Ravenwing Attack Bike Squadron

[Chaplain Killmer]

Hello,

 

I was always wondering why the ravenwing can't field Attack Bike Squadrons. I was takling to my friends and they would allow me to use them - would that be beardy - is there any reason why we don't have them?

 

Greetings

[facmanpob]

Err, the simplest answer I think is that its a game mechanic way of making the Ravenwing different to the White Scars or any other Marine Chapter.

[Chaplain Killmer]

But it would not be some balancing issue?

[Master Avoghai]

More a codex structure balancing issue than a game balancing issue.

If the codex allow you to field Independant AB through RAS why would you need AB squadrons?

I know the same thing could be said for LS, but dunno... The fact they can bear 2 HW and are vehicles make me consider their status differently.

[Raven of the Wing]

_{someone can correct me if im wrong, but im sure we used to be able to maybe 3rd or 4th edition, not sure.}

_{as for the do you want to feild AB squadrens, thats another thing all together.}

 

_{after seeing my lone AB go down in a bright green necron deathray thingy,}

_{I lost a VP over a 55pt 2w model, with another 4 t% wounds, it makes a unit, much more survivable.}

[facmanpob]

_{someone can correct me if im wrong, but im sure we used to be able to maybe 3rd or 4th edition, not sure.}

_{as for the do you want to feild AB squadrens, thats another thing all together.}

_{after seeing my lone AB go down in a bright green necron deathray thingy,}

_{I lost a VP over a 55pt 2w model, with another 4 t% wounds, it makes a unit, much more survivable.}

Font fail!

I'd put your attack bikes into reserve and outflank them..... protects them from giving up First Blood and worries the enemy no end!

Edit - It was in 2nd Ed Angels of Death iirc. Definitely not 4th Ed, dunno about 3rd.

[Master Avoghai]

Yup we had the AB squadron in 3rd too. But just because the concept of RAS didn't exist yet.

[Boniface]

I'm sure they could have attack bike squadrons in the last codex.

 

Only issue with outflanking them is (as I understand it) the whole 6 other guys of the unit have to be outflanking too and the land speeder. Not great if you didn't want to outflank. Plus I totally hate the new rules regarding reserves used to be able to put your whole army in reserve and go second.

2 turns of not being shot gives the enemy time to move about. You could then strike in where you wanted to and overrun prime units.

 

Sadly the attack bike in this codex is an easy kill point. It must deploy with the unit as a whole then act independently from then on. so no reserves unless you want the whole squad in reserve (which isn't necessarily a good thing).

 

Why we couldn't just have 10 man bike squads which could be split up and have like 4 special weapons or something i don't know.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong.

[Chaplain Killmer]

2nd edition had no attack bike squads and no org charts that we have today it was more like %ges for chars and so on. In 3 and 3.5 we got the attackbikes squadrons till that masterwork of JJ that made me vanilla for years.

[facmanpob]

I'm sure they could have attack bike squadrons in the last codex.

 

Only issue with outflanking them is (as I understand it) the whole 6 other guys of the unit have to be outflanking too and the land speeder. Not great if you didn't want to outflank. Plus I totally hate the new rules regarding reserves used to be able to put your whole army in reserve and go second.

2 turns of not being shot gives the enemy time to move about. You could then strike in where you wanted to and overrun prime units.

 

Sadly the attack bike in this codex is an easy kill point. It must deploy with the unit as a whole then act independently from then on. so no reserves unless you want the whole squad in reserve (which isn't necessarily a good thing).

 

Why we couldn't just have 10 man bike squads which could be split up and have like 4 special weapons or something i don't know.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong.

The Codex says that you purchase the RAS together, but after that the bikes, Speeder and Attack Bike are treated as individual units, so you can reserve them separately. It doesn't say they have to deploy together

 

EDIT - I have the digital version of the codex

[Isiah]

Nope, no AB squadrons in the last Codex either - in fact that was the one that introduced the 'new' RW AB squadron format.

 

I know (or think I remember <_<) that an AB squadron was one the of things we developed in our Community Codex - not taken up by GW obviously.

 

There's no point in asking why we currently can't take AB squadrons - we just can't and that's that.

 

An individual AB is just as likely to be overlooked as being not worth targeting by a whole enemy unit provided there are other juicier targets to hit.

 

Of course - if they are that difficult to field (individually) then just don't take them.

[Master Avoghai]

@Boniface.

You're wrong on 2 points :

 

1- there was no AB squadron in the previous codex.

2- you're not obliged to put your bikes in outflank if you decide to do so with your AB. It used to be the case with the previous codex, but it no longer is.

As specified in the RW combat squadron rules, the bikes and the AB are bought together and that's the only link they have. Except from their purchase they are totally Independant units hence can be deployed and kept in reserve separatly

[facmanpob]

2nd edition had no attack bike squads and no org charts that we have today it was more like %ges for chars and so on. In 3 and 3.5 we got the attackbikes squadrons till that masterwork of JJ that made me vanilla for years.

Actually, I have the 2nd ed codex in front of me and you could field Attack Bike Squadrons of between 1-3 Attack Bikes with TL Bolter and Multi-melta for 120 points per bike. You could also field Ravenwing Bike Squadrons of between 3 and 5 bikes for 55 points per model.

[Darkangeldentist]

Personally I feel the lack of attack bike squadrons is mostly a design decision rather than one of balance but for all our lone attack bikes are fragile and easy kill points in those missions that use them they are extremely potent and they have often won me games.

 

There is a balancing issue considering all the rules Ravenwing bikes benefit from. Were we able to field attack squadrons you could pretty much guarantee the destruction of any tank on the table considering the scout move and for a cost not much different from our regular bikers. (100pts for 3 wounds and 2 meltaguns or 110pts for 4 wounds and 2 multimeltas!) So one of the reasons for not allowing us attack bike squadrons is how to balance them against regular ravenwing. You could change some of their rules to represent the heavy platform but it's a weak line of reasoning. There is also the comparison to speeders which they will also tend to work out both more reliable and resilient than. I do not feel any of these choices as they stand currently is poorly priced or lacking so am happy with what we have.

[Brom MKIV]

I love the way our MMABs split off personally. Theres so many tricks you can pull with them its insane. Their fast, flexible, durable, expendable and threatening. As for first blood if you dont want to outflank them for whatever reason you can instead deploy them off in a corner. This is a trick I use and it works well. Scout + move + turbo puts them right back in the game and not many people will waste a more expensive unit to try and maneuver out of their way to get at the bike.

 

And just some reasons why I love my lone MMABs:

 

-its a 55 pt fast [often] scoring unit with a multi melta!

-if thats not enough its a scouting multi melta! 55 pts (formerly 50) can often wreck up to 275 pts of someones day.

-durable enough to assault and tie up fire base units indefinitely. And now with hit and run.

-super cheap way of altering your reserves count.

-able to seriously disrupt assault transports by parking right in front and shooting. If not destroyed the tank has the hard decision of tank shock and risk an auto hitting melta shot or swing wide around the bike (not always an option with terrain). Land raiders hate this btw.

-very cheap way to grab the relic first turn and turbo back 6" while the rest of your army focuses on killing. Even if it dies the relic is 30" from their side and closer to your own troops.

-the dakka banner lets it pour out 4 twin linked bolter shots plus a multi melta shot.

 

Anyway just a few reasons im happy with the way our attack bikes are designed slotted.

[ValourousHeart]

Something else to consider for the RW heavy armies out there... running your attack bikes together is better than a squadron.

 

2-3 indiviual attack bikes will kill the same amount as a 2-3 AB squadron but will have less to fear from return fire, unless they dedicate multiple units to take them down.