Iron Sage Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I agree. He brings so much to the table in versatillity. A bloodthirster is still good, but a LoC gives you more in terms of oppurtunities to alter the flow of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitadelArmyGuy Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 So a LoC could forgo taking any Greater rewards to take an Exalted, then trade for the Grimoire. Then he can use the Grimoire on any unit with Daemon special rule to improve their Invuln save by 2, if he rolls a 3+ (roll 1or2 and their Invuln decreases by 1). So you could acheive Oblits, Mutis or WarpTalons with a 3++. Mark them Tzeentch ahead of time.... 2++ Warp Talons or 2++ Oblits. Warp Talons with Prescience and 2++. I mean it is still polishing a turd.....but it sounds....powerful. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Yeah Greater Rewards are the best value overall. LoC has some strong merit but it's hard not to appreciate the raw stats of the thirster. That said, I think Skar might be worth building an army around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 So a LoC could forgo taking any Greater rewards to take an Exalted, then trade for the Grimoire. Then he can use the Grimoire on any unit with Daemon special rule to improve their Invuln save by 2, if he rolls a 3+ (roll 1or2 and their Invuln decreases by 1). So you could acheive Oblits, Mutis or WarpTalons with a 3++. Mark them Tzeentch ahead of time.... 2++ Warp Talons or 2++ Oblits. Warp Talons with Prescience and 2++. I mean it is still polishing a turd.....but it sounds....powerful. Thoughts? Just thought about this myself. +2 invul warp talons and +2 invul possessed doesnt really sound so bad at all. Actually, possessed with +2 invul sounds rather good to me, as I then would hardly care about their lack of assault grenades. Edit: Such a bloody good "lol" that. Big Possessed unit with MoT and Bird carrying Grimoire of True Names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 What about Tzeentch Terminators? Also, another way for a LOC to help in anti flier, is to make a Dakka Drake more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 It would have to have the Daemon special rule and terminators don't have said rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Ah, that's annoying, almost like they went out of there way to stop any synergy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Hrm. potential 2++ saves, with power armor to fall back on if you flub the roll one round... Seems pretty decent to me. The troop tax on your ally slot hurts, though, what with the lord of change taking the place of whatever herald you might otherwise have used. Still.... The deliberate lack of synergy - preventing characers from joining each others units and so on - is annoying, but there may be one or two gems in there. A lord of change with divination and the book seems like a pretty effective support option, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 To be honest, I may just use the horrors as a back feild objective holder whilst my Thousand sons take objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Thousand sons? Lets not get carried away, here. You can only try to polish so many turds at one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 turds with warpflames? that what you get when you go all out on that mexican food :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Whoops, bonus from MoT maxes out at 3++, so no 2++ save possessed or warp talons, although you could get 2++ oblits or a 2++ daemon engine or whatever via a landing pad. Which means there's no reason to go tzeentch on a possessed or talon unit you mean to buff with the book, which then has them reverting to slaanesh as probably the best mark for the combo. Still, even at init 5, 3++ probably isn't good enough to make warp talons or possessed worth bothering with, not with all the costs and resources you have to sink into making it work. Oh, well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Whoops, bonus from MoT maxes out at 3++, so no 2++ save possessed or warp talons, although you could get 2++ oblits or a 2++ daemon engine or whatever via a landing pad. Which means there's no reason to go tzeentch on a possessed or talon unit you mean to buff with the book, which then has them reverting to slaanesh as probably the best mark for the combo. Still, even at init 5, 3++ probably isn't good enough to make warp talons or possessed worth bothering with, not with all the costs and resources you have to sink into making it work. Oh, well. Agreed. There went my "wait, this isn\t bad AT ALL" rambling thoughts out of the window. IMO, without +2 (I know it sounds bizarre that a unit needs +2 to be good, but its true with THIS particular unit), warp talons will...not be good enough even with +3 invul. *Sighs* Never noticed that "caps at +3" before :( Is it even in the codex? I dont have it on my computer, but I trust your right. Ugh, ugh, ugh. Oh, yeah. Was a bit too good to be true I guess. Possessed might still be worth it. Warp talons? Nah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Yup, right in the book. Page 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Damn, missed that. Hehe, my Possessed would still be pretty insane with a 3+/3++ and FnP (thanks to MoS and their Icon). Would be fun to send against grey knights, even if they have preferred enemy. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Add it to the book of grudges, I swear us Tzeentch players are becoming more and more like dwarfs... I mean seriously? Kelly seems to have gone out of his way to nerf Tzeentch more then even GW's usual hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Add it to the book of grudges, I swear us Tzeentch players are becoming more and more like dwarfs... I mean seriously? Kelly seems to have gone out of his way to nerf Tzeentch more then even GW's usual hatred. Especially considering that there is almost no rolls on either the Lesser or Greater table that is of any use to a Horror champ or Herald. Also, incredibly annoying, the Horror Herald has got a BS of 4 (and the Horror champ only 3!), whilst all the other Heralds and lesser daemons have a much much higher BS, meaning the few rewards that are good for a Tzeentch Herald/champ are still much better for the other Heralds/champs. Why the hate for Tzeentch daemons GW? Still, the LoC seems to be maybe the best GD for the points, so that's something. Also, the Daemon of Tzeentch seems like a given for Daemon Princes, with some biomancy powers to top him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Wait, Tzeentch character - that is, the Daemonic ranged units - have worse BS than the other gods' characters, who are all melee types? What the hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Add it to the book of grudges, I swear us Tzeentch players are becoming more and more like dwarfs... I mean seriously? Kelly seems to have gone out of his way to nerf Tzeentch more then even GW's usual hatred. Especially considering that there is almost no rolls on either the Lesser or Greater table that is of any use to a Horror champ or Herald. Also, incredibly annoying, the Horror Herald has got a BS of 4 (and the Horror champ only 3!), whilst all the other Heralds and lesser daemons have a much much higher BS, meaning the few rewards that are good for a Tzeentch Herald/champ are still much better for the other Heralds/champs. Why the hate for Tzeentch daemons GW? Still, the LoC seems to be maybe the best GD for the points, so that's something. Also, the Daemon of Tzeentch seems like a given for Daemon Princes, with some biomancy powers to top him off. Wait, Tzeentch has the worst BS of the daemons, even though well, shooting and spells has always been Tzeentch's stick? Can we please send someone to the next Games day or something to ask Kelly what the hell? Also, do you have to take a troops unit for an allied contingent, or could I just take a LOC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Add it to the book of grudges, I swear us Tzeentch players are becoming more and more like dwarfs... I mean seriously? Kelly seems to have gone out of his way to nerf Tzeentch more then even GW's usual hatred. Especially considering that there is almost no rolls on either the Lesser or Greater table that is of any use to a Horror champ or Herald. Also, incredibly annoying, the Horror Herald has got a BS of 4 (and the Horror champ only 3!), whilst all the other Heralds and lesser daemons have a much much higher BS, meaning the few rewards that are good for a Tzeentch Herald/champ are still much better for the other Heralds/champs. Why the hate for Tzeentch daemons GW? Still, the LoC seems to be maybe the best GD for the points, so that's something. Also, the Daemon of Tzeentch seems like a given for Daemon Princes, with some biomancy powers to top him off. Wait, Tzeentch has the worst BS of the daemons, even though well, shooting and spells has always been Tzeentch's stick? Can we please send someone to the next Games day or something to ask Kelly what the hell? Also, do you have to take a troops unit for an allied contingent, or could I just take a LOC? Bring heavy chains, amphetamine and a van with a bolted fast chair in. He needs to be questioned for some times indeed, for this Tzeentchian heresy. Seriously though. I dont usually complain, but...even though Tzeentch has good greater and Princes, Mono Tzeentch does indeed seem far weaker than other Mono builds, and yes, this irks me. They seriously could have allowed us at the very least that Daemon trick regarding the Grimoire on Tzeentch marked units. Annoying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I'll definitely still take 3++ units, even if we can't get 2++. Might even tempt me to make some Warp Talons some day... Ridcully, you always need at least one troop and one HQ in an allied detachment if you are taking an allied detachment. With an LoC though, we wouldn't have to take horrors though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 3++ doesn't help the main problem with talons, though - that they cost like terminators, but die like basic chaos marines to small arms fire and regular attacks in close combat, while going last thanks to no grenades, and being basically terrible at fighting anything other than Meq. How many resources are you willing to sink into making a not very good unit not very much better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 For fun? Lots of resources. Don't get me wrong they wouldn't be for competitive use but as a fun unit they just got a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 But I have the cool old metal Horror models! How are furies with Mark of tzeentch (Sure I heard they can take marks now)? I'm guessing the wings they have makes them jump infantry, which could be helpfull. And Chech rum shall be used, I wouldn't really wish it on anyone, but, hey in the name of Chaos nad all that Jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I'm not sure which mark is best for furies. Slaanesh for rending? Khorne, to help with their pitiful number of attacks? Nurgle, to help them survive the trip to combat? The answer, of course, is none of the above, because each of the alignments has a better fast attack choice available, whether it be seekers, hounds, screamers, or drones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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