1850 points local tournament

[Israfel]

Hello Brethern,

I won 2 out of 3 games and was third overall in local tournament. I'll go through the list and the games briefly to highlight any development points.

The List:

1849 pts

HQ
Mephiston - Codex Powers

He performed as usual, tanked at the right spot, killed at the right spot. AP3 kind of decreases his overall killyness. However AA also makes him more survivable. He was never good at taking down enemy deathstars anyway. He is an extereme bully against anything medium to squishy. I made a few bad calls on the second game with him, otherwise he performed as intended.

Troops
Assault Squad JP 10 man Lclaw-MB - MGx2
Assault Squad JP 10 man MB - MGx2
They performed OK, nothing spectacular.

Assault Squad 5 man MG - Rback TLPG-LC - SL
Assault Squad 5 man MG - Rback TLPG-LC - SL
5 man squads intend to become a liability pretty fast. Although I benefitted a lot from the Rbacks fast AP2 weaponry. I might drop them off for future builds. They were intended for home objective camping, which they did manage mostly but once again not in a spectacular way.

Elite
Sanguinary Priest w. JP
Same old same old he did his job pretty well. 20 jumpers with this guy is a very versatile unit cluster able to get accross the board quickly and put pressure on exposed flanks, enemy formations.

Furioso Dreadnought - Frag Cannon - HF - SL in Drop pod
This was the first time I used him and I was extremely impressed with its abilities. I need to learn some finnesse with it but it was very effective on putting quick pressure on my opponents. I might consider backing him up with a bit more drop pod goodness maybe? He was very good overall.

HS
Stormraven TLMM-TLLC
Stormraven TLMM-TLAC-Hurricane bolters
They performed OK. The Hurricane bolters were very disappointing so I basically breaked them of right after the tournament. That 30 points should have gone in EA for these guys, I lost one due to getting stunned and flying over enemies

Vindicator - SL
I always liked the Vindicator the aura of terror it radiates forces opponents to make bad choices, did not kill much but scared a lot in the end.

General Analysis:
The Army did work well, but not very well. I made a few bad desicions with Mephiston on the second round which cost me the game. This tends to happen when you mess with your most expensive unit Also I should probably get more experience with the Fragioso. I really liked him. The army held OK against 2+ targets but lacked sorely in the blob decimating department, which is a big issue. It needs imrpovement in this front fast. Maybe some DC's could do the trick. In a drop pod, Stormraven maybe? I'm open to suggestions. Maybe even more?

Game 1:
This was against the Dark Angels Codex. It had Belial, 1 Terminator librarian, 1 Deathwing Kinghts Squad (the former 3 went together) 2x Deathwing Terminator Squads (1 CML, 1 AC, TH&SS [one in each squad] , 2x10 man tacticals with MG's and MM's in rhinos, 2x5 tacticals with LC's, 2 AC-LC Predators.

It was diagonal deployment with 2 objectives on my side and one in his side, Mission was big guns never tire.

He made a firebase on his side the the foot tacticals + 2 preds on his objective. 2 rhinos went to the center readt to push to my zone. Terminators waited in orbit (to come in Turn 1).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116781/in/photostream
I deployed my Jumpers, SP and Mephiston together behind some trees to get cover from the firebase. The Rbacks went deep in my DZ ready to support the Jumper formation. Vindicator went to reserve.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116771/in/photostream
He started and dropped in the Terminators close to my jumper formation. There was a bit of scattering he stunned a Rback with split fire. I lost 2 jumpers to shooting.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8516232062/in/photostream
I had the option of making a dash forward to his firebase and leave the terminators behind to foot slog or taking them in close combat. I decided to clean up my side of the board. So 1 jumper squad, SP and Mephiston went for one terminator squad while the other jumper squad made a jump towards the other DW squad (which was a bit out of reach due to scatter) with the RBack positioning itself for fire support. Since they had landed close I would also have Hammer of wrath in muy favor too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8516231746/in/photostream

On the other side of the board, the Fragioso came in, shielded itself from the tacticals thanks to the drop pod and went for the side armor of the pred. I was lucky in this roll and rolled 3 6's and blew up the predator. This was unexpected but more than welcome, I would easily settle for shaking it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116889/in/photostream/

The jumpers faired well decimated DW squad which was out of position to a man with chainsword and Rback fire. The other DW squad also held with one man standing.

Turn 2 he made a dash with his rhinos towards me while shooting proved ineffective against the Fragioso. Close combat saw the demise of his out of position DW while the DWK squad charged in to rescue the lone DW terminator. My assault squad was wiped out while Mephy managed to kill the last DW member. I rolled for LD and unfortunately stayed in combat with a 3.

In my turn my first flyer and vindicator came in. I blew up the rhino with the SR and Fired my vindicator to the content. My freed up assault squad along with Rback moved towards the other rhino, blew it up and assaulted in its contents. Fragioso went on it rampage and blew up the other predator with its fist. Mephiston started its long story of tanking the DWK via challenges and lots of armor saves.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116993/in/photostream
From this point forward it went down the siphon for my opponent as I moved to mop up whatever was remaining on the table.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8516232018/in/photostream
I'll continue with game 2 in another post!
 

[Israfel]

Second Game:


This was against a IG + DA army which proved to be very strong. It consisted of a primaris psyker, 1x50 man blob with 5 autocannons, 1x30 man blob with 3xflamers, 2x platoon commands, 1 Leman Russ Tank, 1x2 Gryphon Battery, 3x Vendetta, 1 Dark Angel Librarian, 2x 5man tacticals with PC, 1x Darkshroud speeder, 1x5 man devastator with 4 LC's and a Bastion with Comms Relay.


Mission was purge the alien with classic face to face deployment. He won to start and did so. His warlord trait gave -1 to my reserves. He clustered upon the left quarter of the table with the bastion protecting his Gryphons at the far left and the small blob overlapping the big one as a layer, with his other fire support elements distributed within. The Devastaotrs went into the bastion and one tactical went up. The IC's joined the big blob.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515117205/in/photostream

I deployed Mephiston just accross the bastion, out of sight thanks intervening rocks. I deployed the vindicator and the Rbacks to the far right so that I would be out of range of everything except the battle cannon. I left the Jumpers + SP out in the reserves (in hindsight I should have put them on the table as well, to increase my forward push)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116835/in/photostream

He goes first. Turn 1 isn't really spectacular as he fires the battlecannon but scatters.


My turn I bring in the Fragioso in front of the bastion. Fly Mephiston towards the Bastion, once again staying behind the rocks. My armor moves 12 and goes another 12 in the shooting phase. I was trying to get to the other side as soon as possible to minimize the firing arcs of the Vendettas (the plan did not work well as (i) I couldn't go far enough and (ii) since I forgot that he can actually put his model stands within his own models ).


I fire with the Fragioso and toast 4 marines and take of a hull point of the Nightshroud (so close to get the first blood!) and also kill a few from the small blob. Mephy runs a little more.


His Turn 2 the flyers come in and toast both of the razorbacks. The Nightshroud flies to cover the Vendettas. His combined firepower takes out the Fragioso abd the Drop pod. Huge set back, but not surprising

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8516232060/in/photostream

My turn, one flyer and one Jumper comes in. I fire at two vendettas and score AP1 penetrates on them to go on to roll 1's and only stun them, he also makes a few saves from diving + nightshroud cover (it's astonishing how all codici has been FAQ'd to only affect their own units but this thing has been left behind). Jumper aims for the middle of the board but scatters away. Mephiston jumps in front of the blob and charges through them to the Leman Russ which he explodes to kill a tons of guardsmen, but makes no real effect as there are tons more.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8516232006/in/photostream

His turn the flyers leave the scene and he starts unloading on Mephiston with Fire fire fire! with prescience and everthing else in range. I save well and only get two wounds.


My turn I fly off my SR, as the other one comes in and the other jumper also arrives with the SP and lands near the previously arrived jumper which was limping towards enemy lines.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116937/in/photostream
The SR open up on the rear armor of the Darkshroud (he makes all his cover saves on a 2+) and kills of the remaining marine. Mephiston goes in the big blob (in retrospect this was a huge mistake, I should have gone for the easier kill point such as the gryphons, bastion, smaller blob etc.). I was actually hoping for a precision strike to kill off the librarian to break the fearless, but didn't roll a six.


From that point forward things went even more south. Mephiston died after that many attacks. The Vendettas came in and stunned the SR which could not land safely and got destroyed. I rolled terbbily for the armor saves and assault distance for the Jumpers and lost a lot of models and stayed in the open, etc...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116891/in/photostream

When our time was up, I was horribly behind in kill points.

Forward to the third game!

[Israfel]

Game 3:

This was against a Draigowing army with Draigo + Terminator Librarian + Grey Knight Terminator Squad with Thule in a Land Raider Crusader, a 10 man Paladin Squad and a Dreadnought with Psycannons. Due to my mobility and variety of AP2 and better insta-killing weapons, I was on a huge advantage. My opoonent's 5+'s were on fire, so he managed to stay in the game until the end.

We were playing a 4 objective game with short table edge deployment. I will not get into details much, as it played out pretty straight-forward.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8516231956/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116765/in/photostream

I dropped the Fragioso very (too) aggresively in the enemy DZ to hose one half of the paladin squad, I killed a paladin.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116777/in/photostream

The rest of my army moved in (I left my pedestrian assault squads behind the buildings securing the objectives and basically did not touch them any further) to firing positions.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515117095/in/photostream

While the jumpers were waiting in orbit. I lost the drop pod ofcourse, and gave first blood. However the Fragioso survived and assaulted the damaged paladin squad. While he went on with killing the paladins, Draigo and friends assaulted the venerable warrior and brought him down.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515117021/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8516231920/in/photostream

The rest of the match was a game of cat and mouse, where I immobilized the LR and got rid of the Dreadnought with melta's from the jumpers. I pressed on my mobility and firepower advantage to kill as much as models as possible and contest his objectives, if his 5+'s were not so good he would have been tabled.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116831/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75063383@N03/8515116961/in/photostream

[Israfel]

No comments, suggestions at all

[Chaplain Admetus]

No comments, suggestions at all

Know how you feel on that :P. I was waiting til all the reports went up before I stuck my oar in - sounds good, and well done on getting third :). I agree that the fragioso might need more pods in support; sometimes there isn't a good target when it turns up and its just wasted/an easy kill. That DA/Guard list sounds absolutely hideous. Can you think of anything you'd change about the list/way you played it based on these few games?

[Father Mapple]

Those vendettas can fly over friendly models, and friendly models can move through their bases, but they still have to be next to the base, and not on it. So If he landed his vendetta in the middle of the blob, without moving the blob first and making room, then he did it wrong.

 

I think your list is really good. I run something similar, but a Baal instead of a Vindicator, and I put in a Tactical squal and Vets instead of the two Razorback squads. The tactical squad work well at giving you that one long range shot and scoring a backfield objective. You can buy them a naked priest if you're worried about survivability, but that takes them over the 175 cost of your razorback. I'd rather have 8 bolters, a flamer and lascannon for 180 than 1 TL lascannon shot and 2TL plasmagun shots that needs 10 unsaved AP3 wounds. Even a Heldrake is going to take out an AV11 about as quickly with S6 and S7 D3 vector strikes as it would with a AP3 flamer.

 

Also, if you take a 180pt tactical squad, that leaves you with the approximate cost of another dreadnought + drop pod. So if you take off the hurricane bolters as well, you can JUST squeeze in a drop pod for the tacticals if you'd like, giving you the 3 drop pods needed to get 2 down on turn 1. Two dreadnoughts is a lot of targets, and if you do it right and make them split their force, then you can pull them one way or another to use their high strength or melta weaponry, meaning 1 is much more likely to survive. I tend to get too aggressive as well, and want to flame ALL OF THEM in the middle, but it's better to get more than one template's use by putting them on the flanks most of the time.

 

You're right on how to play Mephiston, and charging him into the guard wasn't a good idea. Two assault squads charging into a guard blob tends to make it go away in my experience, though. 60 attacks on the charge, 40 hitting, 26-27 wounds, 20-21 being unsaved (assuming no power weapons) means it won't last long, and you're not worried about the return strikes most of the time. And since they've got a ATSKNF Dark Angel in there, it's either fearless or stubborn, but DOESNT have combat tactics, so they can't choose to run and are most likely sticking in the fight. If you add in 20 bolt pistol shots (assuming your close enough to not shoot yoruself out of a charge!) you're looking at 9-10 more unsaved wounds, for over half the blob being gone.

 

But you have good enough tactics, because you won the other two handedly it sounds like. Good job, and look forward to hearing how the new list does once changes are made!

[ianj253]

I think the hurricane bolters have more use than you give them.  I've had success with them and they shine on the assault cannon SR. You get 17 twin linked shots in rapid fire range.  On a side note EA got cheaper in the death from the skies book. 

[TheSauce]

I agree about the Hurricane Bolters - they're really nice for torrenting down blobs, and have good synergy with the assault cannon. If you're running LC/MM then it's probably not worth it, but I always try to find the points for them on my ravens (that said, I've magnetized them so I can take them on/off easily).

[Israfel]

Brethern,

 

Thank you for the replies. I added some pictures to the battle reports :)

 

I made a few tactical blunders in the tournament, but I think the list can also be improved.

 

The below units are those that performed good hence they will stay for the time being.

 

Mephiston

Troops Assault Squad JP 10 man MB - MGx2

Assault Squad JP 10 man MB - MGx2

 

Elite

Sanguinary Priest w. JP

Furioso Dreadnought - Frag Cannon - HF - SL in Drop pod

 

HS

Stormraven TLMM-TLLC

Stormraven TLMM-TLAC

Vindicator - SL

 

What can be changed?

The LC on the Jumper Srg (didn't get to use it all)

2 x Rback squads

Hurricane Bolters on the SR (I'm really not sold on these, they performed subpar during the tournament)

[Maybe] Vindicator (I liked how it performed, however if I de-mech the army further he will have a bigger bull's eye painted on it)

We're looking at 375 to 520 points to play with here

 

What needs to be added?

- A back field scoring unit.

I like the idea of having a tactical squad in this slot. 10 man, (which can be combat squaded when needed) will be versatile yet a bit fragile (there are dragons in the sky!). A metal box would probably be appropriate for some extra protection. I also like the idea of adding a drop pod to them if I get another offensive DP unit to ensure I have 2 drops in the first turn.

 

- Further Horde Killers

Another jumper squad can be considered for this position or a DC in drop pod would also be a strong candidate (Placing the DC in the SR's are good but risky as it increases the threat bar of the SR. They are resilient, but not THAT resilent in the end). 7 DC with two power weapons is a strong threat. Adding a chaplain would make them even more dangerous but the points also stack up in this case.

 

- Another Drop pod Dreadnought

The Fragioso looks brilliant, another one would be potent too. But maybe diversification might be more benefiicial, a regular Furioso with magna grapple would be good. If I go down the DC route a DC Dreadnought could also be considered. Although it is a crazy machinery by all rights 12 armor gets me thinking in terms of durability. Too many armies have easy to access krak grenades and shhoting will be more effective against them as well. Once they go in to combat though, carnage ensues.

 

Too many decisions, I'll go back to the drawing board and crunch some numbers. In the meantime all criticism is welcome!

 

@father mapple: Are you one of the hosts at Heroic28's?

[ianj253]

-Further horde killers

 

To me this is one of the reasons to take Hurricane bolters. If you use your storm raven against some 5+ horde infantry you're hitting them with 17 twin linked shots that are going to ignore armor.  

 

I've also had success with a pair of Baal preds.  Two of them put out 20 shots.

 

 

On a side note you may benefit from an Aegis and a coms relay. That lets your re roll your reserve rolls and ensures your ravens are on the board doing damage. I run a unit of 10 scouts that sit behind the aegis on objectives. If they go to ground they'll be getting a 2+ cover save. 

[Father Mapple]

One of the tricks I've been seeing is putting a 5 man Assault squad in the Stormraven. Your whole army likes to move forward as it is. Let your army do so, and then turn 2/3, have your SR zoom over one of the backfield objectives and have the 5 man squad jump out. This lets you do things like: keep them inside until later in the game for objective grabbing; zoom over a portion of the board that the enemy didn't deply on (that lonely objective across table), or become a tiny counter-objective clearer when you're looking at 10 zombies, gretchin, some scouts, etc on turn 3/4 when your Flyers are having to turn across his deployment zone. This is just an idea for 100pts.

 

Baals, with their 13 AV front, and 10 shots at 24" are pretty good against everything EXCEPT Necrons who need 24" to glance it to death. But they are great otherwise. 

 

The tactical squad is a good idea. Remember, you can put BOTH combat squads in the same Rhino now, and have them split up when they get out. That way you can have two objective sitters, but keep them a bit safer while shooting the heavy/assault weapon out of the top. Turn 5 have one squad get out one door and go 6", and have the other squad get out after moving the Rhino 6" for a total of 12", and an 18" threat range between the two objectives. But the Rhino does give up the first blood quickly, sometimes. That means you need enough target saturation where wasting shots on the Rhino is a bad idea.

 

@Israfel - I guest hosted on the Blood Angels podcasts. I know Sarat well personally, and see the others at events. 

[Polythemus]

Hey some nice reporting, good pics and great paint jobs on your models. I have a vested interest in the way that you beat the dark angel lists, especially the first one. Do you feel it came down to your better mobility and alpha strike ability with the dread? Did your opponent cast anything with the librarian when he came in with the deathwing (via the new FAQ its all simultaneous). From your description it seems like a pretty terrible list or pretty bad generalship.

[Israfel]

Hello Polythemus,

 

Thank you for your compliments! :)

 

To be honest, I do not think the army list of my first opponent was weak.  He didn't have any anti flyer protection but that did not affect our game that much to be honest, since my airforce was delayed by my dice rolling.  He had maybe too much tacticals.  I probably would have reduced the amount of tacticals and added another DW unit instead.  Then again I'm no expert on DA list building.
 

My Fragioso overperformed (due to me rolling 3x6's) at its first landing by blowing up the predator, then again there were reasonable chances for him to stun the same, which would more or less produce the same result IMHO. 

I think he made two tactical errors, the first one was to use his DWK super punch power (10STR AP2) one turn early.  He wiped out the assault squad, while he probably would have more success with them just buldgeoning the squad to death with his scepters and saving the super punch for Mephiston.  That way he would have freed his DWK who could maybe create some more mayhem in my backfield. The way he played they were stuck with Mephy with no one being able to really damage each other. 

The second error was to feed me the rhino based tacticals.  If one of them stayed behind it would create some real threat to the Fragioso with its melta weaponry.  And I would be forced to divide my forces to have the upper hand at his firebase.  The way he played the tacticals we're "in my way" to the firebase hence I took them out on the way and made it to the other side.

 

My overall mobility really gave me the upper hand throughout the game.  I was able to evade his blows or get quickly where he was weak and capitalize on his unsupported squads. 
 

[Israfel]

Brethern,

 

I'm getting ready for another tournament this week-end.  I'm working on some tweeks on the list, the baseline is as follows:

 

A total 1555 so I have 295 points to work with :)

 

The List:

1849 pts

HQ
Mephiston - Codex Powers

Troops
Assault Squad JP 10 man Lclaw-MB - MGx2
Assault Squad JP 10 man MB - MGx2
Death Company 7 man 3 with bolters, 2 with p.axes in drop pod

Elite
Sanguinary Priest w. JP

Furioso Dreadnought - Frag Cannon - HF - SL in Drop pod

HS
Stormraven TLMM-TLLC-EA
Stormraven TLMM-TLAC-EA

 

What would you suggest to improve the list.  Another drop pod will be sweet maybe a DC Dread or Furioso?  I am light on troops and also need some backfield scoring as well. Hmmm..? 

[CitadelArmyGuy]

It is nice how EA on Ravens is only 5pts now-- took it from 'maybe' to 'probably' should include, due to Stun being bad news for Flyers (even ones with Hover)

 

To fill your points, I would go with this:

• Power Axes on the SangPriest and other ASM Sarge (30pt)
• DA Allied Librarian: Jump Pack, Auspex (85pt)
• DA Allied 5x Tacticals: Lascannon (90pt)
• DA Allied 5x Tacticals: Lascannon (90pt)

295pts on the nose.

[Israfel]

Yes kudos to the price cut on the EA :)

 

This is some sound advice CAG thank you. It's astonishing how dirt cheap are the dark angels tacticals and librarian?! However I do not have any dark angels models :( I only have impweial guard models that I can add as an ally.

[Faithwing]

Great posts, Israfel!

 

I'm new to Blood Angels, and was wondering how Mephiston worked against 2+ armor heavy lists. Your battle reports really highlighted it - just tank.

 

Look forward to reading more!

[CitadelArmyGuy]

However I do not have any dark angels models...

Neither do I, but I run DA allied all the time. I just use my BA Tacticals and a BA Librarian. Just 'borrowing the rules' -- and there is no modeling for advantage because the size and height of one marine is the same as the next.

 

Honestly, if you have one marine army then you have them all.

[Israfel]

The modeling restrictions for the tournament is strict I'm afraid.  Any allies have to be properly (in the sense of different from the main force to the casual eye) painted in a diffrrent color so no dice :(

 

I haven't perfected the numbers but how about I drop the TLAC SR and add a guard detachment in the following lines:

 

Vendetta x2 squadroned

CCS with 3xmelta

Platoon with 30 man with 3 x AC

Platoon Command with 3 x flamers

 

This is 65 points over the top :(