How to use azrael.

[Boniface]

This is my opinion of how best to use him. Feel free to disagree you may have had different experiences.

Azrael is a CC beast yes but look past that for a moment.

Azrael is a support character (albeit an expensive one) and should be treated as such.

It's about his warlord traits, rites of battle and 4++.

Don't rush to get him into close combat or anything of the sort. He is a general from the back(ish) as opposed to a front runner. This makes sense seeing as how important he is (fluff wise).

The best use I've had for him I to sit back with you tacticals etc and support them. He can gradually footslog forward. I know this is usually a big no no but with dark Angels is actually possible due to deathwing and ravenwing.

But using him correctly (in addition to others) can produce a unit that is hard to shift.

I think the best way to use azrael is actually to walk him up the board. It's not seen as immediately threatening so it can be temporarily overlooked but you will need the other units to cause distractions. Don't get me wrong running only him up the middle of the board will get him killed.

I think azzy is one of those odd characters who is much better for what he provides than as a fearsome close combat powerhouse or anything.

My best uses for him have been gun line general and gradual progression. I think having a landraider (except in big point games) makes him too costly you're talking 465 points straight off. Add a squad in and (depending on the unit) you're up 550-700. In some cases this is 50% of your army.

Just put him with regular tacticals and walk him there. Their armour combined with the 4++ will keep them alive for a while.

Like I said just my opinion. Maybe you'll have better/different tactics.

[Rizara]

In the one game I have gotten to play using dark angels, It was a 1000 point mixxed wing list.  Granted I lost, but because My option was either all deathwing at 1000 or a mixxed wing, i took Azrael, a tac squad, one deathwing squad, and a ravenwing squad with speeder and multilmelta.  Granted in hindsight my list was not legit, because I only had 5 in my ravenwing and had the landspeeder that I counted as a troop.   Eitherway I combat squaded the tac squad, and kept the half with the plasmacannon on a high point providing cover fire when available, and ran azrael with the other half.   The other squad was able to progress, and because azrael was in the unit, took some fire.  This made the other half of the combat squad able to move up with as much worry due to the invunerable save they now had.  

 

That being said, i lost due to being out numberd, and too much terrain.  in the direction I had to move, against dark eldar who were much more maneuverable.  It was still a fun game watching the guy try to take out my multimelta attack bike for 3 turns with dark lances, only getting 1 wound on him then in turn 4, actually taking it out.   I also was able to prevent his unit of hellions and special character from charging me due to shooting them and watching them fail the blind test from azraels combi plasma.   Best part of the game in fact, cause he kept going..I can't belive I got blinded, lol.  Priceless to see a large unit of 15 hellions and the special character, blinded and unwilling to charge a unit, due to being crippled for melee.   I tried to charge but failed the charge, was just shy by one inch. 

 

Anyways, its a good strategy, I still just find, he is still better suited drop poding in with a veteran squad or command squad, drop poding, firing away combit weapons and other shooting attacks the turn they arrive, and his 4++ save protecting the unit long enough to then get a charge off the next turn.   If you are taking azrael, that means you can afford to use an elite slot on veteran company marines, and still take deathwing as troops. 

[facmanpob]

In the one game I have gotten to play using dark angels, It was a 1000 point mixxed wing list.  Granted I lost, but because My option was either all deathwing at 1000 or a mixxed wing, i took Azrael, a tac squad, one deathwing squad, and a ravenwing squad with speeder and multilmelta.  Granted in hindsight my list was not legit, because I only had 5 in my ravenwing and had the landspeeder that I counted as a troop.  

To be honest I wouldn't worry about your list, because the Landspeeder isn't scoring even if it is bought as part of the RAS as a troop choice (BGB P123 - Scoring Units). So in your list above you could just count it as a Fast Attack choice and you wouldn't lose out in any way.

 

Regarding Azrael, I posted in the General Think Tank thread about my views on Azzy and mixed wing, but they boil down to this:

 

Azrael unlocks everything, so there is a tendency when taking Azrael to try to take everything as troops...... just because you can! This can have a knock on effect that it defocuses a list, leading to an army with little or no synergy on the battlefield. It is better to design a list to take advantage of some of Azrael's special rules (such as army wide Ld10 or 4++ save to his unit) than try to shoehorn everything into one list. :)

[Master Avoghai]

 

Don't rush to get him into close combat or anything of the sort. He is a general from the back(ish) as opposed to a front runner. This makes sense seeing as how important he is (fluff wise)

 

Well fluff may orientate you strategy but do not decide it. If the rules makes Azrael better in front line don't keep him in the back for strange "fluff reasons".

I remember with my TS in v4 : fluff said that TS avoid H2H. Problem : with their 2W hidden champ with PF and S&P special rules they were perfect CC unit. 

So I used them as such...

 

To me Azrael is good for getting a strong line of termis advancing toward the enemy. Give him a termi command squad with standard of fortitude and get 2 squad of 6-8 termis (one on each flank) advancing with him. the other solution is to make him advance in a transport and profit from your scoring bikes to teleport the termis squad within 12" from the Banner. Just keep a tactical squad to hold your objective in your deployment zone.

[facmanpob]

 

 

To me Azrael is good for getting a strong line of termis advancing toward the enemy. Give him a termi command squad with standard of fortitude and get 2 squad of 6-8 termis (one on each flank) advancing with him. the other solution is to make him advance in a transport and profit from your scoring bikes to teleport the termis squad within 12" from the Banner. Just keep a tactical squad to hold your objective in your deployment zone.

Just remember that in order for him to have a Terminator Command Squad there must be another Terminator HQ in your army (either Libby or Chappy most probably) which means that you will be spending at least 300 points on HQ options, plus another 300+ points on the Command Squad. Might not be to everybody's taste. :)

[march10k]

I agree about his uses (although, if you're using him right, none of the warlord traits are very attractive!), but there's already a thread on PRECISELY this topic...and it's not even slipped to the second page.  Oh, Lucifer!!!!  Yoo-Hoo!

[Master Avoghai]

Just remember that in order for him to have a Terminator Command Squad there must be another Terminator HQ in your army

Is he?

Thought that as a SGM he could either choose a termi or a PA command squad

 

Well as in v6 I never go to battle without psychic support I could take a termi librarian...

[march10k]

 

Just remember that in order for him to have a Terminator Command Squad there must be another Terminator HQ in your army

Is he?

Thought that as a SGM he could either choose a termi or a PA command squad

 

Well as in v6 I never go to battle without psychic support I could take a termi librarian...

 

No DWCS for Azzy.  And I never fo into battle with psychic support any more...I found that I'd just default to prescience when I did, and with the nerf to the psychic hood, having a librarian doesn't really give you any psychic defense...so I just take a chappy instead.  More fighty, less head-explody.

[Gillyfish]

So long as this focuses on Azrael rather than all HQs I'm comfortable leaving it here.

[march10k]

Meh...Gilly got here first...Luci loves closing threads

[Upstartes]

I like Azrael - just cuz. So regardless of whether it's smart to use him, I've been thinking of how to do it. He's my Grand Warlord in a Crusade of Fire campaign - I wanted added flexibility from challenge to challenge. But anyway...

 

I've been thinking of allying vanilla marines to get a Storm Raven, and that lead to this idea: allied vanilla libby with Gate of Infinity. Put him in squad of choice with Azzy, hiding in backfield. Zoom bikes up for teleport homer action, then Gate Azzy to front line. Support with storm raven.

[Dark_Master]

When I saw that he unlocked bikes and termis as troops I was tempted.

 

I just wish he had come with the rumoured TDA option (like Calgar) so I could have deep striked him with some DWK.

 

As I don't have the model I'm not going to bother. Going to have a Techmarine with a PFG with my back field with the dakka pole command squad.

 

The PFG is better as it effects more than the squad, as ill probs field one or two Mortis/rifleman dreads behind the tech to benefit from the PFG.

 

If they do take damage the tech can attempt to repair.

 

DM

[facmanpob]

As soon as allies are in season then using Azreal becomes easier I think. Lots of different ideas are being pushed forward for discussion all round the forums, IG blob squads, Black Templar Crusader squads, Vanilla libbies with gate of infinity, etc.......

 

the issue I think that is stumping a lot of people is running him in a DA only list, without using a Land Raider. And this is why I'm interested. I own a very nice Dark Vengeance Company Master with the same weapon loadout as Asrael, and he would look very nice as my GotC Chapter Master. I do not own a Land Raider........hmmmm.

 

I think I've worked out how to design lists with the obvious HQs - Sammy, Belial, Libby, Chappies etc......I am turning my mind to what I am calling Azrael-wing. :)

[FarFromSam]

As the OP said I keep him back.  Look at it this way he is a one man  Aegis DL (4++[put other behind for a 5+]), apothecary (warlord trait the FNP[he's with tacticals anyway]), and the counter assault unit that chews up what ever drop pods, or DS's in.  Don't forget blind on his combi bolter, orks fear this.

 

Let ravenwing and DW take forward objectives, they are scoring now ;)  My two cents.

[Rizara]

The PFG is a great option till that unit gets assaulted then both you and the enemy in combat get the invunerable save. Also it o ly includes those within 3 inches so a large unit might not all get the benefit, depends on how tightly you set them up which then makes that unit become a pie plate magnet. It is still a useful option, so not saying its bad it just has some downsides.

 

As for the landraider, it's a big points drop for a ride for azrael. When you can go with a squad tranport that you attach him two like a drop pod, rhino, or razorback.

[Upstartes]

The primary function of the land raider is to let him and his squad run out and pummel someone immediately. In a high-points game, I think that can be worthwhile. In lower-point games, however, I'll probably be going drop pod.

[Brother Immolator]

I have come with this in a 2k points game:

 

H.Q.
Azrael
-- For the Lion!
Command squad
-- 2 combi melta
-- 3 plasma pistol
-- 3 power weaps (2 swords 1 maul)
-- Apothecary
-- Drop pod
Azreal attached.

Troops
Tactical squad x2
-- +5 marines
-- flamer
-- missile launcher
-- flakk missiles
-- melta bombs

Ravenwing Attack Squadron x2
-- +3 bikers
-- Melta bombs
-- 2 plasma guns

 

Deathwing terminator Squad (245)
-- x5 Thunderhammers / Stromshields

 

Elites

Deathwing knights
-- +1 knight

Unless I miscalculated something its a bit under 2k. Now I need to tweak it a bit since I think I am missing something, but the general Idea is to go second, drop az with the squad the pod and the terminators inside the enemy line while the bikes approach from the weakest  flank and the tacts hold home. Hammer and anvil maneuver. Both the TH/SS squad and the bikes are scoring so more or less taking and holding enemy objectives wont be an issue.

[cypherkk]

Strategically speaking but not from experience I'd see an Azrael list work with lots of reserve units and the Briliant planning warlord trait.  Something like this

 

Azrael

Command squad in drop pod most likely with devestation standard but FNP may work too.

 

2 tactical squads in drop pods

 

Terminator shooting squad or 2

 

1+ravenwing attack squads with full support units.

 

Followed possibly by other support units alpha striking like the vengance or support craft like the RVK with GL and Dark talon.

 

The ravenwing Start on the board proabably combat squaded.  They use the scout to position up the table in LOS blocking terrain Thats 3 possible teleport homers immediately turn 1 tacs come in and position close to eachother and hopefully in cover.  Terminators may come in depending on need and army (may hold off to flank or attack the rear of the enemy turn 2). 

 

Turn 2 manipulate reserves as need to bring or hold depending on targets  of opportunity.  But most likely a couple of MM speeders to pop transports and the command squad arrives to dish out devestation for the tactical squads.     If the enemy move to engage tac squads, the terminators (if held back) arrive in the rear and provide crossfire, probably taking vehicles in the rear.   Ravenwing moved to flank or position for terminator drop will help eliminate scatter.

 

Terminators and command squads advance to assault if prudent.

[march10k]

 

 

The PFG is better as it effects more than the squad, as ill probs field one or two Mortis/rifleman dreads behind the tech to benefit from the PFG.

 

 

And you're going to get the entire command squad, plus a couple of dreads, within 3"?  That has "pie-plate me!" written all over it.

[Boniface]

This might not be the best use of Azzy but i think it has some merit. I thought it a good idea to share it as if you're anything like me you find Azzy a bit difficult to field. 

Having some experience with him over the many years I would suggest the following.

 

Put him with a 9 man assault squad (minus their packs) and get a free drop pod.

 

Add onto this warlord traits and a 4++ save. I think this is one of the better set ups for him.

 

You can choose furious charge for +1S on the charge, Legendary Fighter for mashing up victory points (as my understanding is every character is a victory point so a squad with a sergeant is worth 2 VPS instead of 1) or make him a scoring unit.

 

My reasoning for this set up is if you want to use something like the Dakkapole this splits target priority add to this additional threats such as terminators and bikes and you have a list which can force your opponent to make tough choices regarding priority. This gives you more flexibility over all.

 

I have posted an example list on the army list page.

 

I hope this helps others who want to use Azrael more effectively.

 

I also set this up in response to a gauntlet throw down.

[Cypher 102]

Azrael gets his choice of the Dark Angels warlord traits only.  I don't think he even has access to the generic warlord traits.

[Brother Immolator]

Honestly I would take a command squad with apoth and decked out with powerweaps in a pod.

 

 

 

Azrael gets his choice of the Dark Angels warlord traits only.  I don't think he even has access to the generic warlord traits.

 

True, he can get furius charge though.

[Boniface]

My only argument with the command squad set up like that is the cost plus having all your eggs in one basket is a bad idea. I dont think any one unit should be so highly powered it is asking to be destroyed. Splitting it up is only prudent in my opinion.

 

My mistake with the traits. I thought he could have any.

 

Also cost difference

10 guys in drop pod = 215 + 153

6 guys in drop pod = 215 + 240 (based on power weapons, standard and Apoth) + 35

[march10k]

~sigh~  I'll say it again.  The best way to use azzy is to put him in a command squad with the standard of devastation, surrounded by four full tactical squads.  He gives the four meat shields on the banner a 4++, and he gives the tactical squads LD10, while the banner that he's protecting gives them salvo 4/2.  And if anyone wades through all that fire to charge, he's available to bail the tactical squad(s) out (and since the enemy has made it across the board at this point, dropping the 4++ from the banner is probably not a big deal any more).

 

No squad you piece together around him is going to be more efficient than terminators, 4++ and furious charge be damned!

[Boniface]

I agree with you march on most points. one of my lists of using azrael involves 4 tactical squads, only problem is the static aspect.

 

In hindsight I think a command squad is the better option 255 points for 25 power weapon attacks (on charge) is insane. It just costs so much I was looking for a cheaper alternative.

 

I'm all up for gun line tactics with azrael. Just want to find other uses for him.