[TA]Typher Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Wait.. So it's the Lions fault That Russ didn't sucker punch him hard enough? Maybe Russ should work on his impulse control. Just because he said the fight was over doesnt mean that it was. A fight is over when both people stop fighting. Once Russ was defeated... The fight was over. As for the Lions fight with Curze, you are right. Obviously u know more then the author of that book. Maybe you should write him as tell him that he's wrong. For Russ the fight was over... and only reason Lion was pissed is because he though Russ was laughing at his pathetic skill + this was after full 12 rounds ...And Curze was beating him (ofc author said something to cheer you fanboys, even thou the book doesn't mention anything other then the famous backstaber) and Sevatar beat other DA...So I'm with Peter... It's funny that Russ suddenly stopped the fight. He couldn't best Jonson and he couldn't bully him. So he tried to laugh the whole event off, which left him on his back. I like Russ, but he wrote a check that his butt couldn't cash. Calling the Lion's skill pathetic only shows that Russ couldn't beat a "pathetic" person. So your point only makes the Wolf Lord look worse. Fortunaltely for him.. You're very wrong. As for the Lions first fight with the Night Lord, he wasn't doing well, but the fight was far from over. Or at least thats what the guy who wrote is said.. After the second fight it was very clear who won. At this point in the heresy I think only Ferrus took a worse beating and he died. Months in a coma with your legion all thinking you're dead says a lot. All three of those Primarchs are great, some of my favorites. The fact remains though that Curze was beat hands down. Russ however was only beat in a fist fight, which is different than a swordfight. Either way the Lion is a bad mofo! You can be a fanboy all you want. Facts are facts. The Lion has some serious flaws.. Fighting isn't one of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3325877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 You are forgeting that neither p could take the top and that Russ was laughing after he realized how imature their brawl was......Even if you go all DA it was an even fight... Like you codex say they were perfectly balaced Russ was a bit stronger and Lion was a bit quicker I don't see how that suckerblow favors him too much... Also about Curze - you are in serious denial...but ok, we all know to read and to comprenhend some basic stuff, we don't need author to soothe our bruised pride.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3325894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 You are forgeting that neither p could take the top and that Russ was laughing after he realized how imature their brawl was......Even if you go all DA it was an even fight... Like you codex say they were perfectly balaced Russ was a bit stronger and Lion was a bit quicker I don't see how that suckerblow favors him too much... Also about Curze - you are in serious denial...but ok, we all know to read and to comprenhend some basic stuff, we don't need author to soothe our bruised pride.... I agree, the Lion and Russ are pretty even. But, you have to admit that Russ started that fight and a fight isn't over until BOTH people quit. Just because Russ quit doesn't mean that the fight is over. As for Curse, you should read more. The Lion almost killed him. Read "prince of Crows" You can also read a litle about it here http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lion_El'Jonson#.UT6JKPq9Kc0 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3325918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I did read it, and I don't dispute the seconds time result...Only first....which is pretty obvious IMHO....just not to the fans....kidding Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3325968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 It's funny that Russ suddenly stopped the fight. He couldn't best Jonson and he couldn't bully him. So he tried to laugh the whole event off, which left him on his back. I like Russ, but he wrote a check that his butt couldn't cash. Calling the Lion's skill pathetic only shows that Russ couldn't beat a "pathetic" person. So your point only makes the Wolf Lord look worse. Fortunaltely for him.. You're very wrong. As for the Lions first fight with the Night Lord, he wasn't doing well, but the fight was far from over. Or at least thats what the guy who wrote is said.. After the second fight it was very clear who won. At this point in the heresy I think only Ferrus took a worse beating and he died. Months in a coma with your legion all thinking you're dead says a lot. All three of those Primarchs are great, some of my favorites. The fact remains though that Curze was beat hands down. Russ however was only beat in a fist fight, which is different than a swordfight. Either way the Lion is a bad mofo! You can be a fanboy all you want. Facts are facts. The Lion has some serious flaws.. Fighting isn't one of them. I'm with Typher here yes the Lion has issues but by the end of the heresy he is one of only three (maybe four depending on the Gilliman theories) Primarchs to have killed or atleast come close to killing another Primarch so you can't really question his martial prowess. Although, did Ferrus actually take a beating? From what I remember of Fulgrim it was an even fight blow for blow until Fulgrim struck his head off. With the Lion and Curze, both times, they had inflicted huge amounts of damage on each other when Curze goes down he's split open, his throat is sliced not to mention the five other critical injuries the NL Captins mention would kill a regular astartes. With regards to the 'sucker punching' argument yes the Lion does attack, almost, without provocation the first time (arguably one of my favourite lines in the heresy so far. 'I'm sorry... for such an unworthy blow.') but, and this will probably get me lynched by Night Lords fans, the only way Curze survives that first fight is by fighting dirty. At least as I read it the Lion is winning until Curze dives ontop of him and starts shashing and choaking him. Yes I do realise that is his fighting style and I am not saying he is not a superlative fighter mearly pointing out you can hardly fault the Lion for 'Suckerpunching' when Curze's style is Suckerpunching only on an epic scale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3326351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Now now girls, no reason to fight. You're all the belle of the ball. No Primarch has a clear advantage over another one, this has been said many times (even though it's selectively ignored). Just because Curze defeats Johnson in one encounter, doesn't mean it will happen again (and Johnson does in fact defeat Curze). It's all circumstantial. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3326438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Only one Primarch is better than the others--Horus. They all have their niches, skills, and abilities but only Horus is consistently stated as being better than the rest.I'm sure the lion is probably an amazing sword-fighter but look at Lucius and Loken. American football reference "Any given Sunday" anyone can beat anyone. Russ is kinda silly. He attacks out of anger(we don't know what kinda blow was struck, a shove? did a he throw a severed head?) then when he has enough he calls it quits. The Lion is an eye for an eye and strikes him unaware knocking him out. I'm sure Russ is more than capable of doing that as well but he didn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3326742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 This thread was about fights that didn't happen, I think we have established that DarthMarko is a fan of the Space Wolves and russ, so his viewpoint is pretty obvious. But we know the results of those fight (Russ punched out, that's not disputed, and in Lion vs Night Haunter, a draw in the first fight, heavy victory for the Lion in the rematch) I'd like to have seen Corax fight a few more Primarchs, he reckons only Horus and Angron could trouble him in Deliverance Lost. Corax vs Sang anyone? Ariel duel between two lethal mofos! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3326889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 This thread was about fights that didn't happen, I think we have established that DarthMarko is a fan of the Space Wolves and russ, so his viewpoint is pretty obvious. But we know the results of those fight (Russ punched out, that's not disputed, and in Lion vs Night Haunter, a draw in the first fight, heavy victory for the Lion in the rematch) I'd like to have seen Corax fight a few more Primarchs, he reckons only Horus and Angron could trouble him in Deliverance Lost. Corax vs Sang anyone? Ariel duel between two lethal mofos! I did always question that moment when Corax doubts his abilitys vs Angron if I'm honest, I'm aware it's probably just him self doubting and he was pourly eqipped at the time. Personally I think full equiped Corax; jumppack, talons, heavy bolter and whip would wipe to floor with Angron. As someone said on one of the last pages Angrons weaknesses are quite clear, yes if he caught Corax he'd be screwed BUT if Corax fought like a matador vs a very dangerous bull I think he could win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3326912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I did always question that moment when Corax doubts his abilitys vs Angron if I'm honest, I'm aware it's probably just him self doubting and he was pourly eqipped at the time. Personally I think full equiped Corax; jumppack, talons, heavy bolter and whip would wipe to floor with Angron. As someone said on one of the last pages Angrons weaknesses are quite clear, yes if he caught Corax he'd be screwed BUT if Corax fought like a matador vs a very dangerous bull I think he could win. Maybe if Corax sneak attacks or outflanks him using his troops like Russ did which is hard to do considering they were being outflanked at Istvaan. In straight up fight though, Corax's chances are pretty slim. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3326963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I did always question that moment when Corax doubts his abilitys vs Angron if I'm honest, I'm aware it's probably just him self doubting and he was pourly eqipped at the time. Personally I think full equiped Corax; jumppack, talons, heavy bolter and whip would wipe to floor with Angron. As someone said on one of the last pages Angrons weaknesses are quite clear, yes if he caught Corax he'd be screwed BUT if Corax fought like a matador vs a very dangerous bull I think he could win. Maybe if Corax sneak attacks or outflanks him using his troops like Russ did which is hard to do considering they were being outflanked at Istvaan. In straight up fight though, Corax's chances are pretty slim. In an arena Primarch vs Primarch both fully armed I think Corax has the edge. He can use his jump pack to evade Angron indeffinitely, Angron is easily goded into attacking AND I don't think there's ever been a record of Angron wearing a helmet. I admit in a face to face blow for blow fight Corax would go down but that isn't how he fights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3326968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 In an arena Primarch vs Primarch both fully armed I think Corax has the edge. He can use his jump pack to evade Angron indeffinitely, Angron is easily goded into attacking AND I don't think there's ever been a record of Angron wearing a helmet. I admit in a face to face blow for blow fight Corax would go down but that isn't how he fights. Dunno, man. He tried that on pre-Istvaan Lorgar, losing one of his lightning claws and the combat still degenerated into face to face fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3326978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 In an arena Primarch vs Primarch both fully armed I think Corax has the edge. He can use his jump pack to evade Angron indeffinitely, Angron is easily goded into attacking AND I don't think there's ever been a record of Angron wearing a helmet. I admit in a face to face blow for blow fight Corax would go down but that isn't how he fights. Dunno, man. He tried that on pre-Istvaan Lorgar, losing one of his lightning claws and the combat still degenerated into face to face fight. Ahh Lorgar *hacks and spits* to be fair I've not read Betrayer yet but I just think Corax's skill is seaking out his enemies weak points. Angron doesn't wear a helmet or use projectile weapons those seem like two obvious things the Raven could use to his advantage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3326982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0lfie Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 You know, for the Executioner Primarch, Russ's track record against his brothers (L-the Lion, L-Angron, W-Magnus*) *thanks to interference from his wolves and an extremely lucky shot He was probably the one who killed the two 'missing' primarchs, however, That would put him at 3-2. Ones I would like to see are Dorn vs. Perturabo Dorn vs. Guilliman ("I'll show you where you can shove your codex!) Manus vs. Mortarion (The strongest, physically, versus the most resilient) Horus vs. Angron Angron vs. Fulgrim (BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD) Sanguinius vs. Lion El'Johnson (The Emperor's Angel vs. The Master of the Fallen Angels) Sanguinius vs. Russ (Executioner stuff happening because of the red thirst?) Sanguinius vs. Guilliman (Because Guilliman DESERVES to lose). Dorn vs. Lion El'Johnson (The single most loyal primarch, whose legion served as the Emperor's praetorians, against the...sketchiest loyalist. Plus, knight-based primarch vs. Knight based primarch). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0lfie Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 In an arena Primarch vs Primarch both fully armed I think Corax has the edge. He can use his jump pack to evade Angron indeffinitely, Angron is easily goded into attacking AND I don't think there's ever been a record of Angron wearing a helmet. I admit in a face to face blow for blow fight Corax would go down but that isn't how he fights. Dunno, man. He tried that on pre-Istvaan Lorgar, losing one of his lightning claws and the combat still degenerated into face to face fight. Well when he fought Lorgar ON Istvaan, he didn't need to do anything fancy. He knew that Lorgar was probably the one primarch (or two, or three, depending on alpha legion shenanigans) that he could just attack like a power house and still win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Russ is kinda silly. He attacks out of anger(we don't know what kinda blow was struck, a shove? did a he throw a severed head?) then when he has enough he calls it quits. The Lion is an eye for an eye and strikes him unaware knocking him out. I'm sure Russ is more than capable of doing that as well but he didn't.Russ punching him on the jaw, according to UK WD 117 page 57. The duel that followed supposedly lasted for a week or more. A different source has it as a blow to the head and a fight that lasted all day and night (more reasonable, imo). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Manus vs. Mortarion (The strongest, physically, versus the most resilient) I thought Vulkan was the strongest or has that changed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Sanguinius vs. Lion El'Johnson (The Emperor's Angel vs. The Master of the Fallen Angels) Dorn vs. Lion El'Johnson (The single most loyal primarch, whose legion served as the Emperor's praetorians, against the...sketchiest loyalist.;Plus, knight-based primarch vs. Knight based primarch). Either your information is limited or you have access to books that I don't. The Lion isn't the disloyal. He's totally loyal to the Imperium and the Emperor. They make that obviously clear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Dorn vs. Guilliman ("I'll show you where you can shove your codex!) I think Dorn probably quite appreciated the Codex Astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Dorn vs. Guilliman ("I'll show you where you can shove your codex!) I think Dorn probably quite appreciated the Codex Astartes. Seeing how the old fluff almost had the two Primarchs go to war over it after the Heresy I'd agree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I only know the bit where Dorn does not want to divide his Legion. I missed the bit where he had a problem with a comprehensive manual on Space Marine doctrines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I only know the bit where Dorn does not want to divide his Legion. I missed the bit where he had a problem with a comprehensive manual on Space Marine doctrines. In the old fluff the ultra marines actually have a brief space battle with the Fists because Dorn doesn't want to follow the Codex and divide his legion. I don't remember if there are causalities. It's been along time since I read it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0lfie Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 . At least as I read it the Lion is winning until Curze dives ontop of him and starts shashing and choaking him. Yes I do realise that is his fighting style and I am not saying he is not a superlative fighter mearly pointing out you can hardly fault the Lion for 'Suckerpunching' when Curze's style is Suckerpunching only on an epic scale. Plus, Curze did that exact same sucker punching thing to Dorn. They are bickering about tactics, and all of a sudden Curze just spazzes and attacks Dorn like a sneaky snake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0lfie Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Sanguinius vs. Lion El'Johnson (The Emperor's Angel vs. The Master of the Fallen Angels) Dorn vs. Lion El'Johnson (The single most loyal primarch, whose legion served as the Emperor's praetorians, against the...sketchiest loyalist.;Plus, knight-based primarch vs. Knight based primarch). Either your information is limited or you have access to books that I don't. The Lion isn't the disloyal. He's totally loyal to the Imperium and the Emperor. They make that obviously clear. He waited to see which side was going to win before choosing to remain loyal. Either way though, the thought would have been better expressed as "sire" rather than "master". As an added note, reading the background for Cypher makes one wonder which group of angels are really the traitors. @DIV, Manus has always been the most physically powerful Primarch, probably followed by Vulkan. A direct result, I would assume, of the fact that he spent his childhood seeking physical challenges to improve himself, rather than joining the tribes/cities of his native world. Also, he forged machinery by bending metal with his hands instead of using a forge and a hammer. He gets bonus points for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I only know the bit where Dorn does not want to divide his Legion. I missed the bit where he had a problem with a comprehensive manual on Space Marine doctrines. In the old fluff the ultra marines actually have a brief space battle with the Fists because Dorn doesn't want to follow the Codex and divide his legion. I don't remember if there are causalities. It's been along time since I read it. According to the Black Templars Index Astartes article, and later also the Codex Black Templars, p. 6, due to the Imperial Fists' refusal to obey Imperial decree they were at some point briefly "violently persecuted for their supposed heresies", which culminated in the Imperial Fists' Strike Cruiser 'Terrible Angel' being fired upon by the Imperial Navy. In the Black Templars lore, that is the reason why Dorn finally relented and agreed to divide his Legion. Of course, in the Imperial Fists lore, Dorn came to that decision by himself, after supposedly receiving a vision of the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271939-primach-showdown-the-ones-that-didnt-happen/page/4/#findComment-3327646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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