Imperial Guard allies

[Giga]

For awhile now I've been trying to figure out a good (and not too expensive $$$-wise) way to add guard allies to my vanilla marines. With stormravens becoming available to us, I'm unlikely to ever bother with a vendetta (the model is just too damn big), so it's all about getting some warm bodies & heavy support to my list.

 

My current guard ally template is standard stuff:

Company command squad - 4x grenade launcher, chimera

Platoon command squad - autocannon, commissar

Infantry squad - autocannon

Infantry squad - autocannon

Manticore

 

The idea is to have 25 scoring bodies to hold home objectives and man the quad-gun, freeing up my two tactical squads to support the rest of the army midfield. The commissar is there so that, in kill points missions, I can have a stubborn blob + he or the platoon commander have BS4 for the quad-gun. The manticore is just plain awesome. What do you guys think?

 

So, do you use IG allies and how do you go about it? And if not, how would you run them if you did?

[*Furyou Miko]

I've been playing with the idea of a Special Weapon Squad with sniper rifles to babysit the quad gun. Gives one of those three ablative wounds something to do once in a while, and they're relatively cheap additions that free up your infantry squad to roam in a chimera.

 

Grenade launchers generally aren't as effective as plasmaguns because of krak grenades only being AP4 and frag grenades being S3.

 

Commissar would do better in an infantry squad that the command squad -all he's going to do in the PCS is kill your platoon commander. In the IS he improves the chances of Orders being successfully received.

[Giga]

Grenade launchers generally aren't as effective as plasmaguns because of krak grenades only being AP4 and frag grenades being S3.

I went grenade launchers because of cheap points cost and because I already have tons of AP2 in a list I'm planning to use, so there's no need for additional plasma.

Commissar would do better in an infantry squad that the command squad -all he's going to do in the PCS is kill your platoon commander. In the IS he improves the chances of Orders being successfully received.

Ahhhh yes, you're right. I'll definitely put the commissar into one of the infantry squads. :]

[*Furyou Miko]

Fair enough on the grenade launchers. ^^; Truth is I use them too - although that's mostly because shadowforge don't make plasmaguns or meltaguns, but they do do a nice little special weapon pack with a medic (normally gets used as a demo charge), a vox, a grenade launcher and a sniper rifle.

[maturin]

It's worth loading up in flamers for your units - they're cheaper and just as effective in guard hands as in marine ones, and you can take more of them. I'd toss them in your infantry squads as a deterrent to being assaulted. They're pretty effective if you do actually get assaulted, too.

 

My own list is very similar to yours, but I trade out the Manticore for a valk, and bling out the platoon just a bit. My CCS hangs out with the infantry squads to order them to Bring it Down!, while the PCS takes 4 flamers and rides in the valk. Flamers don't care about BS3, and 4 templates will hurt troops of any type. There's a chance they might even claim a midfield objective. You might want to consider a similar swap yourself, and give the chimera to the PCS.

[minigun762]

I agree with the advice so far but I'd probably lose the commisar entirely and reinvest those points back into the squads.

 

Maturin has the right idea on tactics, use the CCS to issue orders to the infantry squads and let the PCS run around in the chimera claiming objectives or intercepting incoming assault units. Remember, those fresh officers are looking for glory anyway, so give it to them!

[Giga]

I dunno, I don't see much point in claiming midfield objectives with guardsmen when I already have 20-30 tactical marines in the list. :S

 

Just to give you an idea of how I mean to use this guard template, here's an approximate 1850 list:

 

Librarian

Company Command - 4x grenade launcher, chimera

Tactical Squad - plasmagun, combiplasma, plasma cannon, las/plas razorback

Tactical Squad - plasmagun, combiplasma, plasma cannon, las/plas razorback

Tactical Squad - flamer, combiflamer, meltabombs, missile launcher

Platoon Command - autocannon

Infantry Squad - autocannon

Infantry Squad - autocannon, commissar

Stormraven - tl-melta, tl-lascannon, extra armor

Vindicator - dozer blade

Vindicator - dozer blade

Manticore

Aegis Defense Line - quadgun

 

So as you can see, it's basically all about slowly moving forward with the tacticals, razorbacks, and vindicators, while IG hold home objectives and provide long range shooting. In relic or kill points missions I could turn them into a 26 men blob and use them to pick up the relic or just tarpit something. This is why I need the commissar, I have no other way to ensure they'll be able to tarpit stuff for a long time. Stormraven carries the 3rd tactical squad, which is supposed to take enemy backfield objectives or just parachute on faraway objective the stormraven passes over. I could also play this exact same list only with 5 th/ss termies instead of the 3rd tac squad.

 

EDIT: Platoon command squad going around with 3 flamers and a heavy flamer sure sounds like a nice idea, especially if the chimera itself also has a heavy flamer tucked on instead of the heavy bolter. :] I'll definitely give that idea a shot!

[Uaronain]

I do love manticores but I like the russ better to help take fire off of the vindies and provide more firepower at range and with sweet armor! If you want cheap bodies and dont mind a little conversion work I would suggest Shock Troopers as it does not get any better bang for your buck. Please do not take this as an insult but around where I live playing with mutiple vindies is seen as kinda cheesey, kinda like helldrake spam. The guys always place well at adepticon and seem to think diversity is a better tool than a few tools that can be countered. A lasgun can kill a spacemarine and because of it I learned to love first rank fire second rank fire! 30 guardsmen firing 60 times at up to 24" away or 90 times within 12" inches.... just sheer volume means they will fail some saves IMO.

[maturin]

Giga - I understand what you mean about the Marines as your primary attacking force.

But note that the PCS does not have the "combined squads" rule, and can't actually join your mob. Given that, it makes much more sense to have the CCS hang out with the platoon squads. Bring It Down! is the best order your autocannons will ever see.

The only difference is BS3 vs. BS4, and with flamers it doesn't matter.

[Giga]

@ Uaronain

 

I'm probably going to be buying the IG battleforce, as it has all the heavy weapon teams & infantry I'm going to need for this sort of list. The sentinel won't be a waste either, as I intend to convert it into a counts-as rifleman dreadnought, with a marine as the driver. ;]

 

As for dual vindicators being cheesy, that's just nonsense. For one, vindicators don't work unless you have at least two (one is too easy to counter, two are a massive force multiplier), and for the second, in this era of cronair, triple heldrakes, and nob bikerz that get FNP vs STR8, I really don't think a couple tanks with AV11 side armor would be considered cheesy by anyone except a total noob. :S

 

@ maturin

 

Agreed. I've already reworked the list to have 4 flamer PCS in chimera, while CCS gets autocannon and to hang out with the troops. 

 

PPCs can't combine with infantry squads? Darn. Good thing you pointed that out to me, I missed that. Something to consider. :S

[minigun762]

Yeah PCS are either speed bumps for assault or cheap scoring units hiding in transports.

[UltraTacSgt]

@ Uaronain

As for dual vindicators being cheesy, that's just nonsense. For one, vindicators don't work unless you have at least two (one is too easy to counter, two are a massive force multiplier), and for the second, in this era of cronair, triple heldrakes, and nob bikerz that get FNP vs STR8, I really don't think a couple tanks with AV11 side armor would be considered cheesy by anyone except a total noob. :S

 

I second this bigtime. I run two in all my lists. Vindicators are AV13/11/11. It is way easy to get a side shot on them or simply pop them with a few LC's. And pie plates miss just like anything else. Compared to all of the other possible ways to be cheesy from all the different codex's, complaining about two Vindicators from Codex: Space Marines is pretty laughable. Maybe running three is a bit lacking in skill and imagination, but still, for one or two built into a balanced list, give me a break.

[GrandMasterJeremiah]

I've been thinking of it for my DA army but just get a real basic cmd squad and bare bone infantry to keep the points low and get three basilisks to close the range void In my space marine and use them to soften key targets before my termies get there turn two and I like them over leman Russ simply because my tanks are always in 48" or less so I just take my annilators

[tvih]

I only have the following IG, bought to bolster my Templars:

- 2 Vostroyan Officers (one acts as a Lord Commissar)

- 10 ratlings

- Vostroyan Firstborn squad

- 2 Vendettas

- Manticore

 

The Manticore I only got two weeks ago. The others back in December, back when the original rationale was getting the air support with minimal other expenditure. As such I only have a single squad to keep it cheap. Might get a Steel Legion squad later on, though (actually that was what I was originally supposed to get). A platoon might be an option at some point, since admittedly they are quite nice bang for the buck.

 

Anyway, the ratlings were added as a bit of an afterthought. They seemed somewhat cost-effective, especially when putting them behind an Aegis or in a ruin for a 3+ cover. With their BS4 sniper rifles they are pretty good. I'm not sure if I'll ever use both two Vendettas now that I have Templar flyers. Them being in a squadron is a bit of a pain, plus they're a pain to transport.

 

The Manticore... well, what's not to like? It's not so good against Marine infantry, but it'll wreck vehicles. And against most non-Marine armies it just wrecks. There are good Leman Russ options too of course, but I liked the look of the missile launchers so I went with that.

 

I haven't had a chance to really use them yet, as since December I've only played like 5 matches. Only in a big Apoc match last week did I first use my IG - minus the ratlings and the second Vendetta.

 

In retrospect I'm not really sure how all this rambling is helpful to anyone... but as I see it the main point in taking IG allies (or any allies, really) is to get units that you don't really have an equivalent for in your own Codex. As a Marine/Templar player there isn't much S10, never mind at long range, so the Manticore with D3 S10 blasts was appealing for that reason. The Vendettas are cheap points-wise, and so are the ratlings compared to marine snipers (which BT don't even get). One could of course get more of their troops, since it is a good amount of shooting for the points. I opted not to do that yet, since I find I always run out of points trying to get the things I want even without taking IG allies. Plus I find huge blobs of infantry hard to place on the table, never all in cover and such.

 

Also, ROTFLMAO at comparing Vindis to Heldrakes in cheesiness.

[Reichfaust]

I wanted an IG ally detachment for my Wolves for one reason and one reason only--heavy artillery. I've stayed light on troops, taking a Primaris Psyker as my HQ who will usually add a bit of firepower to a footslogging Grey Hunter squad, and a single veteran squad with Sniper Rifles and a Mortar to sit on a backfield objective and hopefully snipe a few special weapons out of squads (also, this was one of the cheapest ways to equip them, which was a big tick in their favour).

 

I've got 3 Basilisks built up at the moment, and am hoping to convert at least one to a Manticore--D3 S10 pie plates per turn sounds like a lot of fun. Also thinking about adding a Vendetta (or three) to my ranks.

 

What are your thoughts on Plasma Vets? I have been considering making up some Veterans with wall-to-wall Plasma, 3 guns and 2 pistols on the Sgt for some gunslinging hilarity. People say they're a good way to get Plasma on the field, but as a Marine player I take a look at that 5+ save and think they should stay as far away from the enemy as possible.

[Zombie P]

I have a lovely little 500pt attachment that I use. I can run on its own as a balanced list in 500pts games, and works great as a little detachment to run with any balanced marine list.

 

CCS with 4 plasma in Chimera

Vet squad with 3 melta in chimera

Inf Platoon with 2 grenades and 2 auto cannons

PCS with 4 grenades. 

 

Comes in at exactly 500 points, gives you some extra rapid assault elements and a home sitter unit. Plus, it stops people from screaming CHEESE when they see a Leman Russ at 500 points!

 

ZP