WG Capt. Iagn Thunderclaw Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Can Screamers get the +1 Attack for charging using Lamprey's Bite at S5 AP2? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
The thousand son Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 It´s not 100% clear.You´re supposed to exchange all of your normal attacks. Is "normal attacks" the ones on your profile? Is it all attacks?I would say they do not get a bonus attack. I read it as all the attacks they would be using if they don´t bite. It boils down to if "normal" is "everything but lamprey´s bite" or their "profile attacks". The more i read the rule, the more certain I am that "normal" is directed to "not lamprey´s"... (since that is a very special attack) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3321555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Capt. Iagn Thunderclaw Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 it is certainly not clear. If the normal profile attacks are 3 S4 Attacks at INI and you exchange all of those profile attacks for lamprey's bite does the lampreys bite then benefit from the +1 attack on the charge only? After all if the "profile" attack is those listed on the profile only...then the +1 attack for charging is "super normal" or "suplemental" or "bonus" If the +1 attack is a bonus then it is NOT normal and should be applied in a special circumstance such as the first round of a charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3321573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Goderic Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I would argue that "normal" indicates the A/attack profile characteristic, but agreed that it is unclear. This will make a difference as to whether or not I try to fit screamers into my allies list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3321879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Be safe, and play it as though you don't get the bonus attack. To me it's perfectly clear, but it's best not to take risks with others. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3321954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 "substitute all of its normal close combat attacks for a single special attack " So why would the extra attack from a charge NOT be normal? normally, the number of attacks is (brb, p. 24): "Each engaged model makes a number of Attacks (A) as indicated on its characteristics profile, plus the following bonus attacks: +1 charge bonus [...]" also, single +1 isn't single anymore ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3321962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Capt. Iagn Thunderclaw Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 I would argue that pg 24 BRB "lists normal attacks listed on profile" then goes on to describe "bonus attacks" Codex Daemons pg 48 specifically denies the "bonus" attack for the Beasts of Nurgle making all charges against "disordered charges" Since the BRB on page 24 is specific regarding "profile" attacks then goes on to list "bonus" attacks and does not clarify that screamers suffer from a disordered charge when using lampries bite then the bonus attack is stacked for lampries bite as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3322430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I would argue that pg 24 BRB "lists normal attacks listed on profile" then goes on to describe "bonus attacks" I think you may have (unintentionally) forged your quote a little here. nowhere on this page does it say "normal attacks listed on profile". It just states that (generally/normally) the number of attacks a model gets is composed of (A) profile plus charge bonus + 2 weapons + other bonuses. C:CD p.48 is a picture of a bloodletter in my book. if you mean the slime trail rule from p.73, that only refers to disordered charges on brb p.27, which denies "the +1 charge bonus to its number of Attacks usually gained from a charge" (so the bonus is called "usual", i.e. normal). The argument is based on the assumption that "bonus" attacks are not "normal", which would be difficult to prove. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3322660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Capt. Iagn Thunderclaw Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Well i took Jervis Johnson's method for resolving rules issues which appear vague, I diced it. 1-3 on a D6 Lampreys Bite does NOT get the +1 Attack for Charging 4-6 on a D6 Lampreys Bite DOES get the +1 Attack for Charging. No Taksies Backsies!!!!! ITS A 5!!!!!! So in accordance with the Great and Powerful Oz, I mean Jervis Johnson the matter has been settled!!! From this moment forever "or until a FAQ is posted", Lampreys Bite does get the +1 for Charging Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3322892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I disagree, and I'm correct on a 4+. *shakes dice* 6!!! No +1 from charging. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 ugh. I think all your miniatures and girlfriends belong to me on a 4+ and rolled a 6. please pack them safely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Think of Lamprey's Bite as a "set value" multiplier - that is, you apply it after the +1 attack for charging (or any other bonuses/penalties you might be affected by - see RB p3). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 ugh. I think all your miniatures and girlfriends belong to me on a 4+ and rolled a 6. please pack them safely. You want my wife? Deal! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoSmug_zps4b0b1a74.png Just as planned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggnuggath Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Will they still get Hammer of Wrath if they use Lamprey Bite? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I'd say charge attacks are part of a model's 'normal' compliment of attacks, but HoW are not, so IMO they'd still get HoW when using the bite. Not really basing that on anything, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 RAW, HoW is just "one additional Attack", so I'm afraid "all of its normal close combat attacks" covers that one as well. If I'd had to guess, this may be adressed in a future FAQ, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggnuggath Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think this kind of makes screamers into guys that swoop over things and sometimes assault tanks. I guess you can still send them at terminators if 'all else fails', seems a bit wasteful though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think this kind of makes screamers into guys that swoop over things and sometimes assault tanks. I guess you can still send them at terminators if 'all else fails', seems a bit wasteful though. 3+ screamers (pick a number) + Herald on disc = Hardly useless ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 math says 6 screamers kill a terminator. if he's got a storm shield, you are actually better off NOT using lamprey's bite (0,2 TEQ kills/screamer = almost double than lamprey). every 3 Terminators kill 2 screamers back, after overwatch. propably will cost the termies 1 round of shooting max (If you're lucky and combat carries on into his turn). 3+ screamers (pick a number) + Herald on disc = Hardly useless why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 math says 6 screamers kill a terminator. if he's got a storm shield, you are actually better off NOT using lamprey's bite (0,25 TEQ kills/screamer). every 3 Terminators kill 2 screamers back, after overwatch. propably will cost the termies 1 round of shooting max (If you're lucky and combat carries on into his turn). Meh, IMO they are still decently priced for what they do, just not "op". Multi purpose jetbike unit. IMO its still a very decent unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 yeah, they're pretty worthless against terminators. And at S5, even with armorbane, they're not particularly great at hunting heavy armor, either. Like flamers, screamers were basically nerfed into the ground. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 and horrors, and all the tzeentch special characters ;) i notice a trend... guess the AV10 chariots have to compensate lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Understand the grief concerning flamers very well, but Screamers still seem a good unit to me... very fast and versatile, balanced and well costed. Dont understand how someone can say they have been "nerfed into the ground" at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Because they used to have meltabombs and be one of the few things able to kill terminators reliably. Now they have neither. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272357-lampreys-bite-on-the-charge/#findComment-3323611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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