question with bikes

[DavidKits]

Hey guys need some advise here. I am playing in a fun campaign with some friends at the local GW that I'm hosting. I have 3 army lists and one of them is my speed army (taking as much of the fast attack options as i can) and in it I have a unit of bikes! because well.. i just want to try a few rounds and play with bikes :P

 

 anyway I want to make the unit effective and survivable now i know the only real marks and such to give are from Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle for different reasons but i am curious your guys ideas on what would be a fun bike unit to play with that still would be cost effective in some way. I already plan for the unit to have 2 meltas, Meltabombs and a power maul but want some ideas from all of you guys to think over.

 

 Cheers and thanks for any help you guys can give.

 

David.

[happybounce]

Depends on what you want the unit to do!  Is it just for tank-hunting?  What are the other fast attack options in your army?

 

I can't say much for other bike loadouts, but for Khorne bikes the Icon of Wrath (while expensive) is totally worth it.  I hardly ever fail charges, being able to re-roll the charge result is amazing.  BUT if you're only running a few bikes that's a pretty expensive upgrade for a unit that's not super durable.  If you are just having a few and using them for tank-hunting/fire support (like four to six bikes) Mark of Nurgle will help em stay alive a little longer.  

 

I love our fast attack options, it's my favorite part of our list right now.  What else are you running?

[DavidKits]

no problem bounce :) glad to get some ideas, Right now i'm considering doing a 5 to 10 man unit i'm still curious either way, if i take the 5 man unit I have a pack of 6 raptors with 2 plasmaguns, a plaspistol, lightning claw m-bombs, and i think gift can't remember (trying to be a theme for all my word bearer units so the sarges have gift ... all of em :P)) and my other option i walk around with is a Heldrake with a baleflamer only one :P

 

 so i feel i have a decent level of anti infantry and the bikes bolters give me a bit more hence why I'm thinking the meltas, now the 3 armies on the loyalist side in my campaign are black templars, Dark Angels, and Imperial guard. <.<

[happybounce]

Nice, Word Bearers are sweet!  

 

I run raptors as well--there's a whole thread on here, "Raptor success story", that outlines a lot of what people think the pros/cons are.  

 

As for the Fast Attack, if I were you I would run either a full squad of Raptors OR a big squad of bikes.  If you like your 6 raptors to drop in and suicide squad, go big with the bikes.  I like melta on my raptors and plasma on my bikes because they are relentless, but I run very differently.  Or do you only have points for either one big squad of bikes or a small squad of bikes and a small squad of raptors?  If that's the case I personally would go with one full squad of bikes, but I like to go full (or large) squad size.

 

Another awesome thing about bikes?  Veterans of the Long War for only one point a model.  This is TOTALLY worth it.  In close combat against loyalist armies it makes bikes a really sweet close combat unit, AND it applies to the melta bombs for your Champ.  And if you are running only a few bikes it will help you not break as easily if you lose a guy or two.

[zyl-]

I second plasma on bikes and melta on raptors due to relentless.

[the jeske]

ah . and what for . if you have a chaos HQ in that unit and 2 melta shots and some combi bolters are not enough to pre soften the unit your planing to charge , then doing the same with 2 more plasma shots is probably not a good idea. Against everything else it is overkill , bikers should have melta because A we need anti av13 and we dont have a lot of places to pick it from . B you will sometimes pop transports and then charge what is inside and meltas pop stuff better . C over heating a biker even if he got cheaper is still bad.

[zyl-]

there is no kill like overkill

in this example, meltas are already on another fast unit

fast units are more likely to flank, therefore won't be facing frontal [13+] armor as often. bikers are faster than raptors due to boost.

plasma has better range, and even fast units aren't always within 6" of a target

6" melta to rhino = 1.2 pen,

>6" melta to rhino = .66 pen,

12" plasma to rhino = .88 pen

>12" plasma to rhino = .44 pen

therefore, plasma is better vs transports in all but 1 situation, which is extremely close range. I dare you to get on your high horse and tell me you always have your bikers under 6 inches from a target.

overheating anyone is bad, but since we don't have 3 ways to take preferred enemy, we deal with it.

[*Furyou Miko]

I manage to consistently get my meltaguns within 6" of the target using infantry, Zyl.

[DavidKits]

hmmm seems everyone likes the idea of plasma... i won't lie its nice but thats partly why my Raptors are there, they have had a good line so far deep striking behind enemy lines and plasma the crap out of someone. <.< the BT players Marshall will akin to that.

 

 as for having a chaos HQ run with the unit i don't really have one guy built for that. at the beginning of our campaign we all had to make 3 'heroes' for our armies. the primary hero is the base points +100 points of wargear, the other 2 heroes are the same but +50 instead of 100 and you get any of them completely free to your army list. you just have to spend the rest of your points on your army itself.

 

 now to answer Bounces question i only have enough points for either the 5 man of bikes and the 6 man of raptors, OR a 10 man unit of bikes. the melta deliviary idea with them was because i know the Black templar player plans to use a Land Raider in the near future and i want something just in case to run up the table and pop it or at the same time can do its own thing and kill stuff too! hmm i thought i put veterns on the unit i must have forgotten to mention it. i suppose if i removed my raptors altogether i could get the plasma guns on the bikers as well as have em as a 10 man unit just didn't know if that was a good idea. *shrugs*

 

before anyone asks my Sorcerer is the only 'quick' character in my army as when i made up the list i built him with +1 psi level, gift and a jumppack as i was just short in points to give him an invul but i wanted him with a jumppack just becase! thinking i should have built him with a bike but *shrugs* oh well ya live and learn while you play :) and i always enjoy building new models so i could remake him later.

 

in this army list I'm at right now for this campaign i got 1k points to spend so thats why i'm asking what do you guys think would be a good effective all comers bike unit that i can use to take on guard, black templar and dark angels decently. rough question i know but just curious.

 

 David.

[the jeske]

there is no kill like overkill

in this example, meltas are already on another fast unit

fast units are more likely to flank, therefore won't be facing frontal [13+] armor as often. bikers are faster than raptors due to boost.

plasma has better range, and even fast units aren't always within 6" of a target

6" melta to rhino = 1.2 pen,

>6" melta to rhino = .66 pen,

12" plasma to rhino = .88 pen

>12" plasma to rhino = .44 pen

therefore, plasma is better vs transports in all but 1 situation, which is extremely close range. I dare you to get on your high horse and tell me you always have your bikers under 6 inches from a target.

overheating anyone is bad, but since we don't have 3 ways to take preferred enemy, we deal with it.

chaos doesnt have problems with rhinos , it has problems with av13 car parks or ally Lemmans . the fact that sometimes your blowing up a chimera or Land raider or striping something of hull points is a bonus.  Ah and on preferred enemy first non of the options is viable. If your playing a lot of razorspams in 6th then good luck to you sir , am sure the plasma are doing great.

 

 

 

 as for having a chaos HQ run with the unit i don't really have one guy

built for that. at the beginning of our campaign we all had to make 3

'heroes' for our armies. the primary hero is the base points +100 points

of wargear, the other 2 heroes are the same but +50 instead of 100 and

you get any of them completely free to your army list. you just have to

spend the rest of your points on your army itself.

And could you list how your 3 HQs look like  ?

 

 

in this army list I'm at right now for this campaign i got 1k points to

spend so thats why i'm asking what do you guys think would be a good

effective all comers bike unit that i can use to take on guard, black

templar and dark angels decently. rough question i know but just curious

 

if you want to counter LR then plasma gives you nothing . against str 7 , av14 is immune to any form of damage ..

[DavidKits]

List up my characters quite easy Jeske

Pimary hero: Chaos Lord Dev'ross

Wargear: Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Combat Familiar, Vetern of the Long war, Gift of Mutation, Ichor blood, Sigils of Corruption

Secondary Hero: Dark Apostle Tornal

Wargear: Black Mace, Ichor blood (wanted to give him melta bombs but his not aloud and due to model restriction in my collection the black mace was the only thing worth while i could take with what i had!)

Terieriary(sp) Hero: Socrerer Lord Dorin

Wargear: Jump pack, +1 psi level, Gift of Mutation

so far for problems of things running into its Chimeras, Russ' Griffion mortars, Manicores... hell just about anything with the term tank in the imperial guard codex as he is the only one who is taking a decent level of em to give me a run for my money while i have to run across the dang table to engage and try to deal with em! >.< i just was hoping by adding a few bikers would give me some more speed where i need it and still have a decent unit. *shrugs*

David.

[the jeske]

List up my characters quite easy Jeske

Pimary hero: Chaos Lord Dev'ross

Wargear: Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Combat Familiar, Vetern of the Long war, Gift of Mutation, Ichor blood, Sigils of Corruption

Secondary Hero: Dark Apostle Tornal

Wargear: Black Mace, Ichor blood (wanted to give him melta bombs but his not aloud and due to model restriction in my collection the black mace was the only thing worth while i could take with what i had!)

Terieriary(sp) Hero: Socrerer Lord Dorin

Wargear: Jump pack, +1 psi level, Gift of Mutation

so far for problems of things running into its Chimeras, Russ' Griffion mortars, Manicores... hell just about anything with the term tank in the imperial guard codex as he is the only one who is taking a decent level of em to give me a run for my money while i have to run across the dang table to engage and try to deal with em! >.< i just was hoping by adding a few bikers would give me some more speed where i need it and still have a decent unit. *shrugs*

David.

ichor bad and costs points , which makes it worse. combat familiars are maybe ok for DPs and only if you have points left[should never happen.

run 2x3 bikers then melta , maybe combi melta on asp champs . keep them cheap . personaly I would rather run a lord with bike then with an inv within the point limitations your under. slow melee HQs , kind of a suck .

the problem with sorc is the same as any jump pack hq has. jump pack give HQs nothing , bikes give str8-9 ID immunity , help against str 3-5 attacks and in the case of undivided sorc there is a nice synergy between invisibility and bikers [well as long as there arent too many elder/sw ally runing around].

[DavidKits]

true very true Jeske just i wanted em this way because thats what i had *shrugs* the Ichor blood was mostly just a points top off anyway as i didn't have anything else i could think of to give the guys or just couldn't take... as shown with my comment on the apostle but alas that is another story all together, as said this forum post is about ideas on good units of bikes and what do you guys advise for an army. :) small units of bikes with all melta's eh *rubs my chin* sounds doable i believe i have the parts around my place :3