The Allure of the Traitor Legions

[Saa]

Ok, it's been some time since I've posted, real life tightens it's barbed noose on free time as you garner more responsibilities, but I've still been an avid reader and over the last month or so a few topics have got me on a train of thought. As our Legions get fleshed out more and more in the HH series, our interpretations of them may be changing.

I'd like to start out by stating categorically this is not a 'mah primarch is betta dan ur primarch' thread so please keep that kinda thing out of it. However, it does strike me that when we as people choose our armies, it's usually much more than because we like the colour scheme

Most will feel some sort of affinity to the Primarch or Legion (Chapter w/e I'm not splitting hairs, I'm a Word Bearer fan, we're still a Legion). But generally this is only applicable to the loyalist element of our power armored bretheren. It's tough to imagine a World Eaters player following this train of thought because they 'Kill, Maim and Burn' their way through life whereas people that play for example Imperial Fists could potentially draw comparison to their own personality traits of stoic and loyal which initially drew them to the faction.

Whilst I'm very well aware that not all players choose their armies based on personal comparison, it seems in my experience from speaking especially with loyalist players that they like to sympathise with their chosen Primarch by sharing similar personality traits and characteristics. Our long term compadré and Guru of all things Ultramarine, Legatus is most likely the easiest example of this. As an Ultramarines fan he will dogmatically draw upon accurate and documented fact to deal with any and all argument leveled at the XIII and their actions / history with the applied efficiency and appropriate context that would make RG proud.

This cannot really be said for those of us that choose to represent those that fell to the ruinous powers. So the question I ask to the fallen children of the Allfather is twofold. Firstly, why would you choose the Legion that you fell in love with and secondly do you prefer the vision the Legion had before the Heresy or after it?

Because it's cool is really an answer I'd like to avoid being posted.

For me, and my love of Lorgar and his Word Bearers it actually stems from the hatred that people feel for him. I 'always' rout for the underdog. It staggers me the ignorance people have when they refer to him as 'the weakest Primarch'. Weakest how? Physically? Sure, I'll give you that one. So he can't bench press the same weights as Leman Russ. Emotionally? Tough to say to be honest, he took a crushing kick in the balls at Monarchia, had his belief system demolished by the one being he loved and adored. Do any of you love someone? Do you love someone so much that you would do anything for them? Now prise in the fact that this person you love created you too. Now add that no matter your accomplishments, the one you love, their accomplishments exceed yours a hundredfold. 'Hey, that shizz don't matter, you love them right?'. Now imagine that person crushing your every belief and hope and dream and not only that, having your big brother be the instrument of the crushing.

You can call 'yah but da Emprah always said he wasn't a God' and sure I'll give you that too, but how many of you with partners have said to your better half 'Wow you look beautiful today' only to hear them say 'oh ...no I don't but thank you' ? People believe what they want to believe and hear what they want to hear. And again for me to detract from the 'weakest Primarch' sentiment......... How 'weak' are you if you alone (by alone I mean as a singular Legion in this respect) broach the creation of the biggest rebellion the Imperium has known? Takes a big set of cajones as far as I'm concerned to stand up and say......'Fudge this shizz, i'm not only gonna take you down, i'm gonna go after your favourite son first to back me up!!!!'

I do prefer the Word Bearers pre heresy and during the heresy to their current incarnation as they seem to be aimless and without purpose other than 'generic bad guy #7' but I suspect recent BL publications about them wil set precedents regarding thier creed and will hopefully dictate how they're written about in the future.

So fellow heretics, why do you love your Legion, and do you prefer them as they are being depicted in the HH series we're being given or the future variation in '40k'?

This question is of course open to Loyalist lovers too as long as you're avoiding my initial assumption at the start of 'cos he's just liek meh'.

Saa

.......or something like that

[Zynk Kaladin]

Well I fell in love with the Blood Angels and Night Lords, hence my DIY chapter . Now I'm not the most eloquent of writers and probably can't perfectly explain why I like the Night Lords other than they're complete and utter badarses, but here goes:

The main reason I like the Night Lords is due to Curze's ideals before he went bat- insane (heck, even after). Most remember him as a fear mongering tyrant, but when he took control of Nostramo he was actually a very beneficent ruler. He has a very strong sense of justice where the righteous are rewarded and the immoral are punished, harshly. Obviously he wasn't perfect, but he ALWAYS had a strong sense for righteousness, even when being malign himself. He even got himself killed just to prove this very point. I'd claim he is the ONLY primarch who truly understood what the Horus Heresy was about: when a man sees two monsters fighting, he can only hope that both die. The Imperium is a monster, Horus and his pawns are monsters, his legion are monsters, he himself is a monster. There's no goodness in the galaxy, only varying degrees of guilt.

Now, as for the Night Lords themselves, I loved them and HATE THEM for what they are now. Back then, they spread fear to break their enemies psychologically. It was a weapon and a means to an end, not the end itself. Their "punish the wicked, reward the faithful" mentality is very appealing to me. Unfortunately the influx of murderer, rapists, cowards, and thieves into the ranks of the Astartes corrupted what their legion stood for and they became nothing but a waste of space. They stand for nothing. They have no desire to improve humanity whatsoever. They are the very embodiment of "traitor", the blackest of the black. This is why Curze hated his own legion and crippled them. He wanted his sons to die.

If that's not the most metal metal thing I've heard, than Curze can torture me for eternity. \m/

[depthcharge12]

Well Saa I turned from pretty boy BAs to the World Eater legion for a few reasons...especially now that they've been more fleshed out in Betrayer, After Desh'ea, and mentioned in a few parts in other books.

 

I see the legion as a misunderstood band of brothers if one could call them that. In HH Betrayal the rule book it mentions (read:suggests) that the original war hounds recruits were screened for competitive and aggressive traits (yes they took all the WAAC 40K players lol) and it seems to me there was little brotherhood between the men, although I haven't read ADB's Betrayer yet but intend on reading it. The world eaters and Angron in particular are willing to go farther than others to accomplish their goal, have a strong sense of honor, and only value brotherhood/comraderie in the forge of battle were words mean little and actions speak...one of the many reasons the WE librarians were outcasts as they endangered their own men by fighting. Yet the WEs are misunderstood.

 

The World Eaters wholly embody and embrace (though they and Angron despise it) the salute to roman emperors "by this death we honor you." They see no end in sight for the legion after the crusade and don't seek to improve their self image as they know their true role as astartes.

 

The World Eaters legion seeks honor in death and are quite tragic heroes...the ends justify the means. This is not to say they don't have other moments of glory though such as the flying-meltabomb-Skraal and Captain Ehrlen delaying the advance of Angron to let Tarvitz escape.

 

I chose the WEs because I too am quite competitive and enjoy winning (I mean who doesn't, but it pays to be a winner) in real life, I'm unafraid to deploy dirty, underhanded tricks and throw myself at certain opponent when enraged, and I wanted to join the USMC to seek glory even though it might mean death.

 

On the tabletop I chose the WEs because they aren't afraid of cc (I played tau for so long ;) ), get into the opponents face while their own legion is firing danger close, and have a pretty awesome paint job to boot.

 

I hope this response answers your question and I do prefer the 30k version because it seems the bezerkers now are just hulk smash cuz we're annnngry blood skullzzz yaddayaddayadda.

 

The 30k legion was the embodiment of what astartes were meant for and a thunder warrior mkII in comparison. The astartes were meant for war- not ruling worlds, not preaching, and certainly not being beuracrats or farmers- the astartes were too far removed from humanity to function in those roles in the way that we have citizen soldiers nowadays in developed countries. The World Eaters knew they were only meant for war and took a relish to it. Yet they saw themselves as slaves with no chance of freedom from their way of life once they had accomplished their goal which may be one reason why they turned from the imperium (notice not the emperor).

 

I expect night lord fans (and maybe ADB) to start popping out of whatever rocks they are hiding under to reply to your question in 3....2....1

;) lol

 

 

Edit: hahahaha I got jacked before I put up my post about the NL fans lol. Zynk, thank you for proving me right

[Grimdarkness]

For me it was the lion here's a primarch who was good at what he did (I know there all good at what they do) but he was never showy about how good he was. The lion and the wolf is perfect to show this why allow russ to muck up he's plan because of hurt feeling's. 

 

It's always the quite one's.

[Wade Garrett]

I used to favor Curze (first Warhammer 40k novel I ever read was "Lord of the Night") but ever since "The First Heretic" it's been Aurelian. Both of us consider faith an essential element of the human race.

 

When Lorgar's faith was tested, he did not, as many maintain, take the easy way out and run to the first thing that would accept his worship. He sought answers, put his own beliefs and the Imperial Truth to the question..and emerged with The Truth. It may not have been pretty, it may not have been nice, but it was true and it was what humanity needed, lest it fall to the wiles of xenosbreeds and the claws of the neverborn.

 

And he brought that truth to the Imperium, no matter how it scarred his body, mind, and soul. And the fight against Corax on Isstvan..he knows he can't beat the Raven. Kor Phereon and Erebus are cajoling, justifying, pleading with him not too..but Corax is killing his sons, his Gal Vorbak, who broke themselves so he might find Enlightenment.

 

"We have found gods to worship, but we are not enslaved to them. My life is my own. My death..is my own as well." And Aurelian goes to his death with his boots on. That's why the XVII are my Legion.

[Kol Saresk]

For me, it is a complicated yet simple answer. I chose the Night Lords because out of all Legions, Renegades, and Loyalists, they admit to the truth of the 40k universe: There is no good. Most of them realize this and accept who they are and that they will burn in whatever hell awaits them in the warp, but they will go with a smile on their face knowing that they did exactly what they wanted to.

 

Very few of them hide behind facades of "honor" and "nobility." Very few were ever loyal to their Primarch. An even smaller number(if it exists) were loyal to the Emperor the time the Heresy broke out.

 

And yet, despite all of this, their honesty about their darker nature has been vindicated. The Emperor could have stopped Curze at any point in time from going down the road he did. The Administratum could have kept the fear of the Night Haunter in the people of Nostramo. But they didn't. The Night Lords became the very weapon they say they are. The Emperor may not have sanctioned the transformation, but he did nothing to stop it and as such, he is just as responsible for the Night Lords as Curze and the Administratum.

 

And as such, they are vindicated. They know and admit they are monsters and they are not wrong when they say the Imperium and the Emperor is at fault because they are.

 

I hope that post made sense because it looked like jibberish to me

[A D-B]

Great topic. Lot of nuance in this one. My problem in answering it is that despite almost exclusively writing about the Traitor Legions, I don't prefer them. I don't really prefer anything.

 

I'm always slightly jealous of anyone who has definite favourites like this. Like, the people who can say "I've been waiting for the [insert Legion Name] novel because they're my favourite", or "I play [insert Legion Name] because they're my fave." I mean, I like this stuff enough to devote my entire career and most hours of my life to writing about it. It's not a lack of passion, or an unfocused affection spread vaguely across everything. Quite the opposite. It's overwhelming.

 

For me, choosing armies is always a nightmare, whether it's to write about them, paint them, or play them. Time is finite - and my time is no more or less finite than anyone else's - but I love almost every faction. I can barely point at a Space Marine Chapter or Legion that I actually don't love, because I see something inherently writable and playable in every one of them. If I do that Alpha Legion warband then I'm not doing that Brotherhood of Darkness warband / Night Lords splinter I wanted to do; or the 10th Company Ultramarines I promised myself I'd finally start; or the Crimson Fists I've always wanted to do to honour Rogue Trader's cover; or the Minotaurs strike force that I'm aching to give a shot. 

 

Same with the Heresy when it came time to choosing an army for my Tale of Five Gamers. Admittedly, I was reluctant to do some Legions, because I'd written about them and I despise nonsense accusations of bias ("He only made them great in the book because he plays them" etc.). But it makes choosing a direction into an exercise in madness. I like the Salamanders. I like their 'fire & forge & draconic' themes, and I like painting green. I have some cool ideas what a Salamander warhost would look like, and how it would function. But I can say that about pretty much every Legion. I can reel off pages and pages of what I like about all of them, what tempts me to do them, and so on. It's like ice cream - I like pretty much every single flavour of ice cream I've ever tried (which explains my chubby hamster-style cheeks). At a push, I'd say Raspberry Ripple was my favourite, but it's a tiny, tiny difference. If there's every flavour of ice cream on offer, 8 times out of 10 I'll choose something else. Similarly, at a push, I'd say the Blood Angels are my favourite Legion, but a lot of that is nostalgia rather than their lore - I don't see their lore or colour scheme as being particularly more compelling than any other Legion, but they were my first Chapter when I was a kid, and I have a lot of ideas for how they'd be distinct from other Legions. Also, like to write about vampires. (In fact, I really miss the time when vampires were interesting and the subject of incredible fiction, rather than a social media joke).

 

In the end I didn't choose the Space Wolves because they're my favourite, the same way I didn't write about the Night Lords, Word Bearers and World Eaters because they're my favourites. I chose them because I had more relevant ideas for them at the moment someone said "It's time to choose" - and in the case of the Heresy series, a lot of the other Legions were reserved by other authors. Specifically, the Blood Angels have been off the table for a long, long time. And indeed, as with my Tale of Five Heretics deal, the Blood Angels were already taken by John French there, too.

 

I didn't mind, because like I said, I love almost everything. That's not some cop-out for someone trying to avoid annoying certain parts of the fandom; it's a huge part of the hobby's and setting's appeal to me. The fact I can pick up any codex or Chapter or Legion and find a mountain of stuff I want to write about, and dream up background-themed army lists, is one of the main draws to 40K (and now to 30K). As a kid, I never liked the Orks, as I thought they were silly and had no place in the themes of 40K. I love them now. Two Ork codexes later, I keep promising myself I'll get around to that Ork Waaaaagh I want to do, and write pages of background for our campaign.  

 

Making up new stuff is easy, and I do it enough as part of my day to day life. What I like to do with my armies is take something established and explain it better, show more of it, and show the variety and depth within that apparently generic selection. My Space Wolf warband will resemble absolutely nothing from Prospero Burns or Bill King's novels, and in many ways, that's the point. Similarly with my work, I try not to speak for the Legion or the Chapter in question - just showing what life is like for a specific warband within that culture. It's an example, not a mandate. It's not my place to kick in the door and tell anyone that This Is The Definitive Way That Faction X Functions, or how to do their army. I accept, natch, that that's exactly what a lot of readers and gamers do want, of course. I just doubt they'll get it from me.

 

(On a related note, you'll see the Legions I've written about in the Horus Heresy are wildly scattered across the galaxy fairly early on in the conflict, compared to some of the others. I scattered them purely to spread the war; to highlight the fact it wasn't just primarchs sailing around with 100,000 men, and the Legions really were spread out while they burned the galaxy on the march to Terra. It creates space for people's own Heresy armies, rather than saying "[Legion Name Here] only did X and Y... then it was straight to Terra" which is simplistic nonsense given the scale of the war and the fact it lasted over 7 years. There were thousands of battles over worlds we've never heard about, and many, many of them involved the Legions. Now they'll even involve your armies, as we all play those battles, rather than replaying Isstvan II and V a million times, as if that's all that happened pre-Terra.)

 

I chose the Space Wolves like I choose any army: not for what's already written about them, but for what can be written, what depth, uniqueness, and originality can be shown. What will make them mine - or at least, what will make this slice of the pie into something that's mine. It's why I always prefer to do established armies (my test-painted Eldar are Alaitoc; my test-Scouts are Ultramarines; my Chaos Marines are almost always mono-Legion), and so on.

[Artein]

I'm with ADB on this one. I'm unable to pick my favorite Legion/Chapter myself as well. 

 

Years ago I was like "I like Tzeentch, Thousand Sons are for me."

But then "Meh, Word Bearers are cooler"

And after that "Night Lords, they are dark ones, like evil Batman, misunderstood yet still really bad guys"

Then I was like "Damn! Nurgle Space Marines are awesome, I totally love Death Guard"

And then "I am Alpharius!"

"Pre-Heresy World Eaters were rad."

"Dorn is my favorite Loyalist Primarch. Maybe Imperial Fists then?"

"Lion? Sure, love him."

 

The reason I've picked Black Legion for my CSM is because I can have everything in it, every Mary Sue I come up with, every cool and not that cool idea. Slaaneshi Warp Talons? Sure. Night Lord Dark Apostle? Sure. Emperor's Child that is escaping Slaanesh's grasp and by doing so is favored by Tzeentch (or one of his daemons)? Sure. Broken Loyalist Space Marines? Sure. Everything.

 

Also I want to start a HH Legion. Can't decide. At all. So many ideas. So many possibilities. That's why I'm still "Later, I'll read some more, maybe I'll decide then." My wallet loves this approach.

[Zynk Kaladin]

 

I hope that post made sense because it looked like jibberish to me

 

Makes perfect sense to me, although personally I don't blame the Emperor (I'm always bias for my Emprah).  Like you said, it's a really complicated yet simple issue.  I both hate and like them at the same time so it's kind of difficult to explain.

[mactire]

I picked the wolves not for their codex,because ive never played a game, partially for the fluff but mainly because i always had a thing for wolves. I always found them different to other animals and love the lone wolf but also pack mentality they possess. When i first read 1k sons and PB i was hooked for life.

 

However if i was to pick a traitor legion it would be NL purely because of sevatar and A D-B's prince of crows.

[Brother Ambroz]

I've been into Night Lords since Lord of the Night and then when ADB started his trilogy I just got more into them. The reasons behind that are mostly because I'm into doing what I see as "right" and "just" even if others don't see it that way. That's mostly it, well.... that and I'm a little bonkers too.

[Azarias]

I dipped back into Warhammer about two years ago, and ended up re-embracing the Word Bearers after reading "A Thousand Sons." There, Lorgar is referred to as "The Urizen" - a reference that strikes dear to my heart, as I'm attempting to pursue a career in academia with a focus on the poetry and prose of William Blake.

 

Academic Aside: see, Urizen is a figure from Blake's mythos. The etymology of his name is revealing, being tied to both the elision of "Your Reason" and horisdein, the Ancient Greek word for "to bind" or "to limit," also the root word for the english "horizon." In Blake's canon, he's the embodiment of absolute religious control. In The Book of Urizen, for example, he creates an analogy for the Ten Commandments, "the Book / Of eternal brass, written in my solitude" (II.7), which comprise of "Laws of peace, of love, of unity: / Of pity, compassion, forgiveness" (II.8), though they are ultimately reduced to "One command, one joy, one desire, / One curse, one weight, one measure, / One King, one God, one Law." (II.8). Though there are other facets to his image - Urizen also represents the, in Blake's eyes, equally reductive and domineering logic of Enlightenment thought (i.e., the Imperial Truth), which spoils the analogy somewhat - I enjoy the series of associations I note between Lorgar and Urizen. That the link provides a fertile source of inspiration regarding modelling and background for my army is an added bonus.

[Balthamal]

I've always found discussions like this a pain, not because I'm tired of them but because every time I see one I ask myself the question about what is my favorite. Hard part number one is reconciling how the 30K Legion differs from 40K Chapters/Legions. The World Eaters for example fell from honorable warriors through lobotomized psychopaths struggling to retain the brotherhood they live by to abandoning all of that in the end and dedicating themselves to the kill above all else.The Blood Angels are another one. As a Legion they were the epitomine of everything that was good about the Imperium whilst concealing their devloping flaw whereas as a Chapter they're still trying to present that ideal but also coming to the realization that they are a dying Chapter. What I've found is that the character of a particular Primarch will draw me to a Legion rather than the Legion itself which stands to reason since the Legions eventually came to reflect the Primarchs almost perfectly. 

 

The only way I can make it half sensible is by showing who I like and why.

 

Blood Angels - They're dying and they know it but they're still fighting and always will. And Sanguinius? He knew he was going to die but still went to face down Horus at the end - epic.

 

Thousand Sons - The cults within companies is an interesting mechanic, hard to care in 40k due to the majority being suits of dust. Magnus certainly helps, his protrayal changing from a power hungry sorcerer to someone who made his mistakes whilst trying to do the best thing for others - stopping the flesh change, attempting to warn the Emperor of the impending betrayal. Tragic and compelling all at once.

 

Alpha Legion - Slight comparison to the Raven Guard in their operation, very secret guerrilla type tactics but infiltration with operatives as well so that provides an interesting dynamic. Twin Primarchs, whats not to like especially since there is now doubt about whether they're both striving for the same thing and whether they really were fighting for the Emperor all along.

 

As far as the Blood Angels go they were my first 40k army so I was more attracted to their later fluff. The other two come mainly from reading HH so it's a nice contrast. Overall I would have to go with either Night Lords (mainly for the reasons that have already been listed previously) or Alpha Legion because in the ten thousand years since the Heresy they're still true to themselves as they were I've found. The White Scars might have gotten in but there's just not that much material about them and although I actually like the idea of the Ultramarines Legion I despise the Ultramarines Chapter so they're a no no too

[Legionator]

As an Imperial Fists fan my favourite is of course Rogal Dorn. He just did his job, no whining, no over zeal, no petty ambitions or envy. He was the perfect son. I also adore the Lion and Sanguinius for their loyalty against all odds.

 

In traitor legions I respect Night Haunter. He was a straight guy, he didn't babble about faith, honour etc. He just said "O.K. guys, we are evil". Alpharius and Magnus were loyal but their arrogance cost dearly.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Eh, I used to like the Alpha Legion when their fluff made them out to be all sneaky Special Forces gits carrying out an endless guerilla war on the Imperium.  Back when their Pre-Heresy fluff was that they were disciplined, exacting perfectionists who tried out unconventional tactics to test themselves in combat.  Back when Alpharius joined Horus simply because he'd never been that close to the Emperor and decided that fighting other Space Marines would be a true test of the Alpha Legion's battlefield skills.  Back when their fluff stated that they turned into sneaky, infiltrating, unconventional warfare using Galactic Irritants after the Heresy because that's the only way they could carry out a war against a vastly superior enemy.  When they were the 40K equivalent of everyinsurgent force in history.

 

When the Black Library turned them into silly James Bondmarines constantly pulling off their masks Mission Impossible style as each successive story, they became stupid, and I lost interest.  I actually had a small Alpha Legion army back in the old, old days.  I don't miss it now.

 

These days, I've flitted with doing another Chaos army (it won't ever happen because my interest in the physical manifestations of 40K waxes and wanes far too often), but I'd use the Night Lords not because I like their fluff all that much, but because I like the Heart of Darkness references.  But I'd do it without all the ludicrous bat wing helmets, lol. And probably much more "realistically" and conventionall brutal.  but I'm more into modeling than anything else when it comes to the tabletop.  Ultimately, the lack of quality plastic Chaos models and the goofier turn their range of vehicles and other support options has gone is probably why I've never had much interest in a Chaos army.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I was originally drawn to the Alpha Legion for the same reasons that Veteran Sergeant just stated.  On the opposite end of the spectrum, however, I appreciate and enjoy the twist on that background that the Horus Heresy has given them.  I'd rather have Mission Impossible-fake-face-tearing-off Marines than the mustache-twirling Word Bearers from Battle for the Abyss, the constant in-fighting of the "modern" Iron Warriors, or the listless, directionless Night Lords (just as examples).  The fact that no one really knows anything concrete about the XX Legion also gives me massive leeway to tell the story of my army the way I want it told without any external restrictions imposed by codex fluff or the Black Library.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Battle for the Abyss was not only one of the worst 40K novels I've ever read, it's just an absolutely awful novel in general, with horrible characterization of both the antagonists and the protagonists.  I feel it's unfair to cast aspersions on any of the Legions based on the depictions therein, lol. 

 

Ed: It was actually the first one I read, and very nearly the last due to how bad it was.  If I were TBL, I'd ensure it was never reprinted simply to avoid any other readers accidentally having the same experience I had.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That's an excellent point, but I feel the Word Bearers in 40k are still similar in nature. I was extremely unimpressed with the Dark Something series and those characters as well.

[depthcharge12]

I would have to say as a digression that the only good/ somewhat hilarious part in the Abyss was the flying meltabomb-Skraal ;)

[Vesper]

I was originally drawn to the Alpha Legion for the same reasons that Veteran Sergeant just stated.  On the opposite end of the spectrum, however, I appreciate and enjoy the twist on that background that the Horus Heresy has given them.  I'd rather have Mission Impossible-fake-face-tearing-off Marines than the mustache-twirling Word Bearers from Battle for the Abyss, the constant in-fighting of the "modern" Iron Warriors, or the listless, directionless Night Lords (just as examples).  The fact that no one really knows anything concrete about the XX Legion also gives me massive leeway to tell the story of my army the way I want it told without any external restrictions imposed by codex fluff or the Black Library.

That is why you should join the glorious Black Legion !

 

Its been like ten years since I started. Got hooked up by the Black Legion.

It was the golden age, with IA articles in our WD. I started collecting Black Legion, with their easy (and great) paint scheme, their awesome background (once the best of all legions, with the best Primarch, falling from very very high, being almost annihilated. And the rise of Abaddon, the desire for vengeance, the hatred). I bought the 3.5 codex when it came out. Got doomed forever playing Chaos.

 

With the crappy gavdex, I tried to distract me, painting all my army into different stuff. Sons of Malice, Alpha Legion, Night Lords... Now, I'm painting all back to Black Legion, because I just can't help but finding them awesome. Also very happy of AD-B writing a series about Abaddon and his Legion.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Except. . . no.  I'm not a member of the "Failbaddon" camp by any means -- I understand that he's always had different objectives -- but I simply have no respect for his goal.  You see, Legion and Deliverance Lost opened my eyes to what the XXth's plan was all along.  I once explained this in a thread, but I couldn't tell you where it went (but the quote from Saa in my signature was his response to it), but I believe that the Alpha Legion simultaneously turned to Chaos while still remaining loyal to the Emperor.  Obviously, over so long a time frame, that mission has been corrupted, but the task given my warband's leader by the Primarchs remains as clear now as it did then.  We eliminate the Imperium's vulnerabilities one by one, exposing the weakness and the rot and the incompetence of its leaders. . . and destroying them.  The Imperium that is left when we are done will be smaller, but stronger for our efforts.  Leaner.  Meaner.  More agile, more powerful, and smarter than the memorial to monolithic stupidity that it has become without the Emperor's guiding hand.

 

So you see, taking the black won't help me one bit.

[Reinholt]

Bill James has an interesting theory about crime: criminals are not really any different from anyone else, or at least, not in the way we like to believe.

 

Circumstances drive decisions; bad decisions are driven by bad circumstances. In other words, any one of us could be a murderer, if we managed to take enough wrong steps down a path that ultimately led to that endpoint. Now, this is not to start a debate about the mentality of a criminal, nor is this to say that Bill James is necessarily correct, but it is to sort of reveal how I think about the traitor legions: wrong place, wrong time, terrible consequences in many cases.

 

A few great examples of this are Little Horus, Argel Tal, and Perturabo. All of them could have been great heroes in another setting, but somehow, a combination of circumstances and bad decisions put them on a path that lead to things like cutting the head off a former friend, having a daemon living inside of you, or playing with scale models (see what I did there?).

 

So in terms of the traitor legions I find compelling, it's always those who ended up slowly falling into their circumstances, often with the best of intentions, rather than those who have explanations more along the lines of "they were genuinely crazy" (world eaters) or "a wizard made them do it" (sons of horus, unfortunately, as I think they have some individually compelling characters but the whole Horus turning due to a trap thing has always felt like a bit of a cop out to me).

 

On the flip side of the coin, I find the iron warriors (the slow death of a thousand papercuts, and walking the road to hell with one tiny step at a time until they are so jaded and bitter that they do something like annihilate their own world), the thousand sons (guess that whole seeking knowledge for the good of man and warning the emperor about evil didn't work out so well, and now what?), the death guard (what kind of sacrifices would you make to escape eternal torment in the warp), and the alpha legion (a life of lies can go horribly wrong). Maybe that is just because I conceive their stories in my head in such a way that I can see the gradual slope more easily for them than some of the other legions, but that's how I look at it.

 

Similarly, the most interesting loyalists to me are also the ones closest to the edge: the Iron Hands (and their anti-flesh obsession) and the White Scars (surprisingly savage for a loyalist force).

 

But back to the topic, the fascination is that they could have been great heroes, only things didn't quite work out that way... it's the tragedy of that which appeals to me about it, as it's a fascinating playing field for background and armies.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I would have to say as a digression that the only good/ somewhat hilarious part in the Abyss was the flying meltabomb-Skraal

Skraal is by far my favorite side character in the HH series. Even his anger has muscles.

Edit: pesky spelling error

[Saa]

Legion and Deliverance Lost opened my eyes to what the XXth's plan was all along. I once explained this in a thread, but I couldn't tell you where it went (but the quote from Saa in my signature was his response to it), but I believe that the Alpha Legion simultaneously turned to Chaos while still remaining loyal to the Emperor.

Sir, I still use your extrapolation of the XX motives to this day. I'll repost it here for the pleasure of others to read

In regards to the whole "Did they believe the Cabal? If not, why did they turn?" issue, this is how I think of it.

Their rejection of the Emperor's utopian ideal and the implication behind the commentary from Pech about "managing and maintaining the flaws of man on an on-going basis" tells me that the Legion has a somewhat Darwinian attitude about humanity. When the Cabal tells them that a civil war is coming, they decide to test the theory and, if true, want to be on the rebel side for one reason -- to manage and maintain the flaws of man of an on-going basis. The Alphas didn't turn for the glory of Chaos or to see Horus win; they turned because it put them in a position to prey upon the Imperium and, through their attacks on it, teach the Imperium where its shortfalls are. After all, you learn more from losing than you do from winning, yes? The Alphas may be trying to help the Imperium by cutting away those pieces of it that they see as being too weak, too corrupted, or too ineffective to be of any real use to mankind as a whole.

Saa

.....or something like that

[Vazzy]

I've Always been drawn to the Iron Warriors. Especially in how they lay the ground work for the other legions to come and take credit for it. That resonated with me enough to create a warband that My dad and I work on.