march10k Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Well...to be honest, I think that the aforementioned gunline is begging to have 2 cheap RASs attached. Plop the gunline down on top of one or two objectives, dakka the enemy to hell and back, and keep those 8 bikes (2x3+2xAB) turbo-ing around NOT fighting, and then on turn five, have the bikes crash the OBJs that the green line isn't camping. If the enemy wants to shoot at the bikes in spite of their fearsome invul, that keeps the tactical squads healthy, right? Nothing wrong with having one or two of those tac squads combat-squaded so that you have a mobile element to move out and take objectives around turn 4 if the enemy does go to the considerable effort of erradicating the bikes. It's boring, methodical, plodding, and effective! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The only decent use for Azrael is to be up close and chopping stuff up. Having 200+ points of your army mostly just sitting around is simply not a good idea. Azrael just doesn't do enough when just sitting around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The PFG is better as it effects more than the squad, as ill probs field one or two Mortis/rifleman dreads behind the tech to benefit from the PFG. And you're going to get the entire command squad, plus a couple of dreads, within 3"? That has "pie-plate me!" written all over it. Unless the dakka pole and the PFG are in a rhino.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The only decent use for Azrael is to be up close and chopping stuff up. Having 200+ points of your army mostly just sitting around is simply not a good idea. Azrael just doesn't do enough when just sitting around. Bovine feces. A veteran sergeant costs ten points, and only gets your squad LD9. Azzy gives them LD10. If you field six squads (four tactical, one assault, and one dev), and only amortize ten points per squad ( think 15 is fair, actually), that brings azzy down to ~150 points. Slap him in the devastator squad (or a standard of devastation command squad), and he's down to 70 points, since that's the cheapest alternative for giving the devastators a 4++. Oh, but he unlocks bikes and termies...if you field either one, scrape off a few more points. In the end, you're paying less than 50 points for a decent fighter. At that cost, he's fine as a counterassault character, besides which in an army like that, if the enemy never gets close enough for him to counter-assault, it's totally fine, because he is already beaten! But...9 times out of 10, Azzy can sit back and be a commander instead of a brawler, and the brawl will come to him anyway!Let me repeat this: If you're contemplating taking him as the leader of a melee unit to actively hunt down the enemy, you're better off with a mace-armed interrogator-chaplain...or belial.Azzy does more good standing around than most HQ do chasing VP around the board for six turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I doupt the mace armed interrogator will survie as good as Az while admist the enemy though. He has a better statline and the warlord trait can potentially turn him into a better beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boniface Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 I agree with March on all counts for Azrael. The only acceptable alternative is if your whole army is going via drop-pod or something similar where you still need the leadership buff etc. that he provides. In this case either go for an alternative HQ or put him in a drop pod with either the command squad kitted out or an assault squad (to limit the point expendature). I am a strong advocate for sitting him near the back and waiting. On a side note does the Lion Helm affect a vehicle (in a similar way to the PFG) because it states 'confers a 4+ invulnerable save to Azrael and his unit' technically a transport is part of the unit as they can't be purchased separately and no other unit can use a "unit's" transport (as stated in the main rules) other than that unit. It also could be argued (not that i'm going to at this point) that this affect to the transport is permanent (as long as azrael is with the associated unit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 When you embark a transport or purchase it you don't attach the squad to it or it to the squad. You embark it, its a different concept entirely. Both the transport and the unit are different kill points and act separately too. If it wasnt any different the rules would prohibit using the transport for any other unit, or force it to move along side he unit. Think the ravenwing attack bike scenario. Technically, it should be affecting the transport since its a force field, but in game the answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boniface Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 I just looked and realised they have changed the rules slightly regarding dedicated transports. Pity I was hoping I'd noted an oversight which would have been nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I just looked and realised they have changed the rules slightly regarding dedicated transports. Pity I was hoping I'd noted an oversight which would have been nice. Cant remember if/when the transport and the sloggers were one unit :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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