DIY chapter concept, need help please

[ShasVa]

I'd like to write up, and possibly get an army for, a space marine chapter that encompasses the following:

• Xenos Hybris influence from radical elements of the Inquisition
• Xenarite influence from radical elements of the Mechanicus
• adherence towards the original ideal of the Imperial Truth
• no Psykers at all (fluff wise they somehow atrophy the psychic potential, no matter how small, in all recruits)
• a sense of duty to the Imperium's people and not necessarily the Imperium itself (if that makes sense)
• a legitimate interest in lost archeotech from the human Dark Age

The chapter would be lead by their Supreme Commander (or Chapter Master). Below him would be the Captains, ten in all. Equally respected would be the chapter's Forgesmith, a renowned expert when it comes to technology of all kinds.

 

They'd still have Chaplains, but they'd wear Iron Halos and wield Power Mauls unlike other chapters. In place of Psykers they would have a unit called Rune Wardens, who are specifically trained to target enemy Psykers, and are usually armed with Null Rods. They also have the Company Veterans, which are a mix of Sternguard and Vanguard. Their Terminator Squads are also similarly joined (assault is not separate from ranged).

 

Although the chapter is influenced by both Xeno Hybris and Xenarite elements, the technology recovered by such parties and the chapter itself is used for reverse-engineering into new Imperial designs, rather than direct use of "raw" xenos technology. It is more about applying better understanding than turning the power of the enemy against itself.

 

The chapter takes great interest in recovering lost human technologies, and they always put it to use once it has been properly examined thrice-fold. An example of this is when the chapter was recovering a cache of deadly weapons like Rad Missiles and Irradiation Projectors - a swarm of Tyranids attacked the planet and within days they were driven off thanks to the horrifying but effective power of the lost archeotech.

 

 

If I've missed anything of great importance, let me know. I'd like to get feedback and help on this subject.

[Captain Cirrius]

Ok to start out, I am by no means an expert on IA's so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

 

 

a sense of duty to the Imperium's people and not necessarily the Imperium itself (if that makes sense)

 

I actually just finished the first edit of my IA that is entirely focused around this idea. In order for it to make sense, you have to have an event that justifies them changing their minds. In their essence, Astartes are EXTREMELY loyal to the Imperium and it would take a lot to shake that faith and resolve. I SWEAR to you this is not a shamless plug, but you should should check out My IA as some people helped me build this premise, and I if you read what they had to say in their critiques, it might help you avoid some of the mistakes that I made early on in the development of this premise. I apologize for plugging my article in yours, but I think it coud save you some extra work later :)
 

 

Although the chapter is influenced by both Xeno Hybris and Xenarite elements, the technology recovered by such parties and the chapter itself is used for reverse-engineering into new Imperial designs, rather than direct use of "raw" xenos technology. It is more about applying better understanding than turning the power of the enemy against itself.

 

This would almost certainly garner Inquisitorial interest. While their are those Inquisitors that embrace this premise wholeheartedly, other would kill for this offense. There could be an interesting theme their as well.
 

***

 

Again, I am no expert at this, and my fluff knowledge is shaky at best, but these points jumped out at me. I do very much like the overall premise(s) of your chapter and think there is something very interesting here :)

[NightrawenII]

I'd like to write up, and possibly get an army for, a space marine chapter that encompasses the following:

• Xenos Hybris influence from radical elements of the Inquisition
• Xenarite influence from radical elements of the Mechanicus

Keep in mind you are a radical in the society emboiled in dogma, canon and conservatism. Which means something relatively simple: Everyone hates you and everything you stand for. You will find very few friends among the imperials and not just that, you will find yourself at receiving end of unreasonable malice every so often.

Such is the price for radicalism.

• a sense of duty to the Imperium's people and not necessarily the Imperium itself (if that makes sense)

Funny thing.... it doesn't work.

The Imperium is here to preserve the mankind in the grim and dark future. That's the point of Imperium... So why are the imperials such douchbags? Well, that's because the Imperium has long time ago come to conclusion that the humankind cannot afford to dwell on such thing like morals, etics and the like if he wants to survive in the uncaring galaxy.

Saying, "We will do all utmost and save everyone" is just naive. Never heard of;

*In order to be happy, one must be burdened with proportionate unhappines in exchange. The feeling is that, for something good to happen, one must put up with the rough times. Saying there's good for something bad does not have an optimistic meaning.*

Well, in W40k-verse this holds true hundred fold. Thus it's not like Imperium doesn't care, it's because the Imperium trades lives, planets, sectors to protect the greater whole. That's the deal. (Don't forget the Imperium was here for 10,000 years which invariably means it somewhat works.)

The marines are be faced with dilemmas like:

"We can save hundred right now, but thousand will die later."

OR

We can end the war right now, but thousand has to die."

The point is; no war - no more suffering - no more collateral damge - no more casualties - profit!!!

Anyone can make this deduction, even the Salamanders, and that's why all Astartes support the Imperium. Yes, some Chapter are more inclined to make sure there will be no more casualties than it's neccessary, few even might go out of their way to minimalize the amount of sacrifice. But that's as far as the Marines will go in their compassion.

If you guys cannot cope with how the Imperium handle the situation then Warhammer: 40,000 IS NOT universe for you... or you just ought to play Tau Empire. The simplest.

Although the chapter is influenced by both Xeno Hybris and Xenarite elements, the technology recovered by such parties and the chapter itself is used for reverse-engineering into new Imperial designs, rather than direct use of "raw" xenos technology. It is more about applying better understanding than turning the power of the enemy against itself.

The chapter takes great interest in recovering lost human technologies, and they always put it to use once it has been properly examined thrice-fold. An example of this is when the chapter was recovering a cache of deadly weapons like Rad Missiles and Irradiation Projectors - a swarm of Tyranids attacked the planet and within days they were driven

off thanks to the horrifying but effective power of the lost archeotech.

I call MISS(= Me? I'm So Super!) on this.

What makes Chapter cool is not the fancy stuff, but the marines themselves. Really, there is fair chance this will turn into "Looky, looky! My marines can use this awesome weaponry" (that's is just bleh ) rather than exploring the interesting character.

Moreover, the Imperium's mechanics arm, the Adeptus Mechanicus, has very weak grasp how the good portion of the imperial technology work. So reverse engineering the xenos tech is a little too ambitious.

Uhm, yeah. The Hammer of Woe is still as uncompromising as ever.

[Captain Cirrius]

Funny thing.... it doesn't work.

That seems like a quick way to write off an entire premise of a chapter. It absolutely works. You just have to come up with a justifiable event that can shake the resolve of a chapter in the Imperium. You're basically saying that a chapter has to accept the rule of the Imperium in order to love humanity.

The Imperium is here to preserve the mankind in the grim and dark future. That's the point of Imperium... So why are the imperials such douchbags? Well, that's because the Imperium has long time ago come to conclusion that the humankind cannot afford to dwell on such thing like morals, etics and the like if he wants to survive in the uncaring galaxy.

Saying, "We will do all utmost and save everyone" is just naive. Never heard of;

*In order to be happy, one must be burdened with proportionate unhappines in exchange. The feeling is that, for something good to happen, one must put up with the rough times. Saying there's good for something bad does not have an optimistic meaning.*

Well, in W40k-verse this holds true hundred fold. Thus it's not like Imperium doesn't care, it's because the Imperium trades lives, planets, sectors to protect the greater whole. That's the deal. (Don't forget the Imperium was here for 10,000 years which invariably means it somewhat works.)

The marines are be faced with dilemmas like:

"We can save hundred right now, but thousand will die later."

OR

We can end the war right now, but thousand has to die."

The point is; no war - no more suffering - no more collateral damge - no more casualties - profit!!!

Every point you have made here makes the argument for why a Chapter should support the Imperium, but none makes the point of why, in the 40k universe, a chapter MUST support the Imperium. Not all decisions are going to make perfect sense, and some outside variables may effect the mentaility of a chapter to the point where they would make such a desicion as to do something like "protect the citizens of the Imperium from the Imperium." You can make plenty of arguments for why they "shouldn't" (just as I could make arguments for why they should), but you simply can't make a valid argument for why they "can't" or "aren't allowed to" or why "it doesn't work". Few things cannot be justified when creating an IA (unless they direct conflict with established fluff).

***

So ShasVa, I say explore this idea of serving the people. It may turn out to work in your chapter, and it may turn out not to, but don't write off an idea before exploring thoroughly and from every possible angle, because you may just get something really cool

[Olis]

NightrawenII is certainly right about your chapter being hated, should it stick to Xenos Hybris and Xenarite tendancies. Granted they may have an ally or two but the overwhelming majority of those that can do something about it, will want to see your marines dead.

 

What with a fascination with lost archeotech, perhaps some form of an event could occur because of an artifact's direct influence, leading to those tendencies in the chapter. Just a thought.

[ShasVa]

I never meant to give the impression that my chapter will start sporting tech from multiple xenos species. Reverse-engineering is something they are capable of though. Some examples follow:

• "Destructor" is the weapon of the Technomaster (Master of the Forge), crafted from study of a recovered Necron Warscythe
• "Godslayer" is a potent anti-Warp weapon capable of annihilating warpspawn with extremely-little effort, exact origin unknown
• the Supreme Commander's personal weapon "Fulgurite" is a blade thought to have been forged during the Dark Age of Technology
• the chapter possesses a single Spartan Assault Tank, and a functioning Accelerator Cannon (an "Imperial Railgun" from what I've read)
• their Predators all have Plasma Destroyer turrets
• they have a unique flying unit, known as the "Stormcrow Jetfighter", which functions similar to the Dark Angel's Nephilim
• they have Suspensor Webs attached to most infantry-grade heavy weapons, most common of which is the Heavy Bolter

With their Xenarite and Xeno Hybris allies, the chapter has quite an armament. Yes I know they will be branded radicals, but I am okay with this. Once in a while someone has to challenge the grimdark status quo!!

 

More to come :)

[Captain Cirrius]

I never meant to give the impression that my chapter will start sporting tech from multiple xenos species. Reverse-engineering is something they are capable of though. Some examples follow:

• "Destructor" is the weapon of the Technomaster (Master of the Forge), crafted from study of a recovered Necron Warscythe
• "Godslayer" is a potent anti-Warp weapon capable of annihilating warpspawn with extremely-little effort, exact origin unknown
• the Supreme Commander's personal weapon "Fulgurite" is a blade thought to have been forged during the Dark Age of Technology
• the chapter possesses a single Spartan Assault Tank, and a functioning Accelerator Cannon (an "Imperial Railgun" from what I've read)
• their Predators all have Plasma Destroyer turrets
• they have a unique flying unit, known as the "Stormcrow Jetfighter", which functions similar to the Dark Angel's Nephilim
• they have Suspensor Webs attached to most infantry-grade heavy weapons, most common of which is the Heavy Bolter

With their Xenarite and Xeno Hybris allies, the chapter has quite an armament. Yes I know they will be branded radicals, but I am okay with this. Once in a while someone has to challenge the grimdark status quo!!

More to come

I think with this level of justification and examples, you have a solid premise to build your chapter around!

[Ecritter]

No Psykers?  How do your ships move?

[ShasVa]

No Psykers?  How do your ships move?

Haven't thought of it properly yet, but I'm thinking something to do with gravity and quantum-tunneling.

[Olis]

I'd personally suggest keeping Navigators and Astropaths. Not everything has to be replaced, otherwise things might start to encroach on 'special snowflake' domains. :confused:

[GreyFox]

I am by no means an expert on the Liber, but I hope my comments will help.

 

 

Haven't thought of it properly yet, but I'm thinking something to do with gravity and quantum-tunneling.

 

I highly advise against using this idea. By doing it you will do what the Emperor always wanted to do -- find a way around the Warp so humanity could avoid it. If he could not achieve better space-flight than the Warp then I find it very hard to believe your single chapter could. Not only that but even the most radical Inqusitor will balk at the idea of your chapter developing a completely new way of warp travel.

 

This says nothing about the kind of war the Adeptus Mechanicus would wage against you for tech-heresy, and it would be a heresy of such a degree that the Imperium would not turn a blind eye and would intervene to help destroy you.

 

 

In regards to your special technology, there are some critical flaws in it:

 

1.) No Necron technology has, to my knowledge, ever been reverse engineered by the Adeptus Mechanicus. Again, if the most tech savvy institution in the Imperium could not do this -- how can you chapter? Whom the Admech only shares just enough tech-knowledge to keep your Tech-Marines useful. They do not grant you much beyond that.

 

Thats the only glaring one I can answer with some confidence. The rest, however, seem a little out-there for me. Some chapters do have various 'patterns' of vehicles and wargear which is fine. But, and I may be reading this wrong, it appears you've made up vehicles for yourself. Again the AdMech looks at this has tech-heresy and even their most radical Magos or Inquisitor would find it hard to keep the more pure elements of themselves away from you.

 

 

Now, in regards to your chapter's desire to protect humanity. Personally I think their radicalism with technology would make them callous to their fellow man, rather than more compassionate. Most of humanity is indoctrinated to believe whatever the Imperium tells them. It tells them heresy is bad and being different is bad. So the masses of humanity would be more inclined to hate you, even though you are compassionate, than to love you.

[Ecritter]

 

No Psykers?  How do your ships move?

Haven't thought of it properly yet, but I'm thinking something to do with gravity and quantum-tunneling.

Looking at your chosen name, I take it you've studied alot about the T'au ... they have no psykers, and they can't travel in the warp and are limited in thier movements.  As far as I know, every race uses the warp to travel long distances ... making something else would be MISS and kinda ruin the game. That means there are some common things in the verse you just have to keep.

[Ecritter]

I never meant to give the impression that my chapter will start sporting tech from multiple xenos species. Reverse-engineering is something they are capable of though. Some examples follow:

• "Destructor" is the weapon of the Technomaster (Master of the Forge), crafted from study of a recovered Necron Warscythe
• "Godslayer" is a potent anti-Warp weapon capable of annihilating warpspawn with extremely-little effort, exact origin unknown
• the Supreme Commander's personal weapon "Fulgurite" is a blade thought to have been forged during the Dark Age of Technology
• the chapter possesses a single Spartan Assault Tank, and a functioning Accelerator Cannon (an "Imperial Railgun" from what I've read)
• their Predators all have Plasma Destroyer turrets
• they have a unique flying unit, known as the "Stormcrow Jetfighter", which functions similar to the Dark Angel's Nephilim
• they have Suspensor Webs attached to most infantry-grade heavy weapons, most common of which is the Heavy Bolter

With their Xenarite and Xeno Hybris allies, the chapter has quite an armament. Yes I know they will be branded radicals, but I am okay with this. Once in a while someone has to challenge the grimdark status quo!!

More to come

The problem is ... you seem to be taking the best of everyone else and giving it to your guys. Wait ... there goes game balance out the door.

[Captain Cirrius]

I think I may have thought of a way for your chapter to be able to have this Tech theme that you are after. You can take it or leave it, obviously :)

From what I understand, you want your chapter to be able to explore/utilize xenos technollogy. Based on the responses from others it seems clear that this is outside the general jurisdiction of SM chapter. Really the only individuals that show a precedent for this kind of work is some of more 'liberal' members of the Inquisition. It seems that usually people (myself included :P ) choose to make all interactions between Astartes and the =][= negative. What if, through a common goal/sense of curiosity, your Marines CHOSE to link up with a member of the Inquisition (on unofficial basis of course). In this way, you could justify your chapters access to the knowledge nessecary to attempt such reverse-engineering.

What do the other Liberites think? Could this be a possible way to achieve the goal that he wants with this chapter?
 

 

Most of humanity is indoctrinated to believe whatever the Imperium tells them. It tells them heresy is bad and being different is bad. So the masses of humanity would be more inclined to hate you, even though you are compassionate, than to love you.

 

I think you overestimate the Imperium. For every world where the Imperium has a strong hold, their are literally thousands where there influence is implied at best. Trillions of "Imperial citizens" go their whole lives and the only reminder that the Imperium even exists is the tithes they must pay. Personally I see no reason why it cannot be justified that his chapter chooses to "serve the people"

 

***

 

On the note of the psykers, I do agree that it is difficult to get around. In this, you are beggining to contradict established fluff of the 40k universe: that the Imperium and it's vessels utilize psykers as a means of transport. You make just have to fold to that one I think :(

[NightrawenII]

Funny thing.... it doesn't work.

That seems like a quick way to write off an entire premise of a chapter. It absolutely works. You just have to come up with a justifiable event that can shake the resolve of a chapter in the Imperium.

Oh, don't make me to come to your thread. You don't want to, believe me.

You're basically saying that a chapter has to accept the rule of the Imperium in order to love humanity

Ahem, no. What I'm saying here is that the Imperium is doing its best to save the humanity and the Adeptus Astartes acknowledge it. You might not like it, but that's all you can do about it.

Every point you have made here makes the argument for why a Chapter should support the Imperium, but none makes the point of why, in the 40k universe, a chapter MUST support the Imperium. Not all decisions are going to make perfect sense, and some outside variables may effect the mentaility of a chapter to the point where they would make such a desicion as to do something like "protect the citizens of the Imperium from the Imperium." You can make plenty of arguments for why they "shouldn't" (just as I could make arguments for why they should), but you simply can't make a valid argument for why they "can't" or "aren't allowed to" or why "it doesn't work". Few things cannot be justified when creating an IA (unless they direct conflict with established fluff).

Hm... I thought the reason is too obvious to bother with explanation. Obviously... not.

It's because anyone existing in the W40k-verse is a subject of the W40k-verse. These entities live, behave and think according to the laws of universe. In this case, the Space Marine Chapter will live, behave and think according to the laws of Imperium. Furthermore, Space Marines don't see Imperium as something bad or wrong. So, just that because you, the author, dislike Imperium is not enough. You need a very good reason to make these subjects to see Imperium as wrong.
That's in no case easy since Space Marines are Imperium. They have to stop, think about what they're doing and consider it wrong. That's rather strange and difficult thought gymnastics for Adeptus Astartes.

Summary of my point: Don't judge the Imperium by the morals of 21st Century*, judge it by the morals and ethics of Imperium.


* The moment you do you should slap yourself (or head-desk or something akin to that) because you are doing it wrong.

1.) No Necron technology has, to my knowledge, ever been reverse engineered by the Adeptus Mechanicus. Again, if the most tech savvy institution in the Imperium could not do this -- how can you chapter? Whom the Admech only shares just enough tech-knowledge to keep your Tech-Marines useful. They do not grant you much beyond that.

The Callidus phase sword is phase weapon based on necron tech, but it's hard to tell how much it was reverse engineered.

Edit:

Captain Cirrius, on 04 Mar 2013 - 16:23, said:

I think you overestimate the Imperium. For every world where the Imperium has a strong hold, their are literally thousands where there influence is implied at best. Trillions of "Imperial citizens" go their whole lives and the only reminder that the Imperium even exists is the tithes they must pay. Personally I see no reason why it cannot be justified that his chapter chooses to "serve the people"

It's not like the Space Marines brain-wash and indocrtinate their teen-aspirants... Wait a sec!?!?

~ NightrawenII

[Captain Cirrius]

Oh, don't make me to come to your thread. You don't want to, believe me.

Hm... I thought the reason is too obvious to bother with explanation. Obviously... not.

* The moment you do you should slap yourself (or head-desk or something akin to that) because you are doing it wrong.

Ok first off theirs, theirs no need to be condescending. I apologize if the fact that I disagree with you upsets you, but the Liber is a place for friendly debate to help everyone expand their knowledge of the hobby. Why don't we keep this civil and mature, eh?

It's because anyone existing in the W40k-verse is a subject of the W40k-verse. These entities live, behave and think according to the laws of universe. In this case, the Space Marine Chapter will live, behave and think according to the laws of Imperium. Furthermore, Space Marines don't see Imperium as something bad or wrong. So, just that because you, the author, dislike Imperium is not enough. You need a very good reason to make these subjects to see Imperium as wrong.

That's in no case easy since Space Marines are Imperium. They have to stop, think about what they're doing and consider it wrong. That's rather strange and difficult thought gymnastics for Adeptus Astartes.

It seems to me that your view of the 40k universe dehuminizes...well...everyone. Just because the vast majority of a population appears to subscribe to certain ideals doesn't mean that everyone within that society loses free will of opinion.

In this case, the Space Marine Chapter will live, behave and think according to the laws of Imperium. Furthermore, Space Marines don't see Imperium as something bad or wrong. So, just that because you, the author, dislike Imperium is not enough.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but in this section of your argument, you have esentially deinied that a Chaos/Renegade/Pirate Space Marine should or can exist, which directly contradicts some of the most essential aspects of established fluff. Established 40k fluff is FILLED with individuals and groups (SM or otherwise) whose resentment of the Imperium/Emperor has led them to denounce it/him.

[ShasVa]

Recongragationist (???) elements of the Inquisition want the current state of the Imperium torn down and rebuilt closer/exactly to what the Emperor originally desired. I would imagine that desire to return to the Imperial Truth would not be non-existent.

 

Heck, the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor in the Grey Knights codex actively sought out a massive null-zone projector device, which is stated to be a barrier thing that daemons can absolutely NOT get through. Sadly a Puritanical **** destroyed it before she could recover it. If she could have recovered it, I'd imagine it would be of great benefit to humanity.

 

Also had an idea that the chapter would use magnetic-accelerated ammunition for their bolter weapons, aka "Rail Rounds". Fluff wise this could be accomplished (study of Tau Railgun tech perhaps?) but game wise people would bitch too much (seems only Tau and GK can have S5 AP5 basic weapons). It is a concept inspired in-part by some background I read on the "Section 8" game duology.

 

I'm not saying that my chapter should be able to invent and use molecular disintegrator cannons, create soul stones, or rediscover the Dolman gates (the things the Necrontyr tried using to breach the Webway), but I don't want them to be so backwards like their bretheren either.

[Olis]

You'll have to bear in mind that there's, philosophically speaking, a rubber band placed around your chapter. They cannot stray too far from the garden path lest they be eaten or shot for trespassing, if you get my metaphor. These marines come from an Imperium that's oppressive and closed-minded - there can be certain things that they can shrug off but it'd be at a cost.

 

So, you wish them to have reverse-engineered tech. That in itself is a big leap in psychology for the chapter as the parent (Imperial) culture is not in the habit of endorsing innovation. In fact, 'innovation' could probably described as a dirty word considering the baggage that comes with the implications of trying to improve what humanity in the golden age of technology made. So, "being backwards" (from our point of view) is the exact starting point for most if not all Imperial citizens (which also goes for astartes).

 

Breaking from that would go one of two routes: Firstly, a gradual change over the millennia to something less like the standard Imperial outlook to something that's closer to our own. Secondly, a sudden paradigm shift as the result of a major event, which leaves the chapter changed. Either way they are going to be branded heretics (and hereteks) by the majority of those in power, as this sort of philosophy and equipment cannot be kept a secret forever. 

 

Now with all this in mind, adding in a deep interest in archeotech is going to mess with things further (which, I'm presuming, 'legitimate interest' means an interest above and beyond what the Imperium already has, otherwise it's a pointless tangent). You'll have to justify this point of view also and present how it interacts with the previous ones. If you don't, the IA will have the hallmarks of a special snowflake and no defence against allegations as such. 

[NightrawenII]

It seems to me that your view of the 40k universe dehuminizes...well...everyone.

Welcome in W40k, we hope you will enjoy your stay.

 

You see, *my view* is what constitutes W40k theme. This is not your average universe with the predictable good vs. evil, but evil vs lesser evil. That's what makes the warhammer so unique among the huge number of other 'verses. The first premise you have to understand is that, yes, the Imperium is wrong, ugly, despicable and repulsive but at same time it's humanitys best hope of survival. A delicious irony at the core.

 

And your precious little toy-soldiers are divinely ordained killers who live in and serve this oppressive, dystopian regimen.

 

Just because the vast majority of a population appears to subscribe to certain ideals doesn't mean that everyone within that society loses free will of opinion.

... in accordance with the universe they live in. Yes.

 

I'm not saying there is no divergency in opinion, but a 180° turn is too radical and out of context.

 

 

 

 In this case, the Space Marine Chapter will live, behave and think according to the laws of Imperium. Furthermore, Space Marines don't see Imperium as something bad or wrong. So, just that because you, the author, dislike Imperium is not enough.

 

I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but in this section of your argument, you have esentially deinied that a Chaos/Renegade/Pirate Space Marine should or can exist, which directly contradicts some of the most essential aspects of established fluff. Established 40k fluff is FILLED with individuals and groups (SM or otherwise) whose resentment of the Imperium/Emperor has led them to denounce it/him.

Ahem, this part was intended to establish a certain baseline for argument. The argument itself begins with "So, just...".

 

But, if you want me respond...

 

Ignoring the primordial traitors and chaos marines in general who have been just played by the chaos gods, there are two major causes for apostasy.

#1 The Chapter is spiraling out of control.

Either the Chapter is doing something what it considers right OR the Chapter utilizes a methods which are, even from  Imperium's standpoint, too extreme.

The joke here is that such Chapter consider itself loyal until the Imperium decides what is enough is enough and expel the Chapter. Point in case, Knights of Blood, Steel Cobras and Sons of Malice.

 

#2 The Imperium (un)intentionally tramples the Chapter.

Mind you, this *method* is not universal since the Chapters are somewhat patient and benevolent. Point is case, Fire Hawks, Star Phantoms and Celestial Lions.

 

 

~NightrawenII

[Wulfebane]

I think some of the things you're trying to do with reverse engineering is like reinventing the wheel. Abolishing psykers and thus warp travel, for instance, suddenly takes you out of the norms of the Imperium, placing you in your own category (or player race). Even the Black Templars permit Navigators.. without them, the fleet-based chapter would be a floating debris field.

 

Not to mention its not your chapter's place to reinvent the wheel. Its the admechs and by proxy the techmarines adjoined to each astartes chapter. They're the true techsavants and seldom if ever reveal the secrets of the machine spirits to outsiders, so you would need a massive amount of them in your chapter for the idea to work. Even so, the admech are only now rediscovering technologies forgotten in human advancement. They truly believe in machine spirits and treat technology as a religion rather than science. They can't even make jetbikes. How is it your chapter has all this knowledge, but the trillions of techmarines on Mars and abroad do not? To claim designs on some of your examples simply defy canon. The ctan phase sword, while a technological marvel, is still limited to the Callidus and not widespread. The Baal predator and advanced engines limited to the BA. To have such massive advancements secluded to one chapter in would make the admech pissed and the ordo xenos "inquisitive".

 

I think a better route would be like the Raven Guard. Out of necessity they retrofitted armor, resulting in PA improvements that lead to Mk 6 corvus pattern armor. Just minor tweaks to things like power circuitry or joint suppression can easily lead to a new mk pattern. Or maybe you use the GK codex for your chapter and treat their psychic advantage with tech support. Or maybe the teleporting backpacks are reverse engineered from warp spider suits or something. Whatever you go with, make it temperamental, even risky or fatal, limiting the desire for ordoxenos or admech to want it.

 

As for the humane aspect, it doesn't seem to jive well with a chapter that makes it a mission to rekindle technological advances. Such things would require testing and about the only thing in abundance in Imperial space are humans. What better subjects to test weapons of mass destruction on could you ask for?

[ShasVa]

If an anti-Psyker chapter like the Black Templars permit those types of Psykers, then I suppose my chapter can too. The difference being that while the Black Templars outright abhor and truly hate them, my chapter just sees them as a liability and prefers using technology over such things.

[Wulfebane]

Well, yes.. warp travel in general is a liability, but it's the best option we have and the only option offered to the Imperium that the Emperor himself could devise without access to the Webway.