Horus Heresy Tactica: Legion Contemptor Dreadnought

[PensacolaWarhammer]

I'm back with my continuing column on the Forgeworld Horus Heresy book. I've posted the tactica on Pensacola Warhammer.
In short, the Contemptor is a powerful dreadnought. It has stats the same as a venerable dreadnought but has 13 front armor and has the Fleet special rules. Build wise, you'll see builds similar to standard dreadnoughts such as the Dakka dreadnought, but with more options. I see basically three builds, which I go over in my blog post.

An assault build that has two dreadnought close combat weapons
An close support for troops which would have a close combat weapon and heavy weapon of choice
A variant of the Dakka dreadnought that has dual heavy weapons of choice.

I'd like to know what you think.

[Nova_Dew]

The way Gets hot works you have a 1 in 6 chance of a gets hot then a 50/50 chance of a glancing hit and with 3 HP, plasma cannons make a great general purpose weapon. as for the heavy conversion beamer either use it to cover other dreads or squads while they move forwards or keep it back and use it as a 75" range S10 AP1 5" blast tank hunter.

mount the beamer and another ranged weapon and you can take on infantry and tanks mostly way out side the ranges they can fire back

[Onisuzume]

I'm kinda sad there's no Mortis-Pattern...

Maybe when the 1st Legion gets a write-up...

[Demus Ragnok]

I'm kinda sad there's no Mortis-Pattern...

Maybe when the 1st Legion gets a write-up...

I thought a Mortis-Pattern was a dread with dual twin linked autocannons.

And if so the Contemptor has that option.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Good work there, I also enjoyed the other Tactica.

 

Many thanks

[Onisuzume]

 

I'm kinda sad there's no Mortis-Pattern...

Maybe when the 1st Legion gets a write-up...

I thought a Mortis-Pattern was a dread with dual twin linked autocannons.

And if so the Contemptor has that option.

And skyfire&interceptor when stationary.

And any paired ranged weapons, actually.

[PensacolaWarhammer]

@Onisuzume

Even when the Dark Angels legion comes out, I doubt you'll see the Mortis Dreadnought. It seems the Horus Heresy legion rules gives each legion their primarch, a couple special characters, special wargear, and special infantry unit (i.e. Death Shroud terminators, World Eaters Rampager squad, etc.)

 

@Nova _Dew

I agree that the Plasma Cannon is good multi-purpose weapon expeically since it's only 10 points and the way Gets Hot works now.

 

Thanks everyone for checking it out. I'll put these out once a week, maybe twice, show check for more.

[Vardus]

 

 

I'm kinda sad there's no Mortis-Pattern...

Maybe when the 1st Legion gets a write-up...

I thought a Mortis-Pattern was a dread with dual twin linked autocannons.

And if so the Contemptor has that option.

And skyfire&interceptor when stationary.

And any paired ranged weapons, actually.

 

Pages 174 and 177, The Horus Heresy: Book One: Betrayal, show a Sons of Horus Contemptor with twin Kheres pattern assault cannons and a Emperor's Children Contemptor with twin Autocannons. Both are described as "Mortis" weapon configuration. The Lexicanium descibes them as dreadnoughts with dual missile launchers, twin-linked heavy bolters, twin-linked autocannons or twin-linked las cannons.

[Onisuzume]

 

 

 

I'm kinda sad there's no Mortis-Pattern...

Maybe when the 1st Legion gets a write-up...

I thought a Mortis-Pattern was a dread with dual twin linked autocannons.

And if so the Contemptor has that option.

And skyfire&interceptor when stationary.

And any paired ranged weapons, actually.

 

Pages 174 and 177, The Horus Heresy: Book One: Betrayal, show a Sons of Horus Contemptor with twin Kheres pattern assault cannons and a Emperor's Children Contemptor with twin Autocannons. Both are described as "Mortis" weapon configuration. The Lexicanium descibes them as dreadnoughts with dual missile launchers, twin-linked heavy bolters, twin-linked autocannons or twin-linked las cannons.

 

Imperial Armour: Apocalypse (2nd edition) has the Contemptor-Mortis with Multi-Meltas, TLACs, Plasma Cannons, Kheres and TLLC. As well as skyfire&interceptor when stationary.

The typical Mk IV/V Mortis only has the four you mentioned.

Don't question a Dark Angel about his legion's relics. :p

Anyhow, the thing of importance was the skyfire/interceptor when stationary, which the legion contemptor doesn't get.

[Vardus]

I'm kinda sad there's no Mortis-Pattern...

Maybe when the 1st Legion gets a write-up...

I thought a Mortis-Pattern was a dread with dual twin linked autocannons.

And if so the Contemptor has that option.

And skyfire&interceptor when stationary.

And any paired ranged weapons, actually.

Pages 174 and 177, The Horus Heresy: Book One: Betrayal, show a Sons of Horus Contemptor with twin Kheres pattern assault cannons and a Emperor's Children Contemptor with twin Autocannons. Both are described as "Mortis" weapon configuration. The Lexicanium descibes them as dreadnoughts with dual missile launchers, twin-linked heavy bolters, twin-linked autocannons or twin-linked las cannons.

Imperial Armour: Apocalypse (2nd edition) has the Contemptor-Mortis with Multi-Meltas, TLACs, Plasma Cannons, Kheres and TLLC. As well as skyfire&interceptor when stationary.

The typical Mk IV/V Mortis only has the four you mentioned.

Don't question a Dark Angel about his legion's relics.

Anyhow, the thing of importance was the skyfire/interceptor when stationary, which the legion contemptor doesn't get.

Ahh, well, my take is that the Mortis you are describing is 10,000 years after the legion Mortis and the Techmarines have been able to add a few upgrades.

Anyway, give me a couple of dreadnought cc weapons for ripping things to shreds! None of this Dark Angel stand back and shoot shenanigans!

[depthcharge12]

Just dont give the DAs dread a CCW and a long range weapon because then he wont be able to make up his mind on which role to play in the heresy ;)

 

lol made a DA joke kinda

[Cmdr Shepard]

I'm glad to read your new Tactica and I can add my own thoughts on the Contemptor. ;)

 

As general analysis I can tell you from my own experience the Contemptor is not as invulnerable as it may seem.

This is expecially true for the CC version who is etremely vulnerable to melta bombs and only have a 6++ invul against them. Even if you play your Legion Contemptor against "standard" 40K armies, where melta bombs are a rare commodity compared to HH he will be a great danger. Consider a single 10 men tactical squad with melta bombs on the sergeant will have a 50% chance to hit and when he does the chances to deal a significat damage to the walker are quite high. It's unlikely the Contemptor will able to kill the sergeant before he ca strike because he cannot challange him.

 

Other threats come from massed ML shots (namely heavy support squads, devastators and Long Fangs equivalent). ML will pen them on 6+ and when you bring 12 shots (provided we are talking about 3 devastor squads) the chances are not very low.

However such threats can be countered somehow and the 5++ invul will help. The real problem is melta guns. There is no way to make them immune to them and if you play a CC Contemptor or the amazing dual Kheres one, with a 24" range, you will come within melta range, especially multi meltas one.

Kheres Pattern assault cannon : A six shot assault cannon. Great fun will be had chewing up troops with this gun.

I strongly agree. The Kheres, and obviously the dual Kheres, pattern is mainly an ant-infantry platform. Even though he fires 12 (the dual Kherese pattern) S6 rending shots I had difficulties in destroying vehicles; it may have been bad luck though ;)

However it devasted infantry and it was very deadly against TDAs. My dual Kheres contemptor killed more terminators than most of any other unit I ever played.

To sum things up quickly, the Contemptor dreadnought is awesome. Maybe even overpowered, but hey, that’s all right. In my personal opinion, this is what a regular dreadnought should be. It’s WS and BS 5, strength 7, two attacks, armor 13, 4++ invulnerable save, and fleet.

The contemptor has a 5++ invul against shooting attacks and explosions and a 6++ against melee attacks. If he had a 4++ he would have nearly unstoppable as you mentioned. Sadly it is not case and its survivability is not as impressive.

 

In the end I believe the most survivable version are the ranged ones. The dual ranged weapons patterns will excell in their role, even though few of them like the dual Las Cannons are quite expensive. The only ranged weapon I see no reason is using is the heavy conversion beamer. As you noticed the walker cannot move and shoot.

 

The CC or the "close support" patterns are more vulnerable since there is no way to make them the nearly unstoppable force a Land Raider Spartan, for example, can become.

 

So I ask my own questions to the community:

What do you think about the CC Contemptors? Did you experienced the "limitations" I'm worrying about?

After all they can bring no more than 4 attacks in charge and unless you fights others walkers or vehicles you should have problems in dealing with units. For example a 10 men unit will problably hold him 2 or even 3 turns, unless you manage to sweep them.

Then there is the melta bombs issue. Sure AV13 means he is immune to most grenaded but not melta bombs who would wreck him with ease.

 

So what do you think about it?

I'm a huge fan of Contemptors and I always wanted to field an army full of Contemptors but I'm wondering if I should go for the ranged versions only.

[PensacolaWarhammer]

@Cmdr Shepard

Your argument about the survivablity of the Comtemptor is not that strong as that can be leveled at every vehicle. Of course a squad of 10 marines with a melta bomb is dangerous, but they are dangerous to every vehicle. Yes, melta guns and missile launchers are a threat, but again, they are a threat to every vehicle. The way you elevate the threat is giving your opponent multi target priorities. Having a terminator squad, a heavy tank, and a few Contemptors will force your opponent to think carefully. Finally, the close support Contemptor should not be working alone. The squad that he is walking with or near should be out helping him. In short, there is nothing that is completely unstoppable, but you'll find enough arguments and combos that will take apart anything. It's how your unit works in chorus with the rest of your army, and what your tactics are.

 

Sorry about the invul mistake. My notes said a 4++. Obviously, those notes are wrong. I need to check the dreadnought close combat rules, but I don't think dreadnoughts go at Intitiative 1 in close combat.

[depthcharge12]

Remember that this book values men over toys just like the USMC. Tanks and dreads are there to support the footsloggers...not the other way around.

 

I field a screen of termies in front of my kheresnaught so that it gives the impression that it is the real threat but it is really only there to discourage tarpit squads from my scoring termie kill squad of joy. The termies also act as an interceptor for meltabomb toting squads.

 

I agree with penascola warhammer to overload your threats with stuff too and my WE list reflects that. A juiced up Spartan, kheresnaught, and an executioner predator (and the catis if you want to count their heavy armor) provide too many threats against a heresy list seeing as how really only people take one HW squad and/or battery of rapiers (but elite slots are at a premium so not likely) that can only deal with one at a time. Now if you are facing venom spam then your armor is for naught and you must rely on 5++ or flare shield to save your hide.

 

My vote goes towards saying that the kheresnaught is the premier choice for most lists as it can deal with most threats and is quite mobile.

 

I would venture that a plasma cannon contemptor would be great in HH lists against other marines because of the obvious power of the weapon and can make 20 man blobs cry uncle and can snipe important characters out of them like apothecaries or MoS due to the new precision weapon rules and templates. Also plas has 36 range as opposed to 24 - keeping out of MM range. Besides...BS 5 on a 2D6 scatter is practically 1d6 scatter anywho ;)

 

ha...now that ive thought of that i might just go switch to twin plas cannons now....

[Cmdr Shepard]

@Cmdr Shepard

Your argument about the survivablity of the Comtemptor is not that strong as that can be leveled at every vehicle. Of course a squad of 10 marines with a melta bomb is dangerous, but they are dangerous to every vehicle. Yes, melta guns and missile launchers are a threat, but again, they are a threat to every vehicle. The way you elevate the threat is giving your opponent multi target priorities. Having a terminator squad, a heavy tank, and a few Contemptors will force your opponent to think carefully. Finally, the close support Contemptor should not be working alone. The squad that he is walking with or near should be out helping him. In short, there is nothing that is completely unstoppable, but you'll find enough arguments and combos that will take apart anything. It's how your unit works in chorus with the rest of your army, and what your tactics are.

Sorry about the invul mistake. My notes said a 4++. Obviously, those notes are wrong. I need to check the dreadnought close combat rules, but I don't think dreadnoughts go at Intitiative 1 in close combat.

Sorry brother but my argument is not less strong than yours when you say Contemptor plus Extra Armour is nearly unstoppable (you said it in the Tactica).

The problem is that vehicles don't have to be close to enemy as the CC Contemptor has to be. Beside every other vehicle in Legiones Astartes armies that has to close the distance with enemy has both the option to take armoured ceramite (immune to melta) and will likely transport a death star unit (I'm thinking about Land Raiders/ Land Raider Spartans) so the melta bombs unit won't be able to charge the vehicle before charging, or being charge by, the death star.

The cost of the contemptor won't always allow you to "elevate the threat" since you will rarely have the room for spamming other dangerour vehicles; uless you go with Contemptor spam as I wanted to try.

I suppose I didn't make my point clear and that cause the misunderstading: I wasn't saying the Contemptor is bad but that he comes with huge limitations. If he didn't cost as much they wouldn't be limitation but a dual Las Cannons costs 25 points less than a Land Raider Phobos who fires the same amount of shots, can move 12" and fire one weapon at full BS and snapshot the other, can move 12" and snapshots both las cannon against Flyers.

If you don't need to use it as assault vehicle go for a Proteus and save some point.

Once more I'm not against Contemptor but your tactica seemed to suggest he is nearly unstoppable. Sadly it's not alway true and that role belongs to the Spartan with armoured ceramite and Flare shield. With a 4++ invul I would have agreed with you.

I didn't want to appear rude, brother. I really appreciate yout Tacitcas and I wanted to help.

Personally I think Dual Kherese, Dual Twin-Linked Autocannons and Dual Plasma Cannons are very good options. As depthcharge12 said, HH armies value "men over toys". The contemptor is nice in the support role but I still believe putting a nearly 200 pts in the condition where a 15 points model can easily destroy is not the perfect role for the unit.

That's sad because in fluff Dreads and Contemptor dreads are neraly "one man armies".

I agree with penascola warhammer to overload your threats with stuff too and my WE list reflects that. A juiced up Spartan, kheresnaught, and an executioner predator (and the catis if you want to count their heavy armor) provide too many threats against a heresy list seeing as how really only people take one HW squad and/or battery of rapiers (but elite slots are at a premium so not likely) that can only deal with one at a time. Now if you are facing venom spam then your armor is for naught and you must rely on 5++ or flare shield to save your hide.

But I never said the contrary, Brother. I was just talking about the vulnerability of CC Contemptors. Supporting Contemptors are nice. My Dual Kheres earned the title of "Terminators slayer" ;)

The only ranged version I don't like is the heavy conversion beamer. The dual Las Cannons is nice but cost nearly as a Land Raider.

If we are talking about a Spartan, a dual Kheres etc you mention, it's another story. There is always a way to make sure an unit become very effective in a given list.

Mine was just an analysis on CC contemptor but it seems I was not clear enough and everyone thought I was a Contemptor hater

[PensacolaWarhammer]

@Cmdr Shepard

Again, the draw back of non-verbal discussion hits. I see you point about the weakness of a CC Contemptor. I did not take your post as rude just as I hope you didn't take mine. I used a poor set of adjectives. The CC Contemptor is a build that is viable in certain situations, and it's a build that players will probably see and face. Plus, there's something a bit cool about a tower metal monster running across a battlefield with murder in his eyes. Finally, I have no doubt that you would see a CC Contemptor in World Eaters army and Sons of Hours army.

For my money I'm probably on the same page as everyone else. I'm going with the dual Kheres. I have half a mind of modleing big fist flipping the bird on the end of Kheres.

[Noserenda]

Ive used a Dual CC weapon/Grav Guns Contemptor a lot with great success, specifically in the Betrayal list hes only gone down once and that was against Angron (Which is fair enough...). It bears mention I rarely ever field less than 3 Predators though, which certainly helps divide the Threats a bit until he gets too close, and he tends to go Land Raider hunting with his guns (Which are highly useful for AV 14).

 

All that said we are tending to field less Melta these days in our lists with a lot of ceramite around.

[Zeratul29]

So far, I have decided to go with a dual kheres dreadnought and a dual fist with plasma blasters, to each work with a tactial squad moving up the field. After reading this, i have started to think about a dual plasma dread as plasma seems hard to come by in HH :/

[Jim AMM realgenius]

The only ranged version I don't like is the heavy conversion beamer.

Why not the HCB? Because you have to stay still when shooting?

 

I bought a HCB arm after a conversion beamer killed off my Kheresnaught in a game, although I have yet to try it. Seems like it could have its place.

[Cmdr Shepard]

@Cmdr Shepard

Again, the draw back of non-verbal discussion hits. I see you point about the weakness of a CC Contemptor. I did not take your post as rude just as I hope you didn't take mine.

 

Good to read it ;). I didn't want to appear rude and I'm glad I didn't look so. Don't worry I never considered your post rude.

 

 

  The CC Contemptor is a build that is viable in certain situations, and it's a build that players will probably see and face. Plus, there's something a bit cool about a tower metal monster running across a battlefield with murder in his eyes. Finally, I have no doubt that you would see a CC Contemptor in World Eaters army and Sons of Hours army.

 

I was just saying the CC contemptor comes with several limitations like vulnerability to melta bombs and the fact he cannot kill more than 4 models per assault phase. If you succeed to sweep the enemy it's not a huge problem, though ;)

About coolness: I strongly agree CC Contemptor is cool, no doubt ;)

 

 

So far, I have decided to go with a dual kheres dreadnought and a dual fist with plasma blasters, to each work with a tactial squad moving up the field. After reading this, i have started to think about a dual plasma dread as plasma seems hard to come by in HH :/

 

The only other way to field plasma cannons is with the Heavy Support squads, if I'm not mistaken. Dual Kheres is a classic than will rarely let you down.

 

 

 

The only ranged version I don't like is the heavy conversion beamer.

Why not the HCB? Because you have to stay still when shooting?

 

I bought a HCB arm after a conversion beamer killed off my Kheresnaught in a game, although I have yet to try it. Seems like it could have its place.

 

Don't misunderstand me the HCB is not terrible but the fact you cannot move and shoot limits his ability to acquire targets and unless your opponent has units that stay still in their deployment zone (there several of such units) every turn you move it's a turn your target can close the distance and reduce the weapon S.

If you face armies with units "camping" in their deployment zone than the HCB has its place but if you face a mobile army you will lose several turns of shooting. That's why I said I prefer not to field it because it's the less versatile option and it's also quite expensive (more than a lascannon).

If you know you will face "static" armies than you could make good use it.

If it only had the barrage rule we could have used those Nuncio Vox ;)

 

Ive used a Dual CC weapon/Grav Guns Contemptor a lot with great success, specifically in the Betrayal list hes only gone down once and that was against Angron (Which is fair enough...). It bears mention I rarely ever field less than 3 Predators though, which certainly helps divide the Threats a bit until he gets too close, and he tends to go Land Raider hunting with his guns (Which are highly useful for AV 14).

 

All that said we are tending to field less Melta these days in our lists with a lot of ceramite around.

 

Well Angron is a beast when it comes to destroy vehicles. With 3 preadators your CC Contemptor may be a good distraction or he the Pradators may keep the heavy weapons away from the Contemptor. As I said in the right context most of HH units have a role and that's what make the army list so fun to play ;)

My only problem is that every time I think about the Contemptors I always need those points for something else.

[Nova_Dew]

The HCB is used as a weapon of opportunity against Tanks and Super heavies and your main weapon against fortifications... you know the ones that are now optional.... IMHO they should be fielded with a second ranged weapon or with the havok launcher if you go with a DCCW .

HH armies are all about the right weapon for the right use and building an army against what you think you are facing if playing with knowledge of your appointments army or with Intel (if you want a fluffy way to excuse looking at their army list) you can custom make your army..... just like in the HH fiction

[PensacolaWarhammer]

As Cmdr Shepard said, the biggist limitation with the Heavy Conversion Beamer is that you can't really move and shoot. Even if you knew ahead of time what type of army you where going against, the fact that you can't move and shoot is a drawback. There will come a time when you will have to move him. Giving the Contemptor a second ranged weapon with the Heavy Conversion Beamer does reduce the draw back some, but I think it would actually be more effective just to take two of whatever ranged weapon you would take with the Heavy Conversion beamer.

[Jim AMM realgenius]

I really wish they'd just made the Conversion Beamer an option.  I'd gladly trade the large blast for small if I could move and shoot.

 

I have built a list with a HCB Contemptor paired with a Medusa.  That will provide S10 for things that stray too close.