Horus Heresy: Betrayal; actually playing the game.

[sonofpollux]

Brothers,

I know that we've all love and admire HH:Betrayal, but have any of you actually played a game with it as a rulebook?

I'm the only in my area that I know of that has this book and has a serious interest in starting a army. So what would be the best way to create two Horus Heresy armies? Would it be easier to have two of the same armies to fight each other? Or is this game for more advanced players?

My thought was to build and paint two equal playing forces, most likely a Centurion and two Legion Tactical Squads, which is roughly about 500 points. Is that a viable option? Would it be the quintessential Legion "Black Reach" starter set?

[Jim AMM realgenius]

I think it is definitely an advanced version. The list doesn't really shine until you get to 2000 points and you get a bunch of the neat toys.

 

The good news is that you can pretty much recruit any other Marine player to make a list and mostly use normal marine models. Allow some liberal use of proxies and see if you can get someone interested in the book. I'm not sure 500 point lists would be too fun, we've mostly been playing 2000 around here and the smaller starter 1000 and 1500 games.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I agree, for me the HH is mass infantry forces, monster vehicles and major heroes.

Two twenty-man tactical squads with no bells and whistles take you to 500 points. Once you add some support weapons and a HQ you're soon at 1000 and that's without anything shiny!

You can do smaller with Pride of the Legion and using elites, but it's not necessarily cheaper in points

[TheForgottenAngel]

A few of us have played the rules and it is very dynamic and fun. The amount of variety you can do with the lists are awesome. You can play smaller point games but I wouldn't recommend it. 1750 would be the smallest size I'd play with the rules to get some of the feel. I haven't posted batreps due to term papers being written.

[Marshall Bretton]

i haven't played it myself, but from reading the rules in the book, it seems to me like it is designed more for apocalypse sized games

[Nehekhare]

I regularily play it with my Iron Warriors with the standart FOC. The rules are a bit overcosted/underpowered compared to regular 40k codices, but at least it's Legion rules (which Chaos doesn't have atm). Have a look at the HH army list forum if you need inspiration.  

[TheForgottenAngel]

Well you essentially pay an up front tax on every unit and it rewards you for maxing them out. In this way FW wants you to buy loads of models (worked on me, damn lol) but at the same time it wouldn't feel like a legion if the unit size was small.

 

But to answer your question on a good starting point for a HH army would be a Praetor/Consul and two 20man tactical squads. That is your absolute core and arguably able to be use in any HH list effectively. After you have that you can focus in either Contemptors, Terminators, Jetbikes etc. You can even add some special weapons to make those now 20 tactical squads into four 10man vet squads for a pride of the legion list.

[Vardus]

Well you essentially pay an up front tax on every unit and it rewards you for maxing them out. In this way FW wants you to buy loads of models (worked on me, damn lol) but at the same time it wouldn't feel like a legion if the unit size was small.

 

But to answer your question on a good starting point for a HH army would be a Praetor/Consul and two 20man tactical squads. That is your absolute core and arguably able to be use in any HH list effectively. After you have that you can focus in either Contemptors, Terminators, Jetbikes etc. You can even add some special weapons to make those now 20 tactical squads into four 10man vet squads for a pride of the legion list.

 

This. The book Betrayal itself suggests 2000pts as being the minimal ideal starting points and games under this should use the standard org. chart. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy are all about big actions, big tanks and big characters (read Primarchs), although game wise not necessarily Apoc. size at 3000pts+.

[TheForgottenAngel]

Exactly, that is why there is a limit on Lords of War in these lists. Think of HH as Apocalypse Lite, its the Miller or Coors of Apocalypse, not really a full bodied delicious German bier but still beer! I see the ideal points for HH being 3000pts-4000pts, that way you can have a primarch legally in your army (barring the ultra expensive LoW such as Thunderhawks) and still reasonably fit it all on a 4X6 or 4X8 board. At my FLGS we have one 4X8 built with plans for 3 more. I might be making a Dropsite Massacre Board if funds permit. It will have a few droppods and lots of rubble and debris.

[Blacksad]

full bodied delicious and german beer in the same sentence? HERETIC!

 

have to agree with the rest of the post though.

 

but really now, german beer? It's almost as weak and bland as brittish beer... :S

[Octavulg]

...Says the man from the country that gave us Stella Artois.

 

Which would totally be Guilliman's favorite beer.

 

Phew, topical.

[Hogun]

Forge World have said the HH game is mainly for games 2500 plus points.

[Marshall Bretton]

you guys need to try proper british ale, way better than that continental stuff

i think the main problem is finding people to play against tbh, once you have done that, just play whatever you want to

[Nexus25]

Arrogant Bastard ALE!!! Its for real men/Primarchs.

 

Alot of guys I play 40k with have the HH:Betrayal book. What we have done is actually allow certain rules, wargear, and vehicles to be used in regular games to really get the feel and because in our opinion some of the stuff would still be in use. But 2000 pts is really where the Betrayal book stuff needs to be used anything smaller and you just are kinda F'ing yourself in points.

[Nehekhare]

I disagree. HH has enough unit variation to create viable smaller forces, even kill teams. Only the Age of Darkness FOQ is made for battles of 2k+, but whether you use that is a matter of agreement.

 

The overcosting of certain units does only in part stem from bigger units being encouraged. The other part, as explicitly stated in the FAQ, is that certain USRs (like stubborn) are paid premium costs for in an evironment composed mostly of marines without ATSKNF.

[facmanpob]

A nice pint of Fuggle-De-Dum for me! :)

[Sister Kyrie]

You can also use the Betrayal armies against normal 40k armies, so you don't necessarily need an opponent who's also using the Legion rules.  The (so far) one game I've played w/the Legion rules was against normal 40k, and it worked just fine (aside from the fact that I had 20 minutes to put together a list when I hadn't really looked over the book, so as a result my list was crap :) )

[TheForgottenAngel]

Hahaha alright true the Belgium beers, especially the trappiste ones are amazing I'll give you that. Those things aside you get my point though. I do think that similarly sized 40k lists against 30K lists are balanced though.

[Vazzy]

Game against top tier lists at 1850 and below are brutal. Granted my opponent can be..."competitive"(You know who you are). I also had little time to make a list but I was blown away by warband/Coteaz Spam. Now in a legion v CSM as well as Legion v Legion its quite fun. FOTL is amazing against cultist zombie blobs.