Primach Showdown - the ones that didn't happen!

[Mantras]

 

Curze vs Russ, for the title of "Who's the toughest Primarch who got beat up by the Lion".

 

 

 

I lol'd hard at this.

[Peter the Hermit]

You mean sucker cowardly punched ? IIRC - Lion knocked Russ when he stopped fightning, and if backstaber didn't save Lion, Curze would choke him to death...+ he is gai, so no P want's to brawl with him...

[Wade Garrett]

And the second time Lion carved Konrad up like a pot roast.

 

Which just goes to show that Primarchs are not Pokemon, and Lion's Brooding Knight Errant type is not inherently weak to or super effective against Russ's Werewolf Jarl type or Konrad's Back Alley Knife Fighter type.

[Vesper]

I choose you, Back-Alley-Knife-Fighter !

[TheCrimsonLancer]

Alpharus vs Omegon. In the midst of 200 alpha legionaries, in an abandoned hive city. Most confusing fight ever.

[karden00]

Magnus vs Horus. Horus always said he had the most to fear from Magnus, being his biggest potential enemy. 

[Billuriye]

Magnus vs Horus. Horus always said he had the most to fear from Magnus, being his biggest potential enemy. 

He said it because he could disrupt his plans using his arcane lore. Not specifically that he feared facing him. 

[DarthMarko]

Actually Horus didn't say gak...It was a future vision of Horus (deamon) in "PB" appearing to Hawser....

He mentioned legion - not primarch....

 

 

 

‘I am clearing the board for the game to
come,’ he said. ‘I am setting it out the way I want it. Two key obstacles to my
ambitions are the Sons of Prospero and the Wolves of Fenris. The former is the
only Legion that has lorecraft enough to hinder me magically; the latter is the
only Legion dangerous enough to represent a genuine military threat. The
Emperor’s sorcerers and the Emperor’s executioners. I have no wish to store up
a fight with either for my future, so I have invested time and energy arranging
events to turn them upon each other.’

 

[Veteran Sergeant]

I've said more than once, and it's not always a popular idea, that since the Black Library has effectively completely discarded the original version(s) of the Horus Heresy, that they continue along that vein and give us some truly epic confrontations at the end.  Kill off a few more of the Primarchs, like the ones that aren't completely necessary to the 40K timeline. 

 

Primarchs that have a significant role in the 40K universe (and don't already die, or "die" in the storyline):

Fulgrim: Has to eventually fight Guilliman and send him into stasis.

Leman Russ: It's his opposition to the Codex that makes the Space Wolves what they are, plus, he gets a tank named after him (where's the Guilliman tank? lol)

Angron: Only Daemon Primarch to actually do much of anything after the Heresy... ever. 

Guilliman: He's rather indispensible to the Great Scouring, and the reformation of the Imperium.

Alpharius: He already gets killed, or "killed" (depending on what iteration or theory you believe, lol) eventually.

 

Primarchs that are more or less expendable:

 

Perturabo: Builds a giant planet of fortifications... and stays there.

Khaaaaaaan!: Presumably grows an even sweeter mustache and then disappears into the warp fighting Dark Eldar*.

Mortarion: Hangs out in the warp for 10,000 years, gets a heart tattoo.

Lorgar: Locks himself in a room writing a book nobody reads.

Vulkan: Disappears, and stays disappeared(?).

Corax: Wanders off into the warp with the worst possible, and most blatantly obvious, literary reference ever. It would do the Raven Guard fans a favor if he was killed in some glorious battle instead, lol.

 

Yes/No/Maybe So Importance:

Dorn: Carries off the Emprah after his confrontation with Horus, fights Perturabo at some point, disappears into a Space Hulk.
Magnus: Gets angry at Ahriman for turning the 1K Sons into dust, Battle of the Fang, but not much else.

 

 

Ultimately, the Horus Heresy has a lot of potential for such great primarch on primarch battles that it would almost be a disservice to not give them to the fans.  And they'd also been pretty silly and lame if none of them ended up as fatal duels.  After all, there's nothing more of a kick in the nuts than a battle to the death that ends up with no death.  We've had enough of those so far, to be honest. 

 

 

*It's important to note that since the Dark Eldar didn't even exist in the game before 1998, this isn't even "original" material.

[Billuriye]

I've said more than once, and it's not always a popular idea, that since the Black Library has effectively completely discarded the original version(s) of the Horus Heresy, that they continue along that vein and give us some truly epic confrontations at the end.  Kill off a few more of the Primarchs, like the ones that aren't completely necessary to the 40K timeline. 

 

Primarchs that have a significant role in the 40K universe (and don't already die, or "die" in the storyline):

Fulgrim: Has to eventually fight Guilliman and send him into stasis.

Leman Russ: It's his opposition to the Codex that makes the Space Wolves what they are, plus, he gets a tank named after him (where's the Guilliman tank? lol)

Dorn: Has to carry off the Emprah after his confrontation with Horus.

Angron: Only Daemon Primarch to actually do much of anything... ever. 

Guilliman: He's rather indispensible to the Great Scouring, and the reformation of the Imperium.

Alpharius: He already gets killed, or "killed" (depending on what iteration or theory you believe, lol) eventually.

 

Primarchs that are more or less expendable:

 

Perturabo: Builds a giant planet of fortifications... and stays there.

Khaaaaaaan!: Presumably grows an even sweeter mustache and then disappears into the warp fighting Dark Eldar*.

Mortarion: Hangs out in the warp for 10,000 years, gets a heart tattoo.

Lorgar: Locks himself in a room writing a book nobody reads.

Vulkan: Disappears, and stays disappeared(?).

Corax: Wanders off into the warp with the worst possible, and most blatantly obvious, literary reference ever. It would do the Raven Guard fans a favor if he was killed in some glorious battle instead, lol.

 

Yes/No/Maybe So Importance:

Magnus: Gets angry at Ahriman for turning the 1K Sons into dust, Battle of the Fang, but not much else.

 

 

Ultimately, the Horus Heresy has a lot of potential for such great primarch on primarch battles that it would almost be a disservice to not give them to the fans.  And they'd also been pretty silly and lame if none of them ended up as fatal duels.  After all, there's nothing more of a kick in the nuts than a battle to the death that ends up with no death.  We've had enough of those so far, to be honest. 

 

 

*It's important to note that since the Dark Eldar didn't even exist in the game before 1998, this isn't even "original" material.

 

Yeah, let's put all those useless Primarchs in cage and let them fight to death. It would ruin the story and franchise but make it up for action and bangs.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Wow, congratulations for not reading anything (or ignoring everything) I wrote, and then making a uselessly irrelevant and non-constructive criticism of it. 

 

And then people wonder why, from time to time, I come off as a bit disdainful of people.  :lol:

[Billuriye]

Wow, congratulations for not reading anything (or ignoring everything) I wrote, and then making a uselessly irrelevant and non-constructive criticism of it.

And then people wonder why, from time to time, I come off as a bit disdainful of people.

Your point was to make the 40k irrelevant (aka useless) primarchs kill each other so that it would somehow make Horus Heresy interesting. You posted this idea before but you should have known better its awful status given nobody was interested in it. You can stop reiterating it now.

[DarthMarko]

He didn't do that - @Sarge simply pointed out IMHO what characters are essential for HH storyline and should not stray to much for the sake of consistency....

Also I agree with him...

No offense to you, @Billuriye

                
             

[depthcharge12]

I doubt that any fair fights can be arranged seeing as how they start with somebody throwing the first punch or surprising the other. If you want to complain about dirty underhanded tricks then it makes it hard to find a winner because that is one way of fighting. It comes back to the discussion that Lucius is the best swordsman (or sigusmund) but he constantly gets beaten up by random heroes that just sucker punch him and win.

 

I would argue that both Horus' and Angron's style of fighting is dirty and underhanded and wins every time less someone starts farting out mind bullets...which admittedly is another form of battle.

 

All primarchs (maybe with the exception of lorgar) are pretty equal fighters and some just excel in different areas.

 

For example- sword duel would prolly pit lion and Fulgrim against each other and be a great and equal fight that you can argue merits.

-gladiator/pit duel could pit Horus, Curze, Angron and Russ.

-aerial combat would be sangy, Corax, and maybe Curze

 

 

Otherwise you just get stupid situations where somebody just pulls a trick out of their sleeve and profits on it

[Wade Garrett]

Kill off a few more of the Primarchs, like the ones that aren't completely necessary to the 40K timeline.

 

It baffles me that so many people wrongly assumed VS is suggesting Black Library kill off a bunch of Primarchs in the Horus Heresy even though the above clearly means something besides "Black Library should kill a bunch more Primarchs during the Horus Heresy."

[Artein]

I've said more than once, and it's not always a popular idea, that since the Black Library has effectively completely discarded the original version(s) of the Horus Heresy, that they continue along that vein and give us some truly epic confrontations at the end.  Kill off a few more of the Primarchs, like the ones that aren't completely necessary to the 40K timeline. 

 

Primarchs that have a significant role in the 40K universe (and don't already die, or "die" in the storyline):

Fulgrim: Has to eventually fight Guilliman and send him into stasis.

Leman Russ: It's his opposition to the Codex that makes the Space Wolves what they are, plus, he gets a tank named after him (where's the Guilliman tank? lol)

Angron: Only Daemon Primarch to actually do much of anything after the Heresy... ever. 

Guilliman: He's rather indispensible to the Great Scouring, and the reformation of the Imperium.

Alpharius: He already gets killed, or "killed" (depending on what iteration or theory you believe, lol) eventually.

 

Primarchs that are more or less expendable:

 

Perturabo: Builds a giant planet of fortifications... and stays there.

Khaaaaaaan!: Presumably grows an even sweeter mustache and then disappears into the warp fighting Dark Eldar*.

Mortarion: Hangs out in the warp for 10,000 years, gets a heart tattoo.

Lorgar: Locks himself in a room writing a book nobody reads.

Vulkan: Disappears, and stays disappeared(?).

Corax: Wanders off into the warp with the worst possible, and most blatantly obvious, literary reference ever. It would do the Raven Guard fans a favor if he was killed in some glorious battle instead, lol.

 

Yes/No/Maybe So Importance:

Dorn: Carries off the Emprah after his confrontation with Horus, fights Perturabo at some point, disappears into a Space Hulk.

Magnus: Gets angry at Ahriman for turning the 1K Sons into dust, Battle of the Fang, but not much else.

 

 

Ultimately, the Horus Heresy has a lot of potential for such great primarch on primarch battles that it would almost be a disservice to not give them to the fans.  And they'd also been pretty silly and lame if none of them ended up as fatal duels.  After all, there's nothing more of a kick in the nuts than a battle to the death that ends up with no death.  We've had enough of those so far, to be honest. 

 

 

*It's important to note that since the Dark Eldar didn't even exist in the game before 1998, this isn't even "original" material.

 

Read your fluff.

 

c.400.M32 Perturabo's Plague - Perturabo does stuff

437.M36 The Green Death - Mortarion does stuff

We also know about 2 times Angron does stuff and 1 time Magnus.

 

Daemonic Primarchs do something from time to time. Rarely. Less and less frequent. But they do. Somethimes.

[[TA]Typher]

 

You mean sucker cowardly punched ? IIRC - Lion knocked Russ when he stopped fightning, and if backstaber didn't save Lion, Curze would choke him to death...+ he is gai, so no P want's to brawl with him...

 

 

You forget, Russ sucker punched the Lion first. That's what started the fight. The Lion took that hit. Sorry, the Wolf Primarch couldn't take a sucker punch back, without passing out.

 

As for Curze.. you really should read more.

The author of that fight even says that it was far from over. Then couple that with the fact that the next time the two met the Lion cut the night haunters throat and put him in a coma.. well I'd say the Lion is 2 for 0.

 

 

So.. yeah.. GG.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

All of them vs Alpharus and Omegron...

 

Personally I'd love to read a Vulkan vs Angron. Unless the fluff or I'm missremembering (it's likley considering I don't remember the source) has changed isn't Vulkan still considered the physically strongest primarch?

 

Khan vs Corax would be and interesting one too...

 

Also, and I realise this is off point, but I'd have liked to have read an alternative ending to First Heretic where Curze didn't save Lorgar.

[Peter the Hermit]

 

 

You mean sucker cowardly punched ? IIRC - Lion knocked Russ when he stopped fightning, and if backstaber didn't save Lion, Curze would choke him to death...+ he is gai, so no P want's to brawl with him...

 

 

You forget, Russ sucker punched the Lion first. That's what started the fight. The Lion took that hit. Sorry, the Wolf Primarch couldn't take a sucker punch back, without passing out.

 

As for Curze.. you really should read more.

The author of that fight even says that it was far from over. Then couple that with the fact that the next time the two met the Lion cut the night haunters throat and put him in a coma.. well I'd say the Lion is 2 for 0.

 

 

So.. yeah.. GG.

Who says Russ went for the knockout (first time)? Also K.O. happend after they fought all day - notice the difference?.Even your codex states that Russ was stronger while Lion was quicker so I would rule out Russ unable to knock Lion out...But nevermind that...

Curze vs Lion was a draw (first duel)???? LOL...I gues Lion was defeating Curze's hands with his neck? Backstaber? He wasn't needed ? Lion had him...*slow clap*

Btw, I think "you" should read before posting biased opinions.....Only duel "dress wearing DA" can win is when they backstab and suckerpunch someone....O I forgot how Sevatar was there too - He was lucky that he escaped because DA  enturage were too much for him:-)

[NemFX]

There are two that I think would be interesting.

 

Sanguinius vs Kurze.

 

or the one I've been long predicting

 

Alpharius vs Omegon.

 

The stealthy civil war.

[Veteran Sergeant]

 

 

 

Read your fluff.

 

c.400.M32 Perturabo's Plague - Perturabo does stuff

437.M36 The Green Death - Mortarion does stuff

We also know about 2 times Angron does stuff and 1 time Magnus.

 

Daemonic Primarchs do something from time to time. Rarely. Less and less frequent. But they do. Somethimes.

You're missing the point.  It's not that they do absolutely nothing, it's that nothing they do is crucial to the Universe.  Since so much has been retconned, or flat-out omitted, those two events are relatively minor and unnecessary to the greater story. 

 

The point is not to get in some kind of angry nitpick contest about which Primarchs are cool, or whether or not you like the idea of one or the other dying.  It's simply that there is room in the universe for a few epic fights to the death that won't cause any irreparable harm to the storyline. 

 

Though we both did fail to list the Iron Cage and I admit something was in my head when I wrote it originally.  That's really only Perturabo's significant contribution post-Heresy to the timeline.  I guess it's up for debate how important of a story it really is. 

[[TA]Typher]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mean sucker cowardly punched ? IIRC - Lion knocked Russ when he stopped fightning, and if backstaber didn't save Lion, Curze would choke him to death...+ he is gai, so no P want's to brawl with him...

 

 

You forget, Russ sucker punched the Lion first. That's what started the fight. The Lion took that hit. Sorry, the Wolf Primarch couldn't take a sucker punch back, without passing out.

 

As for Curze.. you really should read more.

The author of that fight even says that it was far from over. Then couple that with the fact that the next time the two met the Lion cut the night haunters throat and put him in a coma.. well I'd say the Lion is 2 for 0.

 

 

So.. yeah.. GG.

Who says Russ went for the knockout (first time)? Also K.O. happend after they fought all day - notice the difference?.Even your codex states that Russ was stronger while Lion was quicker so I would rule out Russ unable to knock Lion out...But nevermind that...

Curze vs Lion was a draw (first duel)???? LOL...I gues Lion was defeating Curze's hands with his neck? Backstaber? He wasn't needed ? Lion had him...*slow clap*

Btw, I think "you" should read before posting biased opinions.....Only duel "dress wearing DA" can win is when they backstab and suckerpunch someone....O I forgot how Sevatar was there too - He was lucky that he escaped because DA enturage were too much for him:-)

Haha

 

Wait.. So it's the Lions fault

That Russ didn't sucker punch him hard enough? Maybe Russ should work on his impulse control. Just because he said the fight was over doesnt mean that it was. A fight is over when both people stop fighting. Once Russ was defeated... The fight was over.

 

As for the Lions fight with Curze, you are right. Obviously u know more then the author of that book. Maybe you should write him as tell him that he's wrong.

[Izzuan]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mean sucker cowardly punched ? IIRC - Lion knocked Russ when he stopped fightning, and if backstaber didn't save Lion, Curze would choke him to death...+ he is gai, so no P want's to brawl with him...

 

 

You forget, Russ sucker punched the Lion first. That's what started the fight. The Lion took that hit. Sorry, the Wolf Primarch couldn't take a sucker punch back, without passing out.

 

As for Curze.. you really should read more.

The author of that fight even says that it was far from over. Then couple that with the fact that the next time the two met the Lion cut the night haunters throat and put him in a coma.. well I'd say the Lion is 2 for 0.

 

 

So.. yeah.. GG.

Who says Russ went for the knockout (first time)? Also K.O. happend after they fought all day - notice the difference?.Even your codex states that Russ was stronger while Lion was quicker so I would rule out Russ unable to knock Lion out...But nevermind that...

Curze vs Lion was a draw (first duel)???? LOL...I gues Lion was defeating Curze's hands with his neck? Backstaber? He wasn't needed ? Lion had him...*slow clap*

Btw, I think "you" should read before posting biased opinions.....Only duel "dress wearing DA" can win is when they backstab and suckerpunch someone....O I forgot how Sevatar was there too - He was lucky that he escaped because DA enturage were too much for him:-)

Haha

 

Wait.. So it's the Lions fault

That Russ didn't sucker punch him hard enough? Maybe Russ should work on his impulse control. Just because he said the fight was over doesnt mean that it was. A fight is over when both people stop fighting. Once Russ was defeated... The fight was over.

 

As for the Lions fight with Curze, you are right. Obviously u know more then the author of that book. Maybe you should write him as tell him that he's wrong.

 

 

^^^^^

This to the thousandth degree.

[DarthMarko]

 

 

Wait.. So it's the Lions fault

That Russ didn't sucker punch him hard enough? Maybe Russ should work on his impulse control. Just because he said the fight was over doesnt mean that it was. A fight is over when both people stop fighting. Once Russ was defeated... The fight was over.

 

As for the Lions fight with Curze, you are right. Obviously u know more then the author of that book. Maybe you should write him as tell him that he's wrong.

For Russ the fight was over... and only reason Lion was pissed is because he though Russ was laughing at his pathetic skill + this was after full 12 rounds ...

And Curze was beating him (ofc author said something to cheer you fanboys, even thou the book doesn't mention anything other then the famous backstaber) and Sevatar beat other DA...So I'm with Peter...

[Peter the Hermit]

 

 

Wait.. So it's the Lions fault

That Russ didn't sucker punch him hard enough? Maybe Russ should work on his impulse control. Just because he said the fight was over doesnt mean that it was. A fight is over when both people stop fighting. Once Russ was defeated... The fight was over.

 

As for the Lions fight with Curze, you are right. Obviously u know more then the author of that book. Maybe you should write him as tell him that he's wrong.

For Russ the fight was over... and only reason Lion was pissed is because he though Russ was laughing at his pathetic skill + this was after full 12 rounds ...

And Curze was beating him (ofc author said something to cheer you fanboys, even thou the book doesn't mention anything other then the famous backstaber) and Sevatar beat other DA...So I'm with Peter...

Lion had Curze..Don't you see? His neck mucles were to strong for Curze's hands...Who cares about the backstaber, he wasn't needed, Lion clearly had him...Also who cares about the book...if author tells fanboys  1+1 = 0 you have to belive that...Again nevermind the book and obvious facts cuz we are too dumb to understand the chapter....

Now reading again...and putting my money on Lion, LOL

Just for kicks

Curze is on the top of Lion choking him to death....

Backstaber sees that and goes "Bah, Lion will win this" I rather go to kill that wuss Jago...