Primach Showdown - the ones that didn't happen!

[SirAstartes]

I really want to see Dorn go against a Primarch in combat, I think when Terra comes around I might get my wish from what I heard in the Crimson Fist.

 

 

Sigismund is told that his father will need him before the end

 

 

Also I think they may change who Sanguinius fights at the eternity gate, since

 

 

he so easily beat down Ka'Bandha in Fear to Tread, IRC there is some old fluff that Angron offers terms to Sanguinius at the siege before gets into full swing, I personally think it would be fantastic if it was Angron that has his back broke at the Eternity gate instead of Ka'Bandha, it would make a lot more sense for having Sanguinius worn out and battered down for the Horus duel after facing down Daemon form Angron

[Deus Imperator Vult]

I really want to see Dorn go against a Primarch in combat, I think when Terra comes around I might get my wish from what I heard in the Crimson Fist.

 

 

Sigismund is told that his father will need him before the end

 

 

Also I think they may change who Sanguinius fights at the eternity gate, since

 

 

he so easily beat down Ka'Bandha in Fear to Tread, IRC there is some old fluff that Angron offers terms to Sanguinius at the siege before gets into full swing, I personally think it would be fantastic if it was Angron that has his back broke at the Eternity gate instead of Ka'Bandha, it would make a lot more sense for having Sanguinius worn out and battered down for the Horus duel after facing down Daemon form Angron

Personally I want each of the loyalist primarchs at the battle to fight atleast one of their brothers. The Khan making a lightening raid on Purturabos command center, Dorn throwing Fulgrim from the walls by his pretty hair and yeah Sanguinnius vs Angron would be ineresting ... I think it could go similar to how I was describing a hypothetics Corax vs Angron fight though. All he would need to do is continually provoke Angron and fly around him to strike him from behind. Better yet do we know if the Emperor takes the field as the siege? Somehow I cant just see him doing a Magnus and sitting round while his sons are killed. Theres a scene for you deamon Angron charging the Emperor.

[cypher371]

 

 

 

Sanguinius vs. Lion El'Johnson (The Emperor's Angel vs. The Master of the Fallen Angels)

 

Dorn vs. Lion El'Johnson (The single most loyal primarch, whose legion served as the Emperor's praetorians, against the...sketchiest loyalist.;Plus, knight-based primarch vs. Knight based primarch).

Either your information is limited or you have access to books that I don't.

 

The Lion isn't the disloyal. He's totally loyal to the Imperium and the Emperor. They make that obviously clear.

He waited to see which side was going to win before choosing to remain loyal.  Either way though, the thought would have been better expressed as "sire" rather than "master".  As an added note, reading the background for Cypher makes one  wonder which group of angels are really the traitors.

 

As Far as am aware - that certain perspectives made it look to appear that he waited to see who was winning (mostly fallen angel propaganda)  but in actuality during the warp travel he got ambushed by the nightlords which, further delayed him and lead to the Jonson - Curze showdowns that everyones been mentioning beforehand? (correct me if i'm wrong - but am sure it was in one of the short stories)

[Aegnor]

This thread has turned out about how you'd expect.

 

I'd like to see Vulkan and Jaghatai Khan really fighting, and a duel with a primarch is probably the main way we're likely to do so.

 

One thing I will add with regards to Russ getting beaten is that in that instance, his side won the battle. Winning battles/wars =/= winning duels.

[[TA]Typher]

 

This thread has turned out about how you'd expect.

 

 

 

One thing I will add with regards to Russ getting beaten is that in that instance, his side won the battle. Winning battles/wars =/= winning duels.

I think that was Russ's point. That you can win a battle, but in the process lose the war. A point which Angron and his legion never understood. After reading Betrayer I really think that Russ let Angron win. I'm not saying that Angron couldn't win if Russ really tried, just that Russ wanted Angron to go bezerk and break ranks so he could prove his point, you win the battle, but you lose the war.

 

Would the World Eaters beat the Wolves on the field of battle? Hands down yes I would think. However, when the dust settled the Wolves would have a Primarch and the World Eaters wouldn't. If the two really fought to the death during that engagement, the battles after the first would have favored the Wolves dramatically.

[Aegnor]

Assembling and lining up opposite the World Eaters also wouldn't be how they'd have deployed if they'd planned to fight as opposed to making a show of force. Head to head is the World Eaters game - the Wolves are a bit more cunning in how and where they apply their brute force.

[b1soul]

Actually, I would've like to see Lion vs. Curze round 2 in greater detail

 

...in Prince of Crows, we only saw how it ended

Curze's throat slit

 

[Hyaenidae]

The Night Haunter and Sanguinius. I'm not sure why, but I have an image in my head of those two going at it, with their sons all about them tearing into each other, within a beautiful forest of carved marble statues, in the most torrential rainstorm possible.

 

Oh, hells yes.

[Brother Bovus]

This might have been mentioned already, but Vulkan and Perturabo.  Vulkan was apparently looking for this fight on Isstvan V, according to some short story I think.

 

I imagine them just smashing each other to pulp with their enormous hammers.  Sounds good to me!

[Deus Imperator Vult]

Actually, I would've like to see Lion vs. Curze round 2 in greater detail

 

...in Prince of Crows, we only saw how it ended

In a way I think its a more effective story telling device that you don't see the fight just the Lions 'killing' blow then the apothecarys description of his wounds. 'Several organs that he couldn't even name are broken.'

 

This might have been mentioned already, but Vulkan and Perturabo.  Vulkan was apparently looking for this fight on Isstvan V, according to some short story I think.

 

I imagine them just smashing each other to pulp with their enormous hammers.  Sounds good to me!

That scene was in 'forgotten Sons' if I remember rightly. It has Vulkan flipping a predator over with his barehands then charging forward yelling Perturabos name.

[Brother Bovus]

 

Actually, I would've like to see Lion vs. Curze round 2 in greater detail

 

...in Prince of Crows, we only saw how it ended

In a way I think its a more effective story telling device that you don't see the fight just the Lions 'killing' blow then the apothecarys description of his wounds. 'Several organs that he couldn't even name are broken.'

 

>This might have been mentioned already, but Vulkan and Perturabo.  Vulkan was apparently looking for this fight on Isstvan V, according to some short story I think.

 

I imagine them just smashing each other to pulp with their enormous hammers.  Sounds good to me!

That scene was in 'forgotten Sons' if I remember rightly. It has Vulkan flipping a predator over with his barehands then charging forward yelling Perturabos name.

 

 

That's the one!  I have to cling to bits like that because my favorite primach has gotten so little facetime in the HH series up to this point. 

[Deus Imperator Vult]

 

 

Actually, I would've like to see Lion vs. Curze round 2 in greater detail

 

...in Prince of Crows, we only saw how it ended

In a way I think its a more effective story telling device that you don't see the fight just the Lions 'killing' blow then the apothecarys description of his wounds. 'Several organs that he couldn't even name are broken.'

 

>This might have been mentioned already, but Vulkan and Perturabo.  Vulkan was apparently looking for this fight on Isstvan V, according to some short story I think.

 

I imagine them just smashing each other to pulp with their enormous hammers.  Sounds good

to me!

That scene was in 'forgotten Sons' if I remember rightly. It has Vulkan flipping a predator over with his barehands then charging forward yelling Perturabos name.

 

That's the one!  I have to cling to bits like that because my favorite primach has gotten so little facetime in the HH series up to this point. 

 

Agreed Vulkan is probably one of my three favourites and so far the other two (Dorn and Corax) haven't had the best showings in the books so far. I don't like all this stuff about Dorn being afraid and I won't even bother mentioning the injustice done to Corax in Deliverance Lost. Bring on Vulkan Lives! I want to see the Lord of Salamanders pulp some traitors perferably Alpha Legion but I'm not fussed.

[W0lfie]

 

I really want to see Dorn go against a Primarch in combat, I think when Terra comes around I might get my wish from what I heard in the Crimson Fist.

 

 

Sigismund is told that his father will need him before the end

 

 

Also I think they may change who Sanguinius fights at the eternity gate, since

 

 

he so easily beat down Ka'Bandha in Fear to Tread, IRC there is some old fluff that Angron offers terms to Sanguinius at the siege before gets into full swing, I personally think it would be fantastic if it was Angron that has his back broke at the Eternity gate instead of Ka'Bandha, it would make a lot more sense for having Sanguinius worn out and battered down for the Horus duel after facing down Daemon form Angron

 

Personally I want each of the loyalist primarchs at the battle to fight atleast one of their brothers. The Khan making a lightening raid on Purturabos command center, Dorn throwing Fulgrim from the walls by his pretty hair and yeah Sanguinnius vs Angron would be ineresting ... I think it could go similar to how I was describing a hypothetics Corax vs Angron fight though. All he would need to do is continually provoke Angron and fly around him to strike him from behind. Better yet do we know if the Emperor takes the field as the siege? Somehow I cant just see him doing a Magnus and sitting round while his sons are killed. Theres a scene for you deamon Angron charging the Emperor.

I'm Pretty sure the Emperor was dealing with the whole "warp gate in the throne room" thing at the time.  

 

 

 

Actually, I would've like to see Lion vs. Curze round 2 in greater detail

 

...in Prince of Crows, we only saw how it ended

In a way I think its a more effective story telling device that you don't see the fight just the Lions 'killing' blow then the apothecarys description of his wounds. 'Several organs that he couldn't even name are broken.'

 

>This might have been mentioned already, but Vulkan and Perturabo.  Vulkan was apparently looking for this fight on Isstvan V, according to some short story I think.

 

I imagine them just smashing each other to pulp with their enormous hammers.  Sounds good

to me!

That scene was in 'forgotten Sons' if I remember rightly. It has Vulkan flipping a predator over with his barehands then charging forward yelling Perturabos name.

 

That's the one!  I have to cling to bits like that because my favorite primach has gotten so little facetime in the HH series up to this point. 

 

To be fair, Tu'shan bench pressed a land raider, and he was only a space marine.  Vulkan needs to step his game up! :)

[Deus Imperator Vult]

I seem to remember the tank Vulkan casually flips over in Forgotten Sons was a Land Raider but that must be me misremembering or a plot hole cause the STC for land raiders wasnt descovered til post heresy was it? Technically Tu'Shan does have Tsu'Gans help although, unless its been re-written, Tu'shan is described as the physically strongest astartes alive.

[Daemon2027]

Alpharius vs Omegon

 

'I have the upper hand, I know his every move'

[Brother-Kezek]

You mean sucker cowardly punched ? IIRC - Lion knocked Russ when he stopped fightning, and if backstaber didn't save Lion, Curze would choke him to death...+ he is gai, so no P want's to brawl with him...

I recall Russ throwing the first "sucker punch". But really, A fight between primarchs is a fight between equals. Battle field conditions and luck will determine the outcome. example, Argon may have won the duel, but if the space wolves really thought thier primarch was going to be killed, they would have filled Argon with bolter and plasma rounds.

[Vesper]

I seem to remember the tank Vulkan casually flips over in Forgotten Sons was a Land Raider but that must be me misremembering or a plot hole cause the STC for land raiders wasnt descovered til post heresy was it? Technically Tu'Shan does have Tsu'Gans help although, unless its been re-written, Tu'shan is described as the physically strongest astartes alive.

Ehhh...

The Land Raiders were already discovered pre-heresy. All Legions had LR.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I seem to remember the tank Vulkan casually flips over in Forgotten Sons was a Land Raider but that must be me misremembering or a plot hole cause the STC for land raiders wasnt descovered til post heresy was it? Technically Tu'Shan does have Tsu'Gans help although, unless its been re-written, Tu'shan is described as the physically strongest astartes alive.

 

Nope, the Land Raider has been around since the Great Crusade.  Like the Rhino, they used to be so prevalent that even Imperial Army units had them.  It wasn't until after the devastation of the Heresy and the purge of the Dark Mechanicus elements on Mars that things like Rhinos and Land Raiders became so rare than only the Best of the Best of the Best were allowed to have them.

[Ravenfeld]

Personally I wish the Fulgrim vs. Manus fight had been prolonged, expanded, somehow made more spectacular. I mean, Manus died, I am fine with this as it made my chapter what it is today (for better or worse). Yet I can't help but feel that Manus could have made for some epic fights down the line.

 

Manus vs. Mortarion - Stubborn determination abounds, the plague of rust versus the man of metal.

Manus vs. Angron - Fury versus Fury, this would devolve into a brawl in no time flat.

Manus vs. Cruze - Stealth versus forward thinking, brute force versus agility.

 

Really any primarch fighting any primarch makes for an interesting clash of skill since they are all products of their upbringings and specializations. I think the only reason why people rate certain primarchs above others in combat is because of the fact that some primarchs are more "cerebral" in their application to war, while others are just there to hit stuff. No, skipping Manus completely I would like to see:

 

Mortarion vs. Vulkan - Conviction versus Compassion.

Corax vs. Curze - Raven versus Bat! Aerial combat abounds.

Horus vs. Angron - Alpha Male versus Omega. The master and the hound.

 

Really there is so many cool match ups! I wouldn't even be out for blood, I just want to see how the tactics of each primarch match up with the others. If I had my way I'd want every Loyalist Primarch to have a go at each traitor Primarch at least once... but that is obviously not going to happen...

 

That reminds me, You traitorous dogs owe me a Primarch Head, give me back Manus' skull you jerks!

[Aias]

Alpharius vs Omegon

 

'I have the upper hand, I know his every move'

I really think this one is likely. From what I've seen of the Alpha Legion so far in the Heresy, Alpharius and Omegeon are headed in two different directions. Omegeon really seems to be more backstabby and into the whole Heretical shtick as evidenced by Deliverance Lost and the story in The Primarchs, while it seems Alpharius is less so.

 

As much as the Heresy is a brother's war, the showdown between Alpharius and Omegeon is even more so. I could see Omegeon leading a smaller rebellion, trying to claim his day in the sun. I mean, he's definitely the forgotten primarch; after all, what is the name of every single trooper in the Legion? Alpharius. What name does everyone know the Twentieth Primarch by, even he rest of his brothers? Alpharius. He would want what is his by birthright. I honestly expect this battle to happen sooner or later.

[Kais Klip]

I would slap the entire BL team one by one for it, but at the same time I'd do the same thing were I them. If that showdown ever happens, Aias, I almost guarantee we'll never be certain just which one of the two survived!

I can already imagine my frustration now: the Omegon splinter is crushed, bolters are trained on the winner who staggers out of the wrecked bridge room battered and bloodied, a primarch corpse wrapped in shadow left behind, damaged beyond recognition as the blast doors close and are vented into space, the weakened plastiglass finally giving out. Upon query:

"I... I am Alpharius."

[Vesper]

 

Dorn throwing Fulgrim from the walls by his pretty hair

I don't think Dorn would stand half a chance against Daemon Primarch Fulgrim. It would be an embarrassingly one sided fight.

 

I side with Kais Klip on the Alpharius vs Omegon stuff. It would most likely be very bad. Those characters deserve better.

[Aias]

I would slap the entire BL team one by one for it, but at the same time I'd do the same thing were I them. 

 

 

 

I side with Kais Klip on the Alpharius vs Omegon stuff. It would most likely be very bad. Those characters deserve better.

 

 

Agreed on both counts. It could easily be a horrible, horrible situation in the hands of the wrong writer. Abnett or ADB could probably do it, but other than that, it would have to be a deliberately vague situation. Maybe no clear winner and the twins split the Legion between them, something of that nature. But I think it's going to happen.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

 

 

Dorn throwing Fulgrim from the walls by his pretty hair

I don't think Dorn would stand half a chance against Daemon Primarch Fulgrim. It would be an embarrassingly one sided fight.

I think that would come down to who wrote it. I mean yes there is evidence that Daemon Fulgrim is stronger than Gulliman BUT thus far in the heresy the only fight Dorns had has been bitch slapping Garro across a room. We know nothing about how he fights or his strengths.

 

Is it just me or is with all thats been written about Angron is it starting to look more and more like he would be one of the easier Primarchs to kill? I just keep thinking nearly anyone can gode him into charging and there's only one instance of him retreating. I think nearly any of his brothers could kill him 1vs1 (i've not read Betrayer yet so I'm not sure about this buisness with Russ)

[Kais Klip]

On the contrary, I think Angron comes into his own in any kind of arena fight (Gladiator King), and narrative wise a character remarks that its possible only Horus and maybe Sanguinius would hold their ground against him, and we are shown him defeating Guilliman in one instance and Russ the other. Betrayer, and specifically the Night of the Wolf, really is the book on the subject.

Angron's very strength, as he himself points out, is the Nails, specifically that there isn't much defence against an attacker that only cares about offence.

Your latter point, that on luring him to his death, is very much spot on. The only problem is, the very means by which you would lure him, his Nails, is an attribute rampant (sorry) throughout his whole legion. However you lure him, you can be sure that the rest of the legion would be very much lured alongside him. Though not, it must be said, specifically to stand behind him.