Deathwatch and Dark Angels?

[WhoaDirty]

I'm not so up on my 40k lore, so I was wondering if the DA would ever work closely with the Deathwatch?  I would like to work some C:SM allies into my DA and the most fun idea I had was to use the Deathwatch paint scheme.  I play with a lot of guys who are really into the fluff, so I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way and I thought I would check before going ahead with the project.

[Avon Rekaes]

They certainly would!

While there is some tension between the Dark Angels and the Inquisition, they must still put on the face of a compliant chapter to avoid all-out condemnation. When the Deathwatch says that it's time for the Dark Angels to send a battle brother to fufill their oath, they do.

The interesting thing is that when the Dark Angel comes back to the Chapter, they are barred from ever entering the Inner Circle, completely unbeknownst to them. The highest they can hope to rise is as a Company Veteran Sergeant.

I'm currently doing the exact thing you suggest. The exact Codex:SM allied detachment I'm taking is a Librarian, Scout Squad, and Sternguard Veterans. The Librarian and Sternguard are going to be painted up as Deathwatch, the scouts will just be masquerading as DA scouts.

Here's my completed Dark Angels Librarian seconded to the Deathwatch.

[Bryan Blaire]

They do send members to the Deathwatch, but I don't think they would be "close" since the Dark Angels don't seem close to anyone but other Unforgiven. I could see them sending regular battle brothers that have no information on the Fallen regularly, as they have nothing to really disclose and can act as a smoke screen that everything is okay with the Chapter/the Unforgiven. Plus the battle brothers will be fairly tight lipped anyway. I can also see the Dark Angels sometimes sending a Deathwing or Inner Circle member simply to try and get information back out of a place they probably don't normally get access to (although I do wonder just how many Inquisition operatives the Dark Angels/Unforgiven may actually have).

 

Edit:

The interesting thing is that when the Dark Angel comes back to the Chapter, they are barred from ever entering the Inner Circle, completely unbeknownst to them. The highest they can hope to rise is as a Company Veteran Sergeant.

That's really interesting, Avon. Does that come from the Deathwatch RPG? I wouldn't think it would be that way, seems like they would want people in the know to advance. Is there a reason for that given (perhaps similar to the TechMarines, the Inner Circle is worried about dual loyalties)?

[pueriexdeus]

They do send members to the Deathwatch, but I don't think they would be "close" since the Dark Angels don't seem close to anyone but other Unforgiven. I could see them sending regular battle brothers that have no information on the Fallen regularly, as they have nothing to really disclose and can act as a smoke screen that everything is okay with the Chapter/the Unforgiven. Plus the battle brothers will be fairly tight lipped anyway. I can also see the Dark Angels sometimes sending a Deathwing or Inner Circle member simply to try and get information back out of a place they probably don't normally get access to (although I do wonder just how many Inquisition operatives the Dark Angels/Unforgiven may actually have).

 

Of course we do. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/139910-legio-and-dark-angels/?p=3291663

[Avon Rekaes]

 

The interesting thing is that when the Dark Angel comes back to the Chapter, they are barred from ever entering the Inner Circle, completely unbeknownst to them. The highest they can hope to rise is as a Company Veteran Sergeant.

That's really interesting, Avon. Does that come from the Deathwatch RPG? I wouldn't think it would be that way, seems like they would want people in the know to advance. Is there a reason for that given (perhaps similar to the TechMarines, the Inner Circle is worried about dual loyalties)?

 

That's pretty much it exactly. I read it in the Deathwatch RPG. They send brothers to the Deathwatch and are then always wary of their dual loyalties, because Deathwatch marines are apparently forbidden to share their experiences of their time serving with the Deathwatch. 

 

...At least I'm pretty sure that's it. I don't know the RPG, read it in a friend's book, and now I can't find anything to back me up on Lexicanum or anything...

 

EDIT:

 

Here, found a little blurb on Fantasy Flight's website about Dark Angels and the Deathwatch:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1252

[marvmoogy]

I remember reading somewhere that the Dark Angels & Unforgiven actually embrace sending a marine or two to the Deathwatch.

 

The reason was simply because it gives the Dark Angels another source of info into the rumour mill that is "where are the fallen"? I also remember reading that a DA DW Marine will report on his experiences to more senior members of the chapter.

 

Last thing is that I think I read that any DA sent must be a member of the Deathwing or Ravenwing.....

 

Hope that helps

[march10k]

i have a deathwatch veteran in my army. he's got a flamer and a chainsword. cool mini, there's no reason for a deathwatch veteran to be anything more exalted than a generic squad member!

[Master Avoghai]

What about a Deathwatch squad composed exclusively of DA and successors?

[facmanpob]

I have a 1st Company Sergeant who served with the Deathwatch (hence the Inquisition shoulder pad on his right shoulder). Of course, the Guardians of the Covenant are scholars and information gatherers of the highest order, so he immediately turned all knowledge he gained about the Inquisition over to the Chapter Librarians for analysis!

http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii324/facmanpob/Miniatures/Space%20Marines/1st%20Company/IMG_0753.jpg

[bluepillredpill]

I’m actually taking part in some deathwatch presently as a Dark Angel Librarian, not fully up to speed of the content of the core book, but will have a scan to see what it says re: Dark Angels and returning to the chapter.

[EPK]

What about a Deathwatch squad composed exclusively of DA and successors?

I recall someone painting something of that nature. The idea behind it was that they were a sort of Unforgiven Deathwatch (totally removed from the actual Deathwatch).

[elphilo]

I just checked my Deathwatch Core Book and the couple pages it has on the fluff of the Dark Angels doesn't say anything about them returning to the chapter and not being able to advanced to the Inner Circle. Now that information could be in the plethora of other books it has, or hell even in another part of the book, I just took a quick look

[EPK]

I just checked my Deathwatch Core Book and the couple pages it has on the fluff of the Dark Angels doesn't say anything about them returning to the chapter and not being able to advanced to the Inner Circle. Now that information could be in the plethora of other books it has, or hell even in another part of the book, I just took a quick look

Well there is the problem that Librarians are already part of the Inner Circle to some degree.

[Avon Rekaes]

I was thinking about that, and I think that doesn't necessarily follow. Why would psychic talent automatically put you in a position of supreme trust and confience within the Inner Circle? It's most likely that the lowest rank of Librarians, the Lexicanums are not In-The-Know. (This rank is not fieldable from the codex, the Mastery Level 1 Librarian represents the next higher rank of Codicer, and Mastery Level 2 Libarians being Epistolaries, so you can't claim Lexicanums have the Inner Circle rule in the codex.)

 

And according to the Deathwatch RPG, most Librarians sent on their vigil with the Deathwatch are of the Lexicanum rank, since Codicers and higher are too involved in the running and organization of the Chapter. This is apparently true of any Space Marine chapter. It's just an added bonus that Dark Angels Lexicanums aren't/may not be of the Inner Circle.

 

Funnily enough, it's possible for a Lexicanum to become skilled enough to rise to the rank of Codiers or Epistolary while on their vigil, and then get sent back to the Dark Angels. Who then can't very well strip their returned brother of rank and privleage. But then can't also be in the Inner Circle (assuming I'm remembering that right. I looked into all this when I was doing my Deathwatch Librarian paint job a while ago.) So then you can have Codicers and Epistolaries who aren't Fearless and have Prefered Enemy (chaos space marines). I represent this by taking my Deathwatch DA Librarian as a codex-marine Librarian in an allied detachment. And since he came into his powers while on vigil, he has access to the codex psychic powers.

 

Here's the article I found on Deathwatch and Librarians:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathwatch_Epistolary

[Cactus]

I just checked my Deathwatch Core Book and the couple pages it has on the fluff of the Dark Angels doesn't say anything about them returning to the chapter and not being able to advanced to the Inner Circle. Now that information could be in the plethora of other books it has, or hell even in another part of the book, I just took a quick look

You won't find that in any of FFG's Deathwatch books as it would contradict the Ravenwing and Deathwing options they gave us in First Founding.

[AngelVeto]

Damn, beaten to it! The Dark Angels and other unforgiven actually use the brothers seconded to the deathwatch to spread the hunt for the fallen. And investigate those black shields, as they are obviously hiding something...

 

I'm actually running a group of us from my FLGS in a second iteration of deathwatch, and I will be running a DA dev this time, hoping to become deathwing in the deathwatch.

[Avon Rekaes]

Welp, proven wrong. Dunno what I was thinking. Perhaps I was just conflating Deathwatch service with Techmarine's dual loyalties to the Adeptus Mechanicus.

 

However... This is a quote from the Lexicanum entry on Deathwatch:

Each Space Marine may serve a discrete amount of time, or for the duration of a mission, which may be a number of years. Once the mission is complete, the Space Marine is allowed to return to his chapter, under an oath of silence, as their duty has been fulfilled.

Emphasis mine.

 

So unless this was retconned, Dark Angels who return to their chapter are actually forbidden to speak of any events that happened on their vigil.

 

Perhaps both interpretations can be reconciled. If a lower-ranking Brother returns and honorably maintains his Oath to the Ordo Maelleus, he is secretly bocked from entering the Inner Circle but is otherwise afforded full honors and service (rising as high as Company Veteran Sergeant). But of the Oath of Silence is broken in further service to the Unforgiven, then there is no question as to where the loyalties of the returning brother lie.

[MontyBob]

 

 

I remember reading somewhere that the Dark Angels & Unforgiven actually embrace sending a marine or two to the Deathwatch.

 

The reason was simply because it gives the Dark Angels another source of info into the rumour mill that is "where are the fallen"? I also remember reading that a DA DW Marine will report on his experiences to more senior members of the chapter

 

 

 

+1 This

 

My DA librarian stumbled across a Fallen (mainly as the GM wanted me to run off on one so the ASM had to actually work as a group rather than jumping on things solo).  Hurrah for forbidden knowledge - chapter runes.

 

And all the while I was sending coded messages into the warp.

[Komodo]

You should probably find and read a great books FFG produces. Deathwatch and it's supplements. Not only DA's are in deathwatch, they do not forget about their duty to hunt the fallen and can be reassigned by unforgiven authorities to hunt one and even abandon their current mission for the sake of DA's one. Even more... Fallen can be a deathwatch battle-brother, so called "black shields", when an unknown marine approaches Jericho Reach and blackening out all his chapter markings. Not only these books are the great source of deathwatch fluff, they make a really fun and great RPG. Last time I was playing as devastator-ravenwing biker.

And even more on blackshields, one was once a Deathwatch grandmaster. And he was "lost in action", even his squad, fully combined from DA marines, experts of hunt... erm search, couldn't find his traces... :)

[EPK]

 

Welp, proven wrong. Dunno what I was thinking. Perhaps I was just conflating Deathwatch service with Techmarine's dual loyalties to the Adeptus Mechanicus.

 

However... This is a quote from the Lexicanum entry on Deathwatch:

Each Space Marine may serve a discrete amount of time, or for the duration of a mission, which may be a number of years. Once the mission is complete, the Space Marine is allowed to return to his chapter, under an oath of silence, as their duty has been fulfilled.

Emphasis mine.

 

So unless this was retconned, Dark Angels who return to their chapter are actually forbidden to speak of any events that happened on their vigil.

 

Perhaps both interpretations can be reconciled. If a lower-ranking Brother returns and honorably maintains his Oath to the Ordo Maelleus, he is secretly bocked from entering the Inner Circle but is otherwise afforded full honors and service (rising as high as Company Veteran Sergeant). But of the Oath of Silence is broken in further service to the Unforgiven, then there is no question as to where the loyalties of the returning brother lie.

 

Would the DA higher ups really give such a choice whether unbeknownst of the marine or not? With the opportunity to gain any helpful intel, surely senior Librarians would be scouring said marine's mind for clues - probably even if they were forthcoming to begin with... just to be sure. And by going through such mind reading, this marine technically could keep his oath and is none the wiser once the knowledge of the reading it totally scrubbed away. hehe.

[Avon Rekaes]

Ehn. I honestly don't see the Dark Angels doing that to one of their own. They tortu- erm, interrogate Fallen, sure. But I don't see them doing it to their own Battle Brothers who show every ounce of loyalty to the Lion and the Emperor. Tests of loyalty that determine whether the Battle Brother is ready to step into the next highest Circle might be dangerous, but undergoing them is an honor, not a punishment.

[Brother Immolator]

Isn't there a trait for the dark angels and their successor chapters in the deathwatch RPG that allows them to be in the know in regards to the fallen? Essentially making them double agents for the inner circle. Or am I that far wrong?

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Isn't there a trait for the dark angels and their successor chapters in the deathwatch RPG that allows them to be in the know in regards to the fallen? Essentially making them double agents for the inner circle. Or am I that far wrong?

There's a Chapter Deed - Initiate of Secrets. There is also a Deathwing Mark of Distinction, with even more goodies involved. One can even play Deathwing Terminator/Ravenwing characters as advanced specialties, although these are subject to GM permission.

 

Also, the Deathwatch is a voluntary effort by the Marine Chapters, not an obligation. A Chapter can and will stop sending personnel if all it gets for its troubles is grief and unreturned corpses.

[Avon Rekaes]

Really now? That sounds like an out-and-out retcon. Chapters have taken an Oath to fufill the call of the Deathwatch.

 

Then again my fluff credibility is shot, so.. grain of salt, etc.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

The Deathwatch RPG made several adjustments to the role of marines' interactions with the inquisition, along with making the Jericho Reach the main focus of their activities. Mind you, the withdrawal of support at the Chapter Master's discretion is the "theory" of the matter. In practice, a Chapter saying "oh, we don't like you, no more grunts!" is going to elicit a fair share of suspicion, along with the repute losses involved with disassociating with such a prestigious organization. It's not a decision taken lightly.

 

Can't have the Marines looking like jobbers in their own game, though. ;)