Kings of CC?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Hello all,

I am a Space Wolves player, and while I do enjoy playing the Space Wolves I am interested in trying something new. Initially I thought Space Wolves were a bad ass close combat chapter... Although they are really fun to use they are not as aggressive as I thought they were by nature.

This, leads me to the Blood Angels, whom are well known for being great CC BAMF's. Are there any other Chapters (Chaos legions included) That compare to the blood angels?

[Erasmus of Baal]

Close-combat is strong for the Blood Angels, but that's not what we're really good at. We specialize in fast movement (Jump Packs and Fast Vehicles), so of course a degree of CC strength comes with that, but not as much as, methinks, the Black Templars or the Grey Knights.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention that some of our shooting elements, especially the Vindicator and Baal Predator, benefit greatly from being fast. Also, we do get a close-combat Dreadnought, for what that's worth.

[tomjoad]

The kings of CC are...I don't know. Eldar? Berserkers? Some deamon? Certainly not Blood Angels though. There are very few units we can take that are legit good at hacking and stabbing. Death Company are good, but they have all kinds of other issues that make them a problematic choice, at best.

 

Honestly, between counter attack and having tacs with bolter, bolt pistol and CCW, (not to mention banners and Mark of the Wulfen) I'd say Space Wolves are far more formidable in CC.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Maybe I should rephrase. Space Wolves are very good, they just are not superior on the assault. They are good at thinning out with bolter fire and whatever other heat they are packing then if they assault or are assaulted.. fair equally well do to counter attack. Just straight up get in your face and hit you.. I feel they lack a little bit.

[tomjoad]

What I'm saying is that, until a few years down the road and we get a new codex, this is not the right army for dedicated close combat. Maybe you can house rule DC jump packs only being 7-10 points apiece instead of 15? That would help BAs tremendously.

[John Rainbow]

Blood Angels are not great in assault in 6th. They might be better than vanilla marines but I think Space Wolves still do it better (counter attack and banner GH units are still really good) for the marines. In general assault isn't usually where you want to be with BA in 6th. You need to use the mobility of the list to your advantage more than anything else

 

As for who are the combat kings of the current meta? Dark Eldar beast packs maul pretty much anything they hit in CC. The Dark Harliestar is also pretty beat stick, as are certain Nids (looks at Swarmlord).

[CitadelArmyGuy]

The following are better in melee than Blood Angel Assault Marines (off the top of my head): All Grey Knights, Chaos Bikers (any Mark), Tyranid Monsters, Greater Daemons, Thunderwolf Cavalry led by Thunderwolf Lord

 

I guarantee there are more... just no time to formulate the exhaustive list

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Well thanks for the feed back. I want to stick with the Space Marine Chapters (Chaos Legions included) so I'm not really concerned with other Races.

[IK Viper]

Blood Angel's CC advantage comes from Furious Charge just like the Space Wolf advantage comes from being cheaper/better and equipped, but also from the Counter Attack USR.  Counter Attack is still as good as it ever was, better in fact with the addition of overwatch, why charge when they can charge you and you get to over watch, while Furious Charge no longer gives +1 In.  and there for is half as good as it used to be at best.  Thus what originally was a very good CC Army (BA) is now only a little better then C:SM equivilants in CC

[knife&fork]

How serious do you want the army to be? The real issue Death company have is only being able to take one unit (plus dreads), an all DC army or majority DC army would certainly be good in assault and play differently. YOu'll have some issues with scoring primary VPs though and have to buy a sub par HQ to unlock them.

 

Blood angels also do drop pod list very good, possibly the best there is. Using allies however makes it even better as our troops outside of DC are lacking. DA and SW compliment BA drop lists nicely and using SW allies would allow you to start out slow. You could even start with the BA as your allies though I think BA makes for a better main detachment on behalf of the frag cannon furioso dreadnought. It's incredibly well suited for pod lists as they can deal with anything and will punish the opponent for castling.