Uaronain Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 As I look over lists I do tend to see a lot of transports, drop pods, and now the raven. I have never been one for using any kind of special mode of delivery for my men when running a gunline as my local boards are 4x4 or 6x4 even when objectives are involved. I just have not had a hard time getting objectives so I dont see exactly why rhinos razorbacks and land raiders are so important unless you intend to use them for assaulting. I can see using them as cheap cover and making getting a clear LoS on something important like a vindi harder but just dont see the big deal. Brothers can you tell me why they are important? I have been told that my logic is flawed before ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Speed. If you want to get somewhere in a hurry, transports let you do that. This is especially useful for short ranged shooters, like anything with a boltgun. On foot, utilizing average rolls, you can expect to move 12" and run 7" over two turns. In a Rhino, you'll move 24" (12" move, 6" flatout, 6" move), disembark for another 6", and (as long as the Rhino didn't blow up along the way) get to rapid fire at full strength. So for short range shooters you're getting an extra 11" of movement on average in two turns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3314574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraTacSgt Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Cover saves in the open field for other units like Vindi's, etc are not to be discounted. That said, they are great for flanking. When an enemy commits to assaulting your line on a certain front, you flat out a rhino w/ a full tac squad up the flank onto his backfield objective or other such soft target. I had a mounted tac squad hop out of their rhino, wipe an opposing 7-8 marine tac squad (my shooting phase then strong overwatch), melee (krak nade) a whirlwhind, and then shoot up another 6-7 marines from another tac squad, all over the course of three turns. I also love to see my enemies shoot anti-tank weapons at my transports when they could be shooting at my vindicators/dreads/etc. My experience only applies to rhinos/razorbacks, but for 35-40pts they are pretty easy to justify taking in a C:SM army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3314658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangamarine Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Also every turn the rhino survives, is another turn in which your opponent cannot access your more squishy elements of your list, and whittle them down before you get them where they are needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3314659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 There are a ton of benefits; speed, protection, mobile walls, mobile LOS-blocking terrain, gun platforms, flexibility, etc. Most importantly, without rhinos/razorbacks, your infantry will be shredded by all sorts of armor ignoring templates & blasts, not to mention craptons of plasma. Some units, like assault terminators and ironclad dreadnoughts, aren't even worth taking without an assault transport. Basically, if these things I'm talking about here are alien to you, then be happy that you're playing against crappy opponents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3314731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 One very good reason to want a transport is ye olde Heldrake. That said I do tend to use pods for my marines rather than rhinos because of their ability to allow me to respond to my opponents tactics more immediately and reliably. I can drop a tac squad with a flamer and a combi flamer next to an IG gun line and wipe out a large swath of them. I can similarly use a melta equipped tac squad to remove some vehicular threat from the field. But I do use my Storm Raven to bring my terminator/HQ unit to the field. Assault transport combined with one of the best anti air gun platforms in the game? Yes please! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3314980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 There are a ton of benefits; speed, protection, mobile walls, mobile LOS-blocking terrain, gun platforms, flexibility, etc. Most importantly, without rhinos/razorbacks, your infantry will be shredded by all sorts of armor ignoring templates & blasts, not to mention craptons of plasma. Some units, like assault terminators and ironclad dreadnoughts, aren't even worth taking without an assault transport. Basically, if these things I'm talking about here are alien to you, then be happy that you're playing against crappy opponents. This is very much why I continue to use Rhinos and the like, even though they are now consider more fragile due to Hull Points. Adds tactical flexibility, speed, damage potential, and protection for the unit inside and any behind. All in all, Rhinos are great. Razorbacks are OK, depends on what you want them for and how many points you sink into them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3315301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaronain Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share Posted February 27, 2013 Well as I am new to 6th I think they were using kid gloves with me as I had not played a game since 4th edition. After looking over everything you guys said I can see the value of transports if even just using rhinos. Thanks for the wisdom brothers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3315494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 There are a ton of benefits; speed, protection, mobile walls, mobile LOS-blocking terrain, gun platforms, flexibility, etc. Most importantly, without rhinos/razorbacks, your infantry will be shredded by all sorts of armor ignoring templates & blasts, not to mention craptons of plasma. Some units, like assault terminators and ironclad dreadnoughts, aren't even worth taking without an assault transport. Basically, if these things I'm talking about here are alien to you, then be happy that you're playing against crappy opponents. This is very much why I continue to use Rhinos and the like, even though they are now consider more fragile due to Hull Points. Adds tactical flexibility, speed, damage potential, and protection for the unit inside and any behind. All in all, Rhinos are great. Razorbacks are OK, depends on what you want them for and how many points you sink into them. I used to try to maximize firepower with Razorbacks but considering how fragile they are, they really are best left to being transports first and firepower second. So some ways I've found to maximize the Razorback is to use the twin-linked heavy bolter and leave the big guns to units that do it better. Additionally, Razorbacks are better served dropping units off in locations that aren't necessarily in your enemies face. For example, my Long Fangs might need to re-position... since Razorback has more range than Rhino, it can do the same job as Rhino and for 5 points more have a greater impact afterwards. Finally, squads that naturally don't have over 6 models (like Long Fangs, or Devastators that don't max out) are good candidates for spending the extra 5 on the Razorback... unless you intend to use the fireports. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3316091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 What other vehicles did you have in your razorback lists? Twin-linked heavy bolters don't scare anybody, tbh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3316227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Well as I am new to 6th I think they were using kid gloves with me as I had not played a game since 4th edition. After looking over everything you guys said I can see the value of transports if even just using rhinos. Thanks for the wisdom brothers! There are merits to gunline forces, but the lack of easy mobility and protection can be troublesome. It all depends on your playstyle though. The problem with 6th Ed is that in odd number objective games, it can be a case of who wins the die roll wins, especially with gunline lists. And sometimes against those sort of armies even your mobility will get blown away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3316229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 One thing about SM gunlines is that they are inferior to IG and Tau gunlines. As a result, you need to get into combat with these armies' infantry to equalize the shooting power. By their very nature, you're not going to get into combat unless you can get across the table rapidly and in good order. Thus, transports. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3316470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gapow Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Why do rhino's get to move 6" in the assault phase, I can't seem to find the rule that allows this. Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3322774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Gapow...they don't in the assault phase. They can move w/o shooting in the shooting phase. A rhino can then go 12 inches in the movement, 6 inches in the shooting phase, for a distance of 18" (and not doing anything else). The next turn the transport is in the opponent's deployment zone, unless it gets interdicted. I've had some big tactical discussion with horde players, and for them the issue is to have so many units on foot, everything has to keep moving in order for them to capture backfield objectives. That can mean reduced firepower on their part. C:SM armies need transports of some kind for the purpose of getting to the objective, unless you are so armed that you can just table the opponent while ignoring the objectives...overall, everything depends on your playstyle, and the types of opponents you play locally. At my FLGS, if I had no metal boxes, it goes badly. For me: Typical demon opponent: AP3 Flamer spam just eats marines. Alpha strikes by deep striking flamers are hard to recover from. Typical IG opponent: Manticores just eat marines, followed by massive amounts of cheap firepower eat marines. Typical Chaos marine opponents: Helldrakes or blasters or plasma eat marines. After that it is all about outlasting them in assault. Typical Tyranid opponents: transports are not as important here as having lots of firepower. Too many bugs to kill. Typical ork opponents: like tyranids. They come in unstoppable waves. Typical Tau opponents: like playing a C:SM list with higher powered weapons. Dice rolls for the grater good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3322807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gapow Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Thanks Ming, it just stated earlier in this thread and on some others I'd seen that then can move 12", flat out 6" then another 6" in the assault phase. As far as I was aware only Eldar Jetbikes could move in the assault phase as per the rulebook. I didn't know whether I was missing a trick. I genrally play Eldar and my GK opponent stopped taking rhinos in 6th ed, but I just kept him out of range last game. If he'd have moved 18" in first turn then he'd have been able to get a load more shots off for the remainder of the game. I've stopped taking them for my Eldar due the various nerfs to my assault troops etc, but if I needed to get close to my opponent I would take cheap transport and just go flatout in my first turn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271901-the-importance-of-transports/#findComment-3322820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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