Models covering eachother.

[Armfelt]

A terminator squad covering a Dreadnought is possible, but will they be able to cover a Sentinel and thus giving the vehicle a cover save? I am grateful for any help.

http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/lundmarkaren/2013-03-05170907.jpg

[*Furyou Miko]

Yes, because with 6th edition, you only need to cover 25% of the model, not 50%.

[dswanick]

"At least 25% of the facing of the vehicle that is being targeted needs to be hidden by intervening terrain or models from the point of view of the firer for the vehicle for the vehicle to be in cover.  If this is the case, the vehicle is obscured.  If a unit is firing at a vehicle, the vehicle is obscured only if it is 25% hidden from the majority of the firing models that are able to damage the vehicle.", BRB, pg.74

In your example picture the Sentinel is not 25% hidden by the Terminator (in my opinion), therefore - no cover save.  If 1 full leg and maybe a portion of the other or the pod were, then I would say yes to a cover save.

 

The red highlights the portion of the Sentinel that is obscured.  I don't believe it represents 25% of the model :

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l634/dswanick/Obscuredsentinel_zps9b6ac2b5.png

[Armfelt]

Thanks for the prompt replies and the great educational explanation.
Now I will go back to the planning. ^^

[Panzerbjørn]

Given how much of the model is above the termie, it doesn't look like it's 25%.

 

It will also depend on the level of the model firing, angle and other such considerations.

 

To be able to tell from a picture, you'd probably be better off putting the termie in front of the Sentinel, and then take the picture from a distance. That should make it easier to see...

[Armfelt]

Here are a few other examples. With the high body of the sentinel, I guess it will be a little bit tricky to cover multiple angles.

http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/lundmarkaren/2013-03-05181826.jpg

[dswanick]

I'd say no to picture #1 and yes to pictures #2 & #3.

[Axagoras]

Um it gets a 5+ just from having a unit in front of it right? Or did I read that wrong. Because it says that firing through intervening models is a 5+ (which means a guant can give a bio titan a 5+ cover [ignoring its 3++ for this example :P])

[dswanick]

Um it gets a 5+ just from having a unit in front of it right? Or did I read that wrong. Because it says that firing through intervening models is a 5+ (which means a guant can give a bio titan a 5+ cover [ignoring its 3++ for this example ])

A Gaunt Brood can give a Bio-titan a cover save because it's not a vehicle. A vehicle must be 25% hidden to get a cover save. Just another example of how GW is biased against vehicles in favor of models with Wounds. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272274-gk-brother-captains-final-strike

[Axagoras]

I know that, but are you sure here, if you fire through another unit it gives the unit a cover save. Does being a vehicle overrule it?

[dswanick]

I know that, but are you sure here, if you fire through another unit it gives the unit a cover save. Does being a vehicle overrule it?

"Vehicles do not benefit from cover in the same way as Infantry - their sheer size and bulk mean they cannot take advantage of cover as well as smaller, more agile troops.

...

The difference from the way cover works for other models is represented by the following exceptions to the normal rules for cover:

• At least 25% of the facing of the vehicle that is being targeted needs to be hidden by intervening terrain or models from the point of view of the firer for the vehicle to be in cover.", BRB, pg.74

From this, most people conclude that a vehicle model must actually be 25% hidden.  Simply shooting through area terrain or intervening units does not grant a cover save.

 

[Morollan]

Looking at the pics it seems that basically if the terminator is in the way of the Sentinel's leg then cover would apply but if it isn't then not enough of the Sentinel is obscured to gain the 5+ cover. Personally, I think I'd just let my opponent have the 5+ in every case as I couldn't be bothered to look at each firing model individually to see if a leg is hidden!

[Boniface]

I think I'd personally allow a cover save for the intervening models in this case. The terminator is seen to occupy the whole base and models aren't meant to be static therefore I think shooting through the gaps in a unit counts as shooting through the intervening models.

Ignoring the 'bulk' which is mostly at the top of the sentinel. It's covered 50% of its height.

[Dam13n]

Just a point of note, but infantry won't necessarily get a save if you are shooting through area terrain. They get one if they are visibly obscured by it or in it, they don't if the shot just passes over/through it with no obscuring of the target.

 

One if the many changes of 6th edition.