriously, I do agree that we should have a person at the head of the project to have the final word in decision making and the like. If we don't, discussions will go round and round, getting us nowhere. I'd also be fine with Olisredan taking up that position (if he wants/has the time to).

[Firepower]

I would love coming back to this project, for the very selfish purpose of stealing ideas for my own DIY. I agree that we need either someone with the authoritative power to say "We go with this." or to wait for more people to be included to be able to more easily read popular trends. The latter is likely never going to happen. So I'd recommend the former.

True, but it does say something rather positive that so many people are chiming in the moment there is activity in the thread again. So even if there isn't going to be a huge pool of authors, it does seem that we have a good stock of enthusiastic ones

[Conn Eremon]

Depends on the amount we are talking about. When I said I doubt the latter would ever happen, it's because I was thinking twenty to thirty active contributors. In reality, it'd probably be around five active, steady (and, as you say, enthusiastic) contributors like ourselves, and an equal or slightly bigger pool of temporary contributors. That will pop up and chime in every now and then. In that reality, I think a dictator might be necessary.

 

But then again, the Guilliman Heresy Project has examples of disagreements even with a dictator, and the Community Alternate Heresy Project is an example of how a group of ten active contributors can build an entire setting without a need for one(knock on wood). So what the hell do I know?

[Hyaenidae]

As long as the contributors can accept the word "No" with grace, then there shouldn't be a problem.

 

If they can't, being a part of a community project probably isn't for them.

 

 

 

@Firepower: If the Good Lord wanted me to be delicate, he wouldn't have blessed me with a NCO rank.   ;)

[Olis]

Well, I'll be damned. Okay. This'll have to go on my list of things to do. I'm not promising immediate action, but it looks like the shelf will have to wait.

[Legate Bene Barek]

I am available pretty much anytime 9 to 5 pacific. I can help with ideas or writing...even research. I would love to be a part of this project.

[Olis]

I am available pretty much anytime 9 to 5 pacific. I can help with ideas or writing...even research. I would love to be a part of this project.

 

Fair enough, brother. If that's the case, I suggest giving this topic a once over to familiarise yourself with what has come so far. :)

[Legate Bene Barek]

I am available pretty much anytime 9 to 5 pacific. I can help with ideas or writing...even research. I would love to be a part of this project.

Fair enough, brother. If that's the case, I suggest giving this topic a once over to familiarise yourself with what has come so far.

I have had so much free time I actually read all the posts. I posted earlier, Sept. with some thoughts. Which I still stand by! Thanks. Lets get writing!

[Olis]

Oh God-Emperor, reading all this felt like a giant tl;dr. It's my own fault for being absent for a few months.

Current cliff notes:

• Name: Sons of Sköll
• Heraldry: Black Jackal salient on a yellow(?) background
• Founding: 21st (Cursed) Founding
• Training Cadre: White Consuls(?)
• Theme: Viking/huntsmen
• Homeworld: None. Fleet based.
• Culture: Pre-degeneration; Codex standard. Post-degeneration; Pack mentality based upon 'alpha' status (younger and stronger is better)
• Affiliation: Traitoris Extremis (Slaanesh)
• Gene Curse resulting from tampering with gene seed/Canis Helix;

As for the actual effects, we can either go with:

OPTION A

The Hungry, Hungry Wolves

Pros: Skin calcification, heightened agression

Cons: Loss of acute senses, heightened metabolism (acute hunger and wasting away)

Or:

OPTION B

I can hear purple!

Pros: Heightened senses

Cons: Heightened metabolism (acute hunger and wasting away)

Bearing in mind most of the discussion up to now leans more towards option B whereas most of the initial/early thoughts point to option A.

Selected musings:

I have a mental image of after-battle feasts aboard the strike cruiser in orbit or at the fortress monastery. Come to think of it... if they had a high metabolism, they'd want to feast quite often...

As the marine ages the quicker the metabolism becoming eventually turning into a kind of wasting sickness and turning a marine into a bed ridden wreck doomed to die not fulufilling his duty[...] they would like to die a death worthy of rememberance and are more prone to taking chances on the field of battle knowning what is in store for them as they age,

To clarify the idea I was making, perhaps the intent of the tampering of the Space Wolf gene-seed is to remove the Canis Helix's flaws, while keeping its virtues. In other words, lose the wulfen while keeping the wolf-like senses. That's the intent, though obviously it'd be far too over the top to have them succeed at it. The heightened metabolism could be a byproduct, issued on by the larger amount of energy the tweaked Astartes physiology would burn in a shorter period of time. It'd be the first known flaw. The second known flaw is that this doesn't exactly stabilize. It doesn't balance out. As the Marines age, their senses heighten even further and their bodies burn even more energy in lockstep with the senses.

Plus, then you get skeletal giants crazed with supernatural Chaos hunger who twitch when a pin drops.

We have a Cursed Founding and a Space Wolf successor, which in itself is pretty odd. We have metabolic overdrive that makes the marines burn away into husks. We have senses that grow so strong as to find a drop of rain agonizing. We have the Chapter breaking down into packs when the eldest become too pained and weak to guide them.

Naturally, the Chapter begins seeking out a solution. They go to the AdMech, who begins dissecting them, and wants to put bionics in their brains or some other suitably mechanical fix. The Inquisition gets interested and becomes "concerned" about the signs of increasing madness among the Chapter. The other Astartes distance themselves, refusing to go into battle with the Cursed Chapter. And so forth.

In short, all normal, Imperial avenues start to close off to them, and they are forced to seek other solutions as they grow more and more desperate. The AdMech and the Inquisition start hounding them[...] Their crusade to find a cure while eluding the Inquisition becomes a desperate flight from Imperial authorities...

Then, at the brink of complete collapse, the sensory overload increasing across the Chapter at a daily rate, the Inquisition at their throats, all Imperial doors shut... That's when salvation presents itself. The true source of the salvation doesn't matter -- Chaos Undivided, the ubiquitous Ruinous Powers, an unnamed demon-lord -- whatever, ambiguity might be good here. Regardless, some harbinger of salvation appears to them at this moment of absolute crisis, maybe even in the guise of Russ himself, and offers them relief from all their suffering as long as they swear fealty to him/it, or do something else that essentially damns the Chapter to Chaos eternally. With no other alternative, they do.

Then the ironic twist: the cure is worse than the curse. The salvation is a reduction of their senses to less than normal human standards. Their eyesight is terrible, their hearing worse, their sense of smell completely gone. They have trouble holding things because they can't feel them in their hands, etc. But the worst part is: they can no longer hunt. The Wulfen may be gone from them, but the underlying lupine nature of the SW gene-seed cannot be denied. At their core, they are hunters, predators, wolves.

Think of all the examples of those interred in Dreadnoughts and how they loathe the loss of sensation that being interred brings. Even non-SW Dreadnoughts lament their inability to feel the blood of their enemies splashing on them, the scent of burning flesh, etc. Imagine how much worse a loss of sensation would be for a SW, a hunter of the wild, used to having their nostrils filled with the fear of their enemies, tasting their terror in the air, etc.

The Chapter finds now that only in service to the Ruinous Powers are they able to recapture a hint of their beloved hunt, their lost sensations. This need not be a sensation-for-sensation's-sake Slaanesh thing. Perhaps they even retain some degree of loyalty to the Emperor in their hearts, but the need to hunt, the need to re-experience the feeling of being a predator, being a wolf, always overcomes that loyalty.

There are any number of ways it can go, depending on who or what you have behind the "cure" and to who or what they swear fealty. You could have different packs that are used and manipulated in different ways. Some packs might try to remain loyal, but always end up devolving to Chaos for the thrill of the hunt. Other packs might turn whole-heatedly to the Ruinous Powers, their hatred of the Imperium for making them what they are and turning its back on them overwhelming. Some packs could turn to Slaanesh, seeking sensation, but others might find the thrill of the hunt strongest in seeking blood for the Blood God.

Once they have sold their souls for the cure, then all bets are off and anything is on the table.

There are Cursed Founding Marines who aren't afflicted by the Chapter curse in the same way - they're basically normal, but also quite unstable. They could be the ones to sell out to Chaos, when the rest of the Chapter is reduced to catatonic maniacs who scream when a pin drops. Seeing their friends, their mentors, etc, all suffering - and then Slaanesh shows up and promises to make their friends happy again, or Nurgle promises to take their pain away...

Provided we can nail down what we've got atm, then we can expand on areas we haven't yet touched. Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

[Conn Eremon]

I'm all for continuing with Option B. It was, I felt, a continuation, expansion and improvement on Option A.

 

I think one of the things we had gotten divided on is how the fall occurs. We have them fight it, then give in to it. Or we have them fight it, lose it, then crave it back. Right? If I recall correctly, that was the two things. When loyal, they fought against their curse and tried to save themselves. Failing that, they turned to Slaanesh. What happened then we got divided on, again if I recall correctly. Either Slaanesh, instead of fixing them, granted them the ability to enjoy it, or Slaanesh did 'fix' it, but its absence left an aching hole in them that they tried in vain to fill.

 

In other words, do we want Marines that go:

"OH DEAR GODS, YESSSS. MAKE THE WATER DRIP AGAIN."

or

"I. FEEL. NOTHING. GIVE ME SOMETHING TO FEEL. GIVE ME SOMETHING TO FEEL."

[Dosjetka]

In other words, do we want Marines that go:

"OH DEAR GODS, YESSSS. MAKE THE WATER DRIP AGAIN."

or

"I. FEEL. NOTHING. GIVE ME SOMETHING TO FEEL. GIVE ME SOMETHING TO FEEL."

That first one sounds strangely appealing :teehee:

[Olis]

In other words, do we want Marines that go:

"OH DEAR GODS, YESSSS. MAKE THE WATER DRIP AGAIN."

or

"I. FEEL. NOTHING. GIVE ME SOMETHING TO FEEL. GIVE ME SOMETHING TO FEEL."

 

As Malthe has mentioned previously (or at least I think it was Malthe), giving these traitors drive is essential. Much as I like the sound of the former, the latter makes more sense.