How do you Run your Stromraven?

[Rommel44]

Hey mates, since its apparent that the GK's can't get the Stormtalon, I have started looking at the Stormraven a lot more and still debating on what I should do with them weapon-wise. Currently, I run a Mech-Heavy Warrior Acolyte list thanks to Coteaz, with multiple squads in Chimeras and Razorbacks w/TLLC's, so at the moment Im looking at a jack-of-all-trades Stromraven build. Currently, I know I want to run the Assult Cannon, as it is great against pretty much everything in the game, however Im debating on what weapon to run on the nose of the Stormraven, and if the Hurrican Bolters are worth taking in this case. Anyways, just want to hear how you guys run your Stormravens and what weapon-builds you have found successful in this current edition.

[Upstartes]

I like AsCannon with Psybolt ammo. Very good all-arounder. I run the missile launcher on the nose for longer range anti-air - plus, again, versatile. This is not cheap, however, so I leave the hurricanes off. It's not an efficient use of psybolt ammo, but this build has not let me down.

[Rommel44]

I like AsCannon with Psybolt ammo. Very good all-arounder. I run the missile launcher on the nose for longer range anti-air - plus, again, versatile. This is not cheap, however, so I leave the hurricanes off. It's not an efficient use of psybolt ammo, but this build has not let me down.

 

I have thought about the missle launcher up front for the versitility as well and have been tempted to try it. How well has it done against other flyers and how well has it done against various armies?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Twin lascannon and twin multi-melta. Sometimes I go twin plasma cannon for the turret, but always twin multi-melta on the nose gun. 

 

CML is terrible, a PsyDread is better. It's also quite pricey. 

 

You are better off keeping the Raven bare bones. It is already a pretty costly addition to your army. I'd avoid going anti-infantry guns, you should already have plenty such firepower. Knights lack dedicated anti-tank solutions, Raven provides a mobile platform with two of the best anti-tank guns in the game (las and melta). 

[number6]

I prefer the TLMM on the hull and TLLC on the turret, no other upgrades. Keeps it cheap as possible, and gives the GK a couple of weapon types that are otherwise not available save through allies. Long range and melta weapons are in short supply, and I don't like relying almost entirely on psycannons to deal with MCs and vehicles. Being able to reliably knock at least one flyer out of the sky when it shows up is definitely worthwhile. If you're lucky, you can even take two flyers out in one turn with clever positioning and Power of the Machine Spirit.

I myself did exactly that against Necrons in a tournament a little over a week ago. TLMM to the Doom Scythe: explosion! TLLC to a Night Scythe: explosion!

[Rommel44]

I have considered the Anti-Tank Gunboat as well since it is dirt cheap to field compared to the other builds, however I feel that it is too much of a single role. Now dont get me wrong, I know for a fact that it can be very good against every army in its own particular way, but Im one of those guys who prefers to have there units play have the ability to perform multiple roles, and with the Assault Cannon I can do that. The biggest issue I am having at the moment is whenever the MM is worth it, as some people say that it's not since it has a too narrow LOS, and that the Hurricane Bolters can be good as a defensive-fire weapon. In short, Im looking for a more hybrid build for my Stormraven, but I will consider trying out the Anti-Tank Stormraven Gunship.

[Upstartes]

I have thought about the missle launcher up front for the versitility as well and have been tempted to try it. How well has it done against other flyers and how well has it done against various armies?

 

I have been very pleased with its performance against other flyers, though I haven't played a large variety of armies with it. My primary opponents are Chaos (helldrake), Tyranids (flying hive tyrant), and Eldar (with FW flyers). The FW Eldar flyers are a pain because they have ridiculous jink saves. Given this, the high number of shots from AC + TML are great. My primary use for it is a gunship, with a small scoring squad inside for last-minute objective or backfield drops, and I've yet to be disappointed with how it performs in this role. I haven't had a game yet where I wished it had been outfitted differently - though, of course, the effect of points that could have been spent elsewhere can be hard to detect.

[thade]

When I see SRs they are very often kitted out for anti-vehicle and very often carrying some ridiculous super unit, so it's like this 700+ point boat of Shoot At Me Now. If I were to field one (I don't yet own one) I'd probably put a strike squad in it or use it for mid-game ferrying of units (have it come in empty from reserve). The name of the game in 40k is Target Priority: if you present your opponent with an obvious target (an SR with a pricey payload) it'll get shot at. If you present your opponent with several obvious targets, you present them with choices: the harder those choices are for them, the stronger your game can be.

 

I use this strat with my marines, putting vicious melee captains with tac squads, vanilla assault squads into Land Raiders, and mean Vanguard units into Rhinos, all in the same list. (That worked better in 5th when units could charge out of a stationary Rhino, but it's still useful now, if slower and a bit more risky.) Which one do you shoot at? Focus fire or split fire? Non-trivial choices for your opponent work to your advantage.

 

Food for thought.

[Upstartes]

In my gunboat version, I put a cheap scoring unit in it whose only function is to get dropped somewhere at the end of the game - either on an empty objective or in the enemy deployment zone. I frequently run Coteaz/henchman lists, so frequently the unit is just some cheap veteran guardsmen. So the raven is expensive, but the unit inside is not. The raven spends the whole game hunting either flyers or ground threats. I really like this style of using it.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

When I see SRs they are very often kitted out for anti-vehicle and very
often carrying some ridiculous super unit, so it's like this 700+ point
boat of Shoot At Me Now. If I were to field one (I don't yet own one)
I'd probably put a strike squad in it or use it for mid-game ferrying of
units (have it come in empty from reserve). The name of the game in 40k
is Target Priority: if you present your opponent with an obvious target
(an SR with a pricey payload) it'll get shot at. If you present your
opponent with several obvious targets, you present them with choices:
the harder those choices are for them, the stronger your game can be.

 

Now, take the uber Transport+Unit, with a Locator Beacon.

 

Zoom on turn 2 (boosted by PC and/or Aegis Defense Line), and Skies of Fury the unit.

 

36" Move, no scatter, and all you need worry about is any interceptor guns you should have killed Turn 1.

[Seahawk]

I've been using two since it came out, TLLC and TLMM, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Rommel44]

Thanks for the replies so far mates, however for those who arent aware Im not running a typical GK army. At the moment, I am running a Inquisition Warrior Acoylte army, with multiple squads of guys in Chimeras, with some in TLLC Razobacks and a couple of Autocannon Dreads w/Psybolt ammunition for long-range fire support, lead by Inquisitor Coteaz to make them troops. Now with that in mind, the TLLC/MM Gunboat does sound very appeling as it would give me some solid, long-range fire support, but I have always been a fan of Assault Cannons as they can wipe out pretty much anything. But do you think it would be worth to give my Razorbacks Twin-Linked Assault Cannons w/Psybolt ammunition instead?

[Inquisitor Fox]

By the numbers (which I ran a while ago and don't have on me at the moment, but please trust me) the psybolt ammo assault cannon generates more penetrating damage and glances than the TLLC against even a Land Raider target.  The downside is the range reduction (24 vs 48 inches).  Likewise, in my opinion (this one I didn't run numbers) I think the typhoon missile launcher will do more overall damage, even against most vehicles, than a TLmultimelta.  It also has the benefit of being able to swap to anti-infantry.

 

If you pair this setup with hurricane bolter sponsons you have the ability to fire the typhoon missile launcher, the hurricane bolters, and even your psi-strike missiles against an infantry target, then utilizing PotMS you can either target a second different unit with your assault cannons (though I'm going to model mine with the Forge World psycannon turret since an assault cannon with psybolt ammo is identical to a vehicle mounted psycannon) against a vehicle nearby, or also direct them to the primary target for a horde of dakka dakka.  Alternatively, you could direct your typhoon missile launcher against a far away vehicle with krak missiles, and then direct your "psycannon" towards a second target (with hurricane bolter support if need be) or even target two vehicles at once, one with the missiles and one with the "psycannon".

 

In my mind, even though it's more expensive (280 vs 205) you can't get more versatile than the typhoon missile launcher, hurricane bolters, and psybolt ammunition.

[number6]

In my mind, even though it's more expensive (280 vs 205) you can't get more versatile than the typhoon missile launcher, hurricane bolters, and psybolt ammunition.

Agree completely.

 

Personally, I just don't think that plunking that many points into the stormraven is worth it. At that cost, it's more expensive than any land raider, yet nowhere near as resilient.

 

Also, while INP is correct in his tally of damaging hits with his loadout, the thing that makes the TLMM and TLLC stand out are their AP values. The TLMM is almost guaranteed a penetrating hit, which -- as an AP 1 weapon -- it will explode a vehicle on a 4+. Similarly, the TLLC -- as an AP 2 season -- will explode a vehicle on a 5+. (Immobilization -- especially for a flyer -- on a 4+ is just about as good.) And against flyers, the TLLC is very likely to get a penetrating hit. (4+ to pen even the most heavily armed -- AV 12 -- flyers.)

 

Granted: not as potent as INP's loadaout against non-vehicular targets. But against vehicular flyers, I actually think the stock stormraven is more points efficient than INP's loadout. But, as he noted, it isn't actually quite as flexible.

 

Essentially, against non-vehicles, I'm looking to use the stormraven's TLLC and TLMM against the other targets one would normally target with them: heavy infantry, MCs, etc, just trying to help accumulate wounds along with the rest of the army. I still feel that the GKs have the toughest time with long range and vehicles, and the TLLC and TLMM do the most to help alleviate that shortcoming. Against non-optimal targets -- e.g., infantry-focused lists -- the GK army is already quite strong, and having an uber-stormraven just isn't necessary to help out in those cases.

[Seahawk]

Exactly. The AP values are the winners for me too. 

 

That said, I always arm my razorbacks with TLAC and psybolt ammunition.

[spartan249]

TLMM & TLLC for me. The SR serves two purposes for me: Delivery of henchmen death ball and Anti-vehicle/flier. This way, it's cheap (allows me to get other notable additions to the army) and reasonably effective at it's role (what I would give to get bloodstrike missiles instead of these useless mindstrikes...).

 

Gunboat builds go 250+ points, and I'm not so keen on dropping that many points on what is essentially a diversionary/sacrificial unit. 

[Brother Maikel]

 

In my mind, even though it's more expensive (280 vs 205) you can't get more versatile than the typhoon missile launcher, hurricane bolters, and psybolt ammunition.

Agree completely.

 

Personally, I just don't think that plunking that many points into the stormraven is worth it. At that cost, it's more expensive than any land raider, yet nowhere near as resilient.

 

Also, while INP is correct in his tally of damaging hits with his loadout, the thing that makes the TLMM and TLLC stand out are their AP values. The TLMM is almost guaranteed a penetrating hit, which -- as an AP 1 weapon -- it will explode a vehicle on a 4+. Similarly, the TLLC -- as an AP 2 season -- will explode a vehicle on a 5+. (Immobilization -- especially for a flyer -- on a 4+ is just about as good.) And against flyers, the TLLC is very likely to get a penetrating hit. (4+ to pen even the most heavily armed -- AV 12 -- flyers.)

 

Granted: not as potent as INP's loadaout against non-vehicular targets. But against vehicular flyers, I actually think the stock stormraven is more points efficient than INP's loadout. But, as he noted, it isn't actually quite as flexible.

 

Essentially, against non-vehicles, I'm looking to use the stormraven's TLLC and TLMM against the other targets one would normally target with them: heavy infantry, MCs, etc, just trying to help accumulate wounds along with the rest of the army. I still feel that the GKs have the toughest time with long range and vehicles, and the TLLC and TLMM do the most to help alleviate that shortcoming. Against non-optimal targets -- e.g., infantry-focused lists -- the GK army is already quite strong, and having an uber-stormraven just isn't necessary to help out in those cases.

 

re: resiliency, I haven't had my (BA) Stormraven destroyed in more than a handful of the 30+ games I've played with it in 6ed, and even in those cases its mostly when I sacrifice it by hovering within charge distance of something scary that could easily take on a Land Raider (usually to destroy or severely damage a critical enemy scoring unit late in the game).  They offer a different form of resiliency than a LR (not getting hit rather than ignoring the things that do hit), but it works just as well.

 

The problem with the TLLC/TLMM loadout, especially for a GK raven that lacks S8 AP1/2 missiles, is that you're basically paying 205 points for 2 anti-armour shots. Yeah, they'll hit 88% of the time, but that's an extremely high cost/shot ratio. Add that to not coming in until T2 at the earliest and the movement hassles and fire-arc limitations inherent to flyers, and I don't see the point.

 

The best way to make use of an expensive unit like the Stormraven is to ensure that it is making effective use of all of its weapons every turn.  With the movement restrictions on flyers, there's even less of a guarantee than normal that you'll be able to get a heavily armoured target in your sights every turn.  Firing a multi-melta and a lascannon into a light infantry squad is a waste of time.

 

The TLAC/TLMM/HB loadout, on the other hand, gives you tools vs flyers, tools vs heavy armour and tools to deal with virtually every type of infantry on the board. Sans psybolts, TLAC > TLLC against every armour value for getting useful hits.  Toss in psybolts and its even less of a contest.  For an extremely modest additional investment (30 pts) over a bare 'raven you can ensure you've got something useful for the 'raven to do every turn, regardless of what its pointed at, what the biggest current threat is, or what your opponent's list looks like.

 

Assault Cannon: 4x S6 AP4 Rending Twin-linked BS4 shots

4 * (.67+(.33*.67)) = 3.56 hits

 

AV          10    11    12     13    14

Glance    .59   .59      0    .19   .19

Pen      1.18   .59   .59    .39   .19

 

Lascannon: 1x S9 AP2 Twin-linked BS4 shots

1 * (.67+(.33*.67)) = .89 hits

 

AV          10    11    12     13    14

Glance    .15   .15   .15    .15   .15

Pen        .74   .59   .44    .30   .15

 

The only thing you're losing out on is the range and the guaranteed AP2, but on most tables a 60" range (36" move + 24" shoot) is more than enough and between Rending (for infantry) and volume of shots (for vehicles) you're probably coming out about even on the damage table rolls.

 

And while its true that GK are not wanting for anti-infantry firepower, one thing they are wanting for is mobile anti-infantry firepower (especially that lasts more than a couple of turns), and the TLAC/TLMM/HB gives you a unit that can get anywhere you want in about 1-2 turns and put more than half a strike squad worth of firepower into whatever its pointed at.

[number6]

re: resiliency, I haven't had my (BA) Stormraven destroyed in more than a handful of the 30+ games I've played with it in 6ed

Heh. Exactly the opposite experience for me. I've lost my Stormraven in ALL but a handful of games! Usually while it's been zooming, not hovering.

People in my area have embraced 6e -- and flyers (and flyer/anti-flyer tactics) -- full on.

The problem with the TLLC/TLMM loadout, especially for a GK raven that lacks S8 AP1/2 missiles, is that you're basically paying 205 points for 2 anti-armour shots. Yeah, they'll hit 88% of the time, but that's an extremely high cost/shot ratio.

If you're arguing that the Stormraven is overpriced, you'll get no argument from me! It is NOT a points efficient vehicle. Putting more points into it just to make it more effective as a gunboat for the points you do spend on it doesn't actually change that fact. You will still end up with an overpriced, points-inefficient vehicle.

Even with the new GW flyers book giving most other Marine variants access to the Stormraven, I can't imagine anybody choosing to use it for any reason other than "cool" factor. If the GK codex had any other flyers in it, I doubt I'd be using the stormraven.

I use it because, as a pure GK codex player, there are no other options available to me. If I have to spend a ton of points on a flyer just to be competitive in 6e, then I'm going to spend as little as possible to ease my pain.

Add that to not coming in until T2 at the earliest and the movement hassles and fire-arc limitations inherent to flyers, and I don't see the point.

As I stated, my stormraven is primarily an anti-flyer unit. Coming in from reserves is not a detriment, therefore. Furthermore, when arriving from reserves, there are no issues with getting both guns oriented on any enemy target you might wish -- whether on the ground or in the air. Even when zooming.

Flyers are not required to enter the battlefield orthogonal to your long table edge. They can come on in a steep angle, virtually parallel to your long table edge if you wish. The TLMM will hit whatever you like. And the turret has ~270 degrees of arc to it. Unless a desirable target is directly behind the stormraven, the turret can hit it.

Finally, there are always ongoing reserves if you need to repeat the process at some point, effectively "resetting" your apprach vectors to be whatever you need.

[Rommel44]

Lot of good opinions so far, glad to see that there is a bit more variety then at my game store, where the 2x GK Marine players run there Stormraven's as Dakka gunships and nothing else. Currently, I will be play-testing a Stormraven in a small point game coming up, and will most likely be trying out the standard AC w/Psybolt Ammunition and the TLMM for starters to see what it can do (no Hurrican Bolters at this time), however Im still very tempted to test out the TML, as INP pointed out, is very versitle and good against both infantry and armor. Hopefully there are some point changes in the Death from the Skies book.

 

As for my Razorbacks, Im liking the idea of the TLAC w/Psybolt Ammo a lot more as it gives me more versitility overall, and my already my army has a lot of both plasma, melta, and S8 autocannons across the board so Im not seriously lacking anywhere for the most part. However I would appreciate your advice still and if you have more to give then by all means please do. Plan is at the moment to field at least 2x Stormravens, with the goal for them overall to be able to take care of enemy armor and infantry, with enemy flyers being there first priority if they have any.

[Darkmagi]

Personally I'm a fan of the full on Daka Storm Raven, TLAC, HB, Hurricanes, Psybolt ammo... yes this clocks in at around 255 points but even the now str5 hurricanes work against most opposing flyers especially the ever annoying "crescents of doom" One big thing to remember is glances will bring down a flyer just as easily as pennitrating and that raven puts out up to 12 str5, 3 str6, and 4 str7 shots down range at 12" and at 24" the only decrease is 6 str5 shots... I think the volume of fire more then makes up for the lack of "punch" the wepon have, and is easily capeable of slaughtering almost an entire mob of light infantry in a single turn netting again in my opinion the best bang for your buck

[Rommel44]

Never denied it wasn't good mate, however I was just saying that it was nice to see something different for a change. However, I am tempted to try other builds still, its just at the moment the MM and the Assault Cannon w/Psybolt ammo seems like a solid choice at the moment, and plus its not too expensive compared to other builds.

[IndigoJack]

The assault cannon + MM is a good combo, though I'd recommend doing it without the psybolts. Though the S6 rending isn't as good as the S7 rending, I don't think one extra point of strength is worth 20pts.

[Inquisitor Fox]

The psybolt pricing really comes into it's own when you have two (or three) weapon systems which all benefit from it.  Pairing the Assault Cannon with either a Heavy Bolter or the Hurricane Bolters makes the psybolt ammo better priced.

 

Part of the reason to take the Hurricane Bolter sponsons really... that many shots to the side or rear armor of a vehicle at S5 is effective, just ask the Tau Fire Warriors ;)

[BenjamminUK]

Part of the reason to take the Hurricane Bolter sponsons really... that many shots to the side or rear armor of a vehicle at S5 is effective, just ask the Tau Fire Warriors ;)

My SR with Hurricane Sponsons destroyed 2 rhinos and a razorback on weekend purely because of this ... When your thrown a handful of dice forget stats and start thinking luck :-) I currently run with AC - HB - HB sponsons yes a gunboat and costly but it's a risk that normally gives me the air power and the means to dominate either air to air or air to ground support

[adamv6]

 

The assault cannon + MM is a good combo, though I'd recommend doing it without the psybolts. Though the S6 rending isn't as good as the S7 rending, I don't think one extra point of strength is worth 20pts.

 

The 20pts is worth every last one of them when you pen a Landraider with it.  Needing a 3+ instead of a 5+ to pen makes a huge difference.

 

I personally run mine with TL Multimelta & TL Assault Cannon with Psybolts.   I will try to engineer it to come in on turn3, by which time, with its 18" move onto the board its in half Multimelta range to evaporate a vehicle / flyer with its first action.