Which HQ is the best/worst?

[Boniface]

Just a general discussion. My opinion is:

Best Librarian for cost/Sammael because of bikes and other rules.

Worst chaplain, seriously what's the point? Should have been an upgrade character for units.

[Brother Immolator]

Ichap is golden when accompanying deathwing knights IMHO. Much better than a libby.

The Libby is the best all rounder in the codex with the company master been the worst choice IMHO.

[Rikera]

Pretty decent all round HQ choices to be fair, nothing really broken.

 

I agree with brother immolator that the company master is the weakest (i love the DV set model and using it for azrael). Libby is great for lower end point games or progression campaigns.

[mmaarrkk]

Company master, he cannot take a bike and doesnt really offer the buffs the libby and chappie do, let alone the named characters

[Rizara]

Company master is probably the weakest as his only benefit is a high as non special character. If he would simply give the commanders some sort of commanding boost or unit buff they are suppose to be commanding troops but give no support to other units just a small combat bonus that can be gained elsewhere it the army. After all they are only 20 points between them and an interogator chaplain but the chaplain comes with a free power weapon and unit buff as a trade off for one point of weapon skill. Not to mention this power weapon also gives them a plus two strength. Librarians are cheap and beneficial but they are not designed to be heavy hitters. Overall this makes the interrogator chaplain the strongest all around non special character in the army because they can hit hard and provide a unit a boost. Librarians are specifically support units and can't fully be relied on to swing combat but boost and support the army. That being said if your not taking a special character at all, then I suggest taking either two librarians or one librarian and one interrogated chaplain. Both of these can be on foot, in TDA, given jumppacksd, or be mounted on bikes so can easily fit into any specific army build.

 

As for special hq's go I would say areal is great for a multiwing but needs a support unit with mobility. He is probably the best all around also because he has rites of battle, provided his unit with protection can hit hard in melee, has one round of awesome shooting, and can pick his warlord trait so you can tailor him to your opponent, battle and terrain a little.

[Isiah]

Best:

Belial

Librarian (Level 2) in Termy armour

 

Worst:

Sammy in speeder

[Sidguard]

I would argue Asmodai is pretty meh. He's basically an Ichap with fear/ID, 30 points more, but his meh WS5 and lack of armor pen means he can't use it that well, and a lot of stuff isn't affected by fear.

Really cool character though.

[elphilo]

Best:

Belial

Librarian (Level 2) in Termy armour

 

Worst:

Sammy in speeder

Agreed. That Librarian is so versatile its crazy!

[Interrogator Stobz]

Asmodai and LS Sammy do compete quite hard for 'Most waste of space' in the special character department race.

 

The basic Chaplain and basic Master are very close in their own race to the bottom (I think the Master might win as he gives no buffs):P

 

Best IC is more subjective depending on what type of army you wish to run.

I like Belial too, with Azrael and Jetbike Sammy coming in closely afterward.

 

s

[Boniface]

I rate it as follows. Most to least useful my scale of all options buffs costs etc.

1. Librarian

2. Azrael

3. Belial/Sammael (jetbike)

4. Int chap

5. Tech

6. Ezekiel

7. Chaplain

8. Azmodai

9. Sammael (speeder)

10. Master

 

Pity I love the idea of fielding masters and being able to customise.

I put sam and bel together as i think they're about the same in lots of ways.

[pueriexdeus]

I played Sammi a couple weeks ago against Nids and Orks. In CC against T5 Orks on bikes. He was pathetic, out of five attacks on the charge only placed one wound on the Orks.  S4 MC power weapons are not all that against High T oponents.

 

I am sure that Zeke and Belial will have the same issues against T5 or higher enemies. .

[Interrogator Stobz]

P; Belial has Fleshbane, wounds everything on 2+. AWESOME!!!

I still rate Sammy, as his primary role (for me) is to move to the enemy back field and shoot things with his PC and then attack soft things up in buildings that bikes can't reach. Leave the tough critters to high strength shooting, Typhoon or similar

s

[march10k]

Best?  Belial, Azzy, and Zeke, in that order.

 

Generic interrogators and L2 libbies are okay, I'd take either one with a smile on my face in a "no named characters" setting.  And in low point games, a bike-interrogator with the mace is a stupidly awesome beatstick that satisfies your "usually a waste of points in small games" HQ requirement.

 

Worst?  Sammy's speeder, and company masters. 

[Syphid]

Master does seem kinda pointless, unless you really want a Perfidious Relic in a non-Deathwing Knight unit.  At higher points levels perhaps a Master could be useful as a bodyguard for Ezekiel, benefiting from WS7 and boosting Ezekiel's DTW.

[Slavik]

Best: Belial. No scatter deep strike. Mastercrafted fleshbane sword. Makes terminators troops.  He does it all.

[march10k]

The sword of silence is pretty sweet...

[Brother Immolator]

Why the hate for sammies speeder? Its an av14 vehicle spotting a lot of twin linked dakka. That alone does more dammage than the plasma cannon and there is no chance of 1s been catastrophic. And dont tell me it has few hullpoints, penetrate the inv save theb AV14 and then we are talking about it.

It has worked better than my dakka preds lately...

[Rizara]

I personally like the idea of the av 14 speeder, and even thought about taking it over the jetbike, which to me just seems to clutteres model wise and so not easy to convert up for a successor chapter.   That being said, if I could figure out how to make the speeder actually look like AV 14 that would be even better.   However, character wise, the speeder variant doesn't really provide much but extra shooting.  The speeder can't be attached to any unit, doesnt provide any close combat punch.   Most characters for an army are suppose to be generals, generals provide more than just the vehicle they ride in, they provide leadership and support, and taking the speeder is more of a selfish leader than an army leader.  

 

That is probably why the speeder is on the bottom of everyones list.  Almost the same way that in a space wolves army, taking the character dread is a great option, but not everyones first choice.  The speeder is a good choice, a vehicle for an hq that is survivable, does dmg, but offers no other real benefit to the army other than making ravenwing troops. 

[facmanpob]

I played Sammi a couple weeks ago against Nids and Orks. In CC against T5 Orks on bikes. He was pathetic, out of five attacks on the charge only placed one wound on the Orks. S4 MC power weapons are not all that against High T oponents.

I am sure that Zeke and Belial will have the same issues against T5 or higher enemies. .

This is why the Ravenwing Grenade Launcher was invented.......

I think it helps to view HQ options as part of a wider army list and how they synergise with other units. The I-C with Mace of Redemption, sending in 5 S7 attacks and getting re-rolls due to Zealot can operate alone in CC..... I don't think Sammael can.

Sammael in his land speeder has no leadership value and thus can't be your warlord. Necessitating another HQ choice on top of the ~200pts Ravenwing Master is, in my opinion, another strike against that option.

Really!?! Have I missed something in the BGB? cos I never new your warlord had to have a Leadership value......

Of all the days not to have my Dark Vengeance pocket rulebook with me!

Not that I was ever going to run Sammy in the speeder though, as I prefer the jetbike

My vote for worst HQ is the Chaplain......not because he is intrinsically bad, because he isn't, but because the Interrogator Chaplain is so much better for such a small points increase that I can't see a reason for ever taking the normal Chaplain. I also think Asmodai is a wasted opportunity, as for the same points I can get an Interrogator Chaplain with the Mace of Redemption.

[Boniface]

So i think it's settled. Sammael in sableclaw is the worst. Lol. But not Sammael on corvex he's pretty good i my opinion.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Sammies Speeder doesn't suck because of his guns, he doesn't suck because of his F&S AV14, he doesn't suck because of his Warlord status(or lack), he sucks because vehicles with Rear AV10 get owned in CC in 6th. Get him close enough to use his guns and next turn he is dead meat.

 

Just my opinion :P

[Interrogator Stobz]

As you know only the Heavy bolter is 36", I can get one of those for much cheaper than 200points somewhere else, 24" on an AC is a different matter, unless your opponent is incompetant and unable to play a non linear game that distance will get eaten up in no time and he will die.

This thread is about judging suckiness; I'm just pointing out some obvious flaws in LS Sammy now 6th hates vehicles :P

[Interrogator Stobz]

I stopped playing RW heavy armies a while ago because I kept getting outmanourvered by Oblit/Termie/CSM in Rhino balanced armies (damned pain in the butt), BA/Tau/Eldar have even less problem shutting us down.

Without using the speed that you pay for of RW (granted I'm talking about 5th Ed) you struggle. I generally play against very good players and negating half the table by owning the middle with rock hard units that threaten glass cannons like RW on turns 1-2 and moving sideways to trap mobile armies is easy as pie on 4'x8' tables.

Getting into CC with LS Sam, or negating his firepower by forcing flat-outs is very easy with an average mobility balanced army, by forcing a lateral battle you also make the RW army expose side and rear armour of any supporting units more, throw in some DS units like Melta(Plas)Vets/Oblits/Melta BAS/whatever xenos equivalent and you can break them no problem.

Talking tactics on the inteweb is a bit naff, but imho against a good opponent who is used to facing RW heavy lists LS Sammy will struggle because he needs to maintain 18+ inches of safekeeping and still face in a useful direction or risk bumshots.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love RW and can't wait to attack some more heretics/xenos scum in the next two weeks or so, but attaching a warlord to a costly squad is worth it, it's called synergy. The other costly squad doesn't do nothing but protect after all ;)

 

Seems a good arguement for mixed/dual wing :P Just like I have been playing ;)

 

2 more cents worth,

 

I'm happy to just disagree though; personal experience is relative to local gaming groups and armies faced not interveb advice.

 

stobz

[march10k]

Immolator,

 

You win...Page 28 obviously trumps everything else GW says everywhere else that would lead us to conclude that he can't be your warlord when mounted on his speeder.  Explicit statements trump obvious conclusions all day long, and twice on Sunday.

 

Facmanpob,

 

Great.  So the BGB contradicts itself.  What's new?  You would choose to believe that "even if he is a vehicle" trumps "your warlord is a character, not a vehicle," and I the opposite.  It could well be read that your quote allows for "unit type: character vehicle."  Page 28 obviously settles the issue!

[Rikera]

For a 1000pt Multiwing (greenwing mainly) would libby be the "strongest" choice? Haven't written any lists with the new DA codex (only read through it briefly atm) but got a 1000pt game coming up. Was thinking libby (possibly upgraded powers)?