Land Speeder Tornados (am I reading it right?)

[Cpt_Reaper]

The way it is written in the codex is as follows:

• replace heavy bolter with heavy flamer or multi melta
• Any Land Speeder may be upgraded to one of the following

1. Land Speeder typhoon w/ Typhoon Missile Launcher
2. Land Speeder Tornado with nose mounted <insert weapon here>

Now it may have been my fear that something in my force got a sneaky nerf but I read this as Tornado and Typhoon Speeders are stuck with a heavy bolter. I know this most likely isn't the case but hey...how hard is it to add "any speeder may add...to it's existing weaponry"?

[Brother Immolator]

Praphrazing  from Codex:

Squadron may include up to four speeders.

May replace the HB  with HF for xxxx points or  MM for xxxx points.

Any Land speeder may be upgraded to the following:

Thyphoon pattern with Missiles xxx points

Tornado pattern with one of the following: HB HF MM ASCannon each for xxx points.

 

EDIT: 11th Company Dark Master,

 

For the record, Unless I am missing something there is no mention of nose mounted weapons.

                

                

                    

[Cpt_Reaper]

My bad. When I say nose mounted weapon I mean the set-up of the Tornado. Chin-mounted...nose mounted...the Tornado adds another gun. The thing I was stuck on (and now seems silly that I thought so) was that I somehow got the impression the passenger/gunner of a Tornado or Typhoon was stuck with a heavy bolter.

[Brother Immolator]

Not to worry, I just referred to it just to make sure :D

[Alvena]

in the the french codex it is pretty explicit:

 

Options: 

- add up to 4 LS

- replace HB for HF / MM

- any LS may take one of the following : HB,HF,MM,AC,TML

 

There is no status of being tornado or any kind of special LS.

you are just a member of the RW support squad and you only choose your wargear. 

[facmanpob]

@Alvena, this is exactly the same in the English digital codex.

The entry is really, really clear and I can't fathom why people are having a problem with it, and I wish people would stop adding spurious words into the codex entry (such as 'Tornado pattern' and 'nose-mounted'). They only serve to confuse. Read the codex entry people!

[Brother Immolator]

@Alvena, this is exactly the same in the English digital codex.

The entry is really, really clear and I can't fathom why people are having a problem with it, and I wish people would stop adding spurious words into the codex entry (such as 'Tornado pattern' and 'nose-mounted'). They only serve to confuse. Read the codex entry people!

Apparently I have read the codex entry and it reads both tornado and typhoon, brother. As I quoted on the previous page.

So...Why dont you reread it

But I agree it is quite clear on purpose.

[Rizara]

Tis true says a speeder can be upgraded to a typhoon pattern which simply adds missile launchers or a tornado pattern which adds the under carriage mounted weapon. If you don't take these options you have a simple land speeder with either a heavy bolter, heavy flamed or multimelta. The tornado option for the under carriage mounted weapon is the same three weapons and the additional assault cannon. So you can have pair up multimelta's, heavy bolters or heavy flames but the assault cannon and missile pods are only paired with the gunners upgrade only which is from a basic speeder option.

 

Tornados and typhoons are still recognized patterns by the ravenwing, we just have more versatile options compared to other chapters, and can include one lone speeder to a bike squad that is six strong.

[facmanpob]

@Alvena, this is exactly the same in the English digital codex.

The entry is really, really clear and I can't fathom why people are having a problem with it, and I wish people would stop adding spurious words into the codex entry (such as 'Tornado pattern' and 'nose-mounted'). They only serve to confuse. Read the codex entry people!

Apparently I have read the codex entry and it reads both tornado and typhoon, brother. As I quoted on the previous page.

So...Why dont you reread it

But I agree it is quite clear on purpose.

I'll go one better and post an image from the codex (with the costs blacked out to stave off trouble!). Please point out to me where the word Tornado is printed, or where it says you can upgrade to a Typhoon pattern speeder..... (obviously one of the weapon options is to take a Typhoon missile launcher, but this is different to what people have been writing in this thread.

http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii324/facmanpob/photo_zpse0d83b4e.jpg

[Bryan Blaire]

That's a different entry from the hard copy English codex though.

 

The hard copy entry reads:

Options:

-Squadrons may include up to four

additional Land Speeders.......................X pts/model

-May replace its heavy bolter with:

*Heavy flamer................................X pts (if any)

*Multi-Melta....................................X pts/model

-Any Land Speeder may be upgraded to

one of the following:

*Typhoon pattern with

Typhoon missile launcher.........................X pts/model

*Tornado pattern with one of the following:

-Heavy bolter............................................X pts/model

-Heavy flamer...........................................X pts/model

-Multi-melta...............................................X pts/model

-Assault cannon........................................X pts/model

[facmanpob]

Yeah, but I did clearly state in my original post that I was referring to the digital codex......

[Bryan Blaire]

Agreed, but you said they are adding spurious words and to read the Codex entry. They aren't spurious, because they are in the entry.

[Brother Immolator]

@Alvena, this is exactly the same in the English digital codex.

The entry is really, really clear and I can't fathom why people are having a problem with it, and I wish people would stop adding spurious words into the codex entry (such as 'Tornado pattern' and 'nose-mounted'). They only serve to confuse. Read the codex entry people!

Yeah, but I did clearly state in my original post that I was referring to the digital codex......

@Alvena, this is exactly the same in the English digital codex.

The

entry is really, really clear and I can't fathom why people are having a

problem with it, and I wish people would stop adding spurious words

into the codex entry (such as 'Tornado pattern' and 'nose-mounted').

They only serve to confuse. Read the codex entry people!

Apparently I have read the codex entry and it reads both tornado and typhoon, brother. As I quoted on the previous page.

So...Why dont you reread it

But I agree it is quite clear on purpose.

I'll go one better and post an image from the codex

(with the costs blacked out to stave off trouble!). Please point out to

me where the word Tornado is printed, or where it says you can upgrade

to a Typhoon pattern speeder..... (obviously one of the weapon options

is to take a Typhoon missile launcher, but this is different to what

people have been writing in this thread.

http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii324/facmanpob/photo_zpse0d83b4e.jpg

Well, that doesn't account for the fact we are 'adding spurious words' does it? Hadn't I know you better I would of thought that I was speaking with a certain, less morally balanced person in these forums, so I know the above must have been frustration based on something else or a slip of the tongue (so to speak) so lets put it behind us.

Heres for reference. And Yes and thank you Brian this is scanned from my hard copy. Too much hassle for a couple of words really.

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/601095_10151449405784172_1871409433_n.jpg

[Cpt_Reaper]

I didn't mean to cause such a stir, I was simply afraid of RaW which gave me the impression that upgrading to a tornado pattern or typhoon pattern excluded a speeder from being a "any speeder" and therefore from upgrading the heavy bolter. I admit it was a silly thing to think and in hindsight it is very simple to see that it is not the case.

Again I apologise to anyone I upset by my mistake.

[Cactus]

It's GW that should be apologising for a ridiculous lack of consistency between the hard copy and digital editions. The muppets.

[Alvena]

imho, it just show that pure raw interpretation, is trying to use/make loophole.

The intent of the rules is to choose wargear freely, and it has been corrected on digital /translated version.

I second cactus, that is not your fault if the final product (printed English version) isn't clear !

Now, let's burn some heretics to celebrate our reconciliation !

[Brother Immolator]

Reconcile? There was no division in the first place. But I wont turn down an offer to burn some heretics!

[facmanpob]

@ Brother Immolator - let's just say it was a bad day at the office (health and safety meeting melted my brain), burn some heretics together and all be brothers again! :tu: :)

 

As Cactus said, it's all GWs fault for not being able to be consistent. Sorry if I wound anyone up! :)

[Brother Immolator]

@ Brother Immolator - let's just say it was a bad day at the office (health and safety meeting melted my brain), burn some heretics together and all be brothers again!

As Cactus said, it's all GWs fault for not being able to be consistent. Sorry if I wound anyone up!

Throws facmanbob a flamer: Here my treat :D

[facmanpob]

All in for the big DA group hug! ;) ....or should that be 'group heretic purge?'

 

Back to topic for a second .... Now that we've worked out that the various different versions of the codex have entries which are presented differently, can anyone actually think of a good reason why GW would do that? I must admit that I'm struggling why anyone in their right mind would make the English digital version match the French hard copy (which seems to be what Alvena is reporting), and yet be different from the English hard copy.

 

Makes no sense to me .... :(

[Brother Immolator]

All in for the big DA group hug! ....or should that be 'group heretic purge?'

Back to topic for a second .... Now that we've worked out that the various different versions of the codex have entries which are presented differently, can anyone actually think of a good reason why GW would do that? I must admit that I'm struggling why anyone in their right mind would make the English digital version match the French hard copy (which seems to be what Alvena is reporting), and yet be different from the English hard copy.

Makes no sense to me ....

Speed to publish it over foolproofing is my guess. They need to swell their cofers before the profit projection meeting of their shareholders.

Same thing that happened with failcast. They had to put it out as fast as possible for some reason or the other.

[shabbadoo]

I'm rather offended with the way you chose to address me; by taking a condescending attitude and implying that I am just a sycophant for GW.

Dude. It is called a joke. It plays upon a common complaint about GW and is not condescension, nor an indictment of you being a GW sycophant. I figured that the over the top nature of the comparison would be a BIG clue to that. Apparently it wasn't. You need to grow a sense of humor.

Otherwise, trading 180 points of your army for 100 points (if that) of enemies is foolish. Actually taking offense at a foolish example being called foolish is, well, best expressed by this:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/btmcrae/fool.jpg

I hope the humor is obvious enough there, and that you are not offended by it.

As to Brother Immolator, no, I didn't edit my second post to be more friendly, as I wasn't being unfriendly to begin with, just making a simple, honest observation (I think the moderators got it, even you you didn't). I am a horrible typist (some of you may have noticed this by now), so I need to correct things. Rather often. That is why I edited the post. I took a bit more care with this one, but I'll probably miss something still (and so I did).

Anyways...

Everyone must also remember that any weapon can only kill those models that are in range of it, meaning, for heavy flamers, models able to be touched in some way by the template- hits don't just carry through to any model in the target unit if the model is not in range of the template to begin with. So, the heavy flamer option for Land Speeders SUCKS ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE SUCKED versus nearly every type of foe because of the basic range limit and how optimal targets will cost less points, meaning even if you kill more of them (up to the number of models that actually are in range to begin with) it still won't make up the points difference, and so that is not much of an arguable point at all either. There are only a few units that are optimally suited to being attacked by such a unit as this, and they practically have to be cooperative.

[Brother Immolator]

shabbadoo, on 07 Mar 2013 - 14:19, said:

As to Brother Immolator, no, I didn't edit my second post to be more friendly, as I wasn't being unfriendly to begin with, just making a simple, honest observation (I think the moderators got it, even though you didn't). I am a horrible typist (some of you may have noticed this by now), so I need to correct things. Rather often. That is why I edited the post. I took a bit more care with this one, but I'll probably miss something still (and so I did).

There edited that for you I am too a horrible typist so I can share in on the fun

Anyways its not my place to judge on the merits of hostility when I am not involved, I was merely observing how it seems at first glance. Do with it what you will but do spare a second to think about the way its viewed. After all not all of us are native/fluent. The failings of enturnut.