Daemons Q's

[Seahawk]

Just a couple of clarifications, really.

 

 

1. Warpflame says:

 

"If the test is pass, all models in that unit gain the Feel No Pain (6+) special rule for the rest of the game. Any models in the unit that already have the Feel No Pain special rule instead gain +1 to all Feel No Pain rolls for the rest of the game."

 

Well, what happens if a unit has FNP already, but it's only temporary? For instance, being joined by a Herald of Nurgle that gives them FNP but the Herald dies and FNP goes away. Would it:

 

A ) revert to giving them FNP 6+? or

B ) would they keep the +1 to FNP rolls despite not having FNP anymore? or

C ) lose everything completely?

 

I think it's B, but always love more opinions.

 

 

 

2. Jet Pack Cavalry. Woo, new unit type stuff! Does this mean they move 12" (as per cav) and ignore DT and such? 

 

 

 

 

3. Soporific Musk: "All models...suffer a -5 penalty to their Initiative until the end of that Assault Phase."

 

This will frequently take a model's initiative to 0. However, in the rules for Initiative Steps, it says "This means that each combat will have ten Initiative steps, starting at 10 and working down to 1." Does this mean that models with Initiative 0 don't attack because they don't have an Initiative Step?

 

I say they don't get to attack because they are so slow they are outside the range of possible times to do so. If you disagree, then why?

 

 

 

4. Multiple Warp Storms. What happens when you have two Daemon primaries on the same team? Three? Does each player roll for Warp Storm?

 

I say yes, because it says "If your primary detachment is chosen from this codex, roll 2D6 at the start of each of your Shooting phases." If you disagree, then why?

[Raeven]

1.  The model doesn't start with FnP.  It is granted by the herald.  I would say, +1 while the herald lives, but 6+ when the herald dies, unless the other models in the unit also had FnP as part of their profile.

 

2.  Both Cavalry and Jet Packs treat difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.  I would say you get to choose the movement type, like Jump Infantry.

 

3.  Yep.  Fits the rules.

 

4.  Not sure what you mean?  Team games?  Daemons vs Daemons? 

[Seahawk]

1. I don't like that it can change between things, as it's not covered by the rules in any example.

 

 

 

4. Team games, say a 2v2 or 3v3 (or heck, an APOCALYPSE game) where there are multiple Daemon players on the same side.

[Raeven]

1. Then only models with FnP get the +1 and the rest get 6+. So if they benefit from FnP from another models rule, no change.

 

4. In that case, yes.

[Raeven]

1. Is there a difference between having the special rule and being granted the special rule?

[wheelballer]

3. I could be wrong, but I thought characteristics could not be reduced below 1? I would play it so that anything the musk affects are at the very least initiative 1.

[Raeven]

They cannot be reduced below zero. But, there is nothing about the effect of initiative at zero. Only attacks at zero.

[Seahawk]

Characteristics can go to 0, they just can't get any lower.

 

WS0 = auto hit in CC, cannot attack

BS0 = cannot fire a ranged weapon

S/T/W 0 = dead

A0 = no attacks

Sv "-" = no save

Ld0 = dead (Doomstone)

I0 = no attacks (Soporific Musk)

 

RAW, this is what happens.

[Raeven]

I don't know.  Initiative 0 isn't addressed anywhere.  You could argue that it means you go after Init 1 or you could argue that it means you don't attack at all.  Until GW says so, either answer is conjecture.

[Gentlemanloser]

If Initiative can be reduced to Zer, then I'm siding with inability to attack.

 

You can only attack (and pile in) at the Initative Step equal to your Initiative.

 

As the Steps are defined from 10 to 1, if your Initiative is zero, there's no step for you to attack (or pile in) on.

 

Therefore, you can't.

[Morollan]

The thing is, Initiative is not among the stats that are listed as having an effect when they reach zero.

 

 

ZERO LEVEL CHARACTERISTICS
Some creatures have been given a 0 for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that field (the same is also occasionally represented by '-'). A model with Weapon Skill '0' is incapacitated; they are hit automatically in close combat and cannot strike any blows. A model with no Attacks cannot strike any blows in close combat. A warrior with an Armour Save of '-'has no affnour save at all. If at any point, a model's Strength, Toughness or Wounds are reduced to 0, it is removed from play as a casualty.

 

No mention of what happens at I zero. Personally I'd just say they attack last but there's no real ruling either way.

[Gentlemanloser]

Doesn't need to be there, it's part of the Assault Rules.

 

You count down Steps form 10 to 1, and if your initative equals the step you act.

 

As there's no step zero, minis with zero Initiative can't act, as they don't have a step to act in.

[Morollan]

Doesn't need to be there, it's part of the Assault Rules.

 

You count down Steps form 10 to 1, and if your initative equals the step you act.

 

As there's no step zero, minis with zero Initiative can't act, as they don't have a step to act in.

 

I see what you mean, although I can't help feeling that's an inadvertant omission by GW rather than a deliberate rule. Could probably benefit from a FAQ.

[Gentlemanloser]

Oh indeed.

 

The power should probably be Errata'ed to reduce to a minimum of 1.

 

But I bet they go the lazy route and just FAQ that I0 == can't act.

[Seahawk]

Exactly my thinking. I think it's a counter rule for not having grenades and it still allows them to charge into cover, since they'll be I1 and their enemies I0, but we'll see.

[Fibonacci]

 

 

3. Soporific Musk: "All models...suffer a -5 penalty to their Initiative until the end of that Assault Phase."

 

This will frequently take a model's initiative to 0. However, in the rules for Initiative Steps, it says "This means that each combat will have ten Initiative steps, starting at 10 and working down to 1." Does this mean that models with Initiative 0 don't attack because they don't have an Initiative Step?

 

I say they don't get to attack because they are so slow they are outside the range of possible times to do so. If you disagree, then why?

Excuse me for dragging this back up but I had something poinyed out to me earlier.

 

The Initiative steps have been changed in the errata.

 

Page 22 -- Fight Sub-phase, Initiative Steps.

Change the blded text to read "Work your way through the Initiative values of the models in the combat, starting with the highest and ending with the lowest."

 

If 0 is the lowest then you go to zero, striking after unwieldy.

 

Which then also brings up an interesting point.  Initiative values are modified in the following order:  Multiplication, additions, set values.  So a sgt with a power fist affected by sporific musk would be I1.  Start I4, -5 for the musk makes it I-1 (which then becomes zero) and finally set to 1 because of unwieldy.  At least I think it happens that way.  It's all kind of weird.

[Grey Mage]

Id say:

 

1: It reverts to FNP 6+. Seems fair.

2: I honestly dont know offhand, but yes- anything that either type gets as a bonus, this has. Anything thats a drawback they have. Its to late for me to want to look it up at hte moment.

3:Iniative 0 so after powerfists- since as noted, you go to the lowest, unless I missed something.

4: 1 Roll per primary up to 1 per player seems right to me. So yeah, daemons vs daemons will be potentially a little silly. Im interested to see what they do for apocalypse.

[Gentlemanloser]

The Initiative steps have been changed in the errata.

 

Fib, it's not the bolded part on page 22 covered by the FAQ.

 

Just below that on page 22 is;

 

This means that each combat will have ten Initiative steps, starting at Initiative 10 and working down to Initiative 1.

 

Edit: This is also referenced on page 429.

[Seahawk]

Yep, on the unwieldy weapons. For some reason they can deflect the Slaaneshi bits and go slightly faster than their brethren. Silly, huh? ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

Which is one of the reasons I feel sure I will be FAQed to be a minimum of 1, and can't reach zero.