Mantras Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 So I had this idea: Ezekiel + 9 man assault squad who take a rhino instead of jump packs. Aim: Drive up as fast as possible to enemy HQ, shoot "Mind Worm" out of the access point, and then charge his leader. Marines will be WS6 because of the book of salvation, and with 3 attacks each. I am a total newb to PLAYING 40k (loved the fluff for years) so please let me know if this is good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Well, I think your goal would be better with a DWK, veteran or terminator squad, as they are tougher in CC than assault marines. Book of salvation only gives +1 WS too. you can't charge outof a rhino, but you can outof a land raider. mind-worm him, prescience your own squad, and then maybe use a telepathy power to screw him more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank05 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Maybe I'm missing something, but where are we getting the WS6 from? The Assault Marines are WS4 base. Otherwise it seems like a good idea, but you have to remember a few things: *A Rhino isn't an assault vehicle,so you'll have to wait a turn to assault after disembarking. *With the Jump Packs the Marines get Hammer of Wrath, giving them effectively 4 attacks. *Also, Jump Packs give the ability to re-roll charge distance if they weren't used in the movement phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Maybe he meant that Ez is weapon skill 6. Also you cant deepstrike ez with terminators, he has not terminator armor nor the squad can ride in a drop pod. The best use would be in a DW knight squad in LRC but that would be hilariusly expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 You would risk your transport being charged, as Mind Worm only has a 12" range and must be used in the Shooting Phase. To use the fire point for Mind Worm you would have to forego disembarking that turn, meaning you would have to wait two turns in order to charge (Use Mind Worm -> Disembark -> Charge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worloch Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Land Raider Redeemer (cheapest Landraider) + Ezekiel = 245+145 = 390 points 10 man Assault Squad = 170 points minimum 5 man DWK squad = 235 minimum Either way it will be expensive, but it could work, I think, in certain situations. 6" move and 6" disembark + 2d6" charge means 19" threat range, and the Land Raider can't really be ignored once it is in range with the Flamestorm Cannons. The assault squad is cheaper base,of course, but you're paying for jump packs you're not getting. On the other hand, you get 30 (3 per) attacks on the charge, at St 4 and AP - (and no Hammer of Wrath). The DWK squad is a bit more complex, as befits an elite choice. You'll get 12 attack at St 6 AP 4 or St 10 AP 2 (once per game), and 4 attacks at St 6 AP 3. The DWK certainly lend themselves to a hard target, as an enemy HQ would most likely be imbedded in, but if dealing with orks or IG for instance, the Assault squad may actually prove more advantageous. My biggest beef with Ezekiel is that he lacks both Eternal Warrior and an Invulnerable Save, making him rather fragile in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 For 10 points more than a bare bones 10 man Assault Squad, you can get a 10 man Vet Squad with the same weapons and an extra attack on each model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 I'm trying to find the way to best make use of Mind Worm, i think combined with the Pyshic shriek a turn later could devastate most squads. On the cost - assault marines are not paying for jump packs they can't use, as they get a free rhino for dropping them. I get the two turn thing, and obvs knights with a LR would be better, but trying to make a cheap gimmicky unit :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Simple. Assault squad plus zeke in a drop pod! Still the same turn of standing around, but no chance of getting blown up enroute (AV11)...and Zeke plus an assault squad dropping behind enemy lines is soooo potentially disruptive to the enemy's plans, while a rhino-load of high-value targets trying to punch through his front line is nothing but a gift! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 You can gate them too, he has access to the gate of infinity me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 yeah...but the drop pod is free, and the chance of a mishap is nil if you stay off the board edge. Dropping Zeke on the enemy warlord's head makes for a 100% chance of being in range for mind worm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 Hmm a drop pod is a really good idea. I already own the rhino you see, so was looking for a way of combining the stuff I already have in a cool way. When you use a drop pod, do you have to have the model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 nah, an appropriately sized template should please most opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 yeah...but the drop pod is free, and the chance of a mishap is nil if you stay off the board edge. Dropping Zeke on the enemy warlord's head makes for a 100% chance of being in range for mind worm! According to the new adepticon you can use the teleport hommer of belial for the gate of infinity nah, an appropriately sized template should please most opponents. Wouldnt be so sure. Lots of butt hurting out there. Do you know the old soda bottle solution? Hehehe. Depends on the sportsmanship levels of the other guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Aim: Drive up as fast as possible to enemy HQ, shoot "Mind Worm" out of the access point, and then charge his leader. Marines will be WS6 because of the book of salvation, and with 3 attacks each. I am a total newb to PLAYING 40k (loved the fluff for years) so please let me know if this is good or bad. Its bad because mind worm is just bad. The number of times you need to throw dice for that power is ridiculous. Psych test (if 5 or less on your test pick a model if not it was basically a wash), roll deny the witch, roll d3 shots, roll to hit, roll to wound, roll look out sir, roll any invulns.. Not likely to do much more than snipe a random rank and file guy at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I'm trying to find the way to best make use of Mind Worm, i think combined with the Pyshic shriek a turn later could devastate most squads. You use the highest Ld of the squad, so unless you are dealing with single model units Mind Worm doesn't really improve the effectiveness of Psychic Shriek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Aim: Drive up as fast as possible to enemy HQ, shoot "Mind Worm" out of the access point, and then charge his leader. Marines will be WS6 because of the book of salvation, and with 3 attacks each. I am a total newb to PLAYING 40k (loved the fluff for years) so please let me know if this is good or bad. Its bad because mind worm is just bad. The number of times you need to throw dice for that power is ridiculous. Psych test (if 5 or less on your test pick a model if not it was basically a wash), roll deny the witch, roll d3 shots, roll to hit, roll to wound, roll look out sir, roll any invulns.. Not likely to do much more than snipe a random rank and file guy at best. ...unless the "rank and file guys" in your enemy warlord's retinue aren't so rank-and-file...You can't name a member of a deathwing command squad that I wouldn't want to mind-worm-snipe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share Posted February 27, 2013 Plus, look at Mind Worm this way, if you Mind Worm a nice juicy HQ like Azrael (who the rest of the army MUST use the LD of) you significantly increase your chances of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 How much would Zeke be worth if he were a generic level 3 psycher with only two powers (i.e. take away mind worm, but don't replace it)? Okay, the difference is how much mind worm "costs." You wouldn't expect to pay for a lascannon and take down a shadowsword with it, would you? It could happen... Similarly, be happy if mind worm takes out any model worth more than 20 points, and ecstatic if it kills a termie or better. You don't take Zeke for mind worm...it's just an added bonus that's an absolute lock to kill something over the course of a game, with the potential to hit a yahtzee now and then (like the time my OH ]I[ L smacked eldrad with purgatus, or the time my TDA libby instagibbed a dreadknight with his force staff. Do you take a force staff for its ability to kill a monstrous creature with a 2+ save? Of course not, but fortune favors the bold. Drop-podding Zeke with a few carefully chosen powers (psychic shriek and prescience?), plus a fighty squad, behind enemy lines is still a fantastic idea, because it forces the enemy to deal with them in the time and place of your choosing, which is NOT part of his plan. It might be a good idea for Zeke not to be your warlord, though, because you need him, like the queen in chess, to be expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share Posted February 27, 2013 march10k, exactly. Add in that Zeke adds +1ws with 2+ save, I don't think you can build a better DA Libby, and Mind Worm is a nice add on. Just a quick rule check, if you cast Prescience, can you use the re rolls on your casting for Wind Worm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tancred Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 march10k, exactly. Add in that Zeke adds +1ws with 2+ save, I don't think you can build a better DA Libby, and Mind Worm is a nice add on. Just a quick rule check, if you cast Prescience, can you use the re rolls on your casting for Wind Worm? Sadly not as Prescience only allows re-rolls to hit not to everything. So you can use cast Prescience and then when shooting Mind Worm have a re-roll of 2+ with the D3 shots. I'm currently having to decide whether to take Zeke for all the mentioned reasons or save the points so I can have a level 2 Librarian with a PFG on one side of the board in a LRC and a techmarine on the other with PFG in a rhino with two vindicators. Lots of tanks with 4+ Inv is just so much fun :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Ok new new idea: Ezekiel in a Land Raider Crusader, with a Deathwing Command Squad (that Belial unlocks and Belial goes with the DWK's). The Command Squad has the SoD, giving the Hurricane Bolters 24 TL shots, and Zeke boosts them to WS5. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I would say take knights instead :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Ok new new idea: Ezekiel in a Land Raider Crusader, with a Deathwing Command Squad (that Belial unlocks and Belial goes with the DWK's). The Command Squad has the SoD, giving the Hurricane Bolters 24 TL shots, and Zeke boosts them to WS5. Thoughts? Too expensive for what you get...I mean...each shot only has a 1/9 chance of missing...you want to take zeke to change that to a 1/36 chance? For S4 shooting? I don't care how much shooting it is, it's not worth the price of Ezekiel! If you take him, give him prescience and psychic shriek, and stick him in a drop pod with either assault marines or an assaulty veteran squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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