Darkshroud - worth buying?

[Centurio]

I like the cupola, I think its probably inspired by this:

  http://olive-drab.com/images/id_m7_priest_calif_700.jpg

 

I bought one and I'm going to try to assemble it this week.  I think it will add a lot of survivability to the Ravenwing.

[Brother Immolator]

I like the cupola, I think its probably inspired by this:

  http://olive-drab.com/images/id_m7_priest_calif_700.jpg

 

I bought one and I'm going to try to assemble it this week.  I think it will add a lot of survivability to the Ravenwing.

 

Thats the m7 priest?

[Centurio]

Yes.  Its the M7 Priest.

 

As far as the Darkshroud.... I know people say speeders suck in 6th edition, but they said they sucked when I was playing them in last edition too, and I had a lot of success with a dual wing army that had 7 speeders.  They were Sammael in a speeder, 3 typhoons, and 3 assault cannon speeders from the RASs.  I had quite a bit of success with the list.   Those assault cannon speeders were 100 points each.  I think I could use 2 dark shrouds instead.  The 2 darkshrouds could cover each other so they could fire and still have the 2+ cover save.  They could essentially make a more than 20" wide area for a speeder gunline to have protection.  With legal premeasuring in 6th edition, it will be even easier to keep my speeders at their proper distance.  I may try to proxy a Darkshroud and give it a try.

[Upstartes]

Regarding the cupola: I actually like the look of the cupola itself. What looks wrong is where it is placed on the speeder. Maybe if I get the model I'll carefully remove the cupola and install it on a razorback with a marine manning the razorback weapon. Or maybe for the pintle-mounted multi-melta on a Land Raider.

[Centurio]

Yeah that would look good.  One thing I dont like about the cupola on the darkshroud is that in the picture it doesnt look like there is enough room for the marine's legs.  But I am waiting until I open the box and have a look at it in person because it seems like many of the official GW pictures don't do the models justice or make them look weird.

[Dark_Master]

I like the cupola.

I don't dislike it, just where they put it. There is no reason to move from the original gunner position.

 

DM

[Brother Immolator]

Yeah that would look good.  One thing I dont like about the cupola on the darkshroud is that in the picture it doesnt look like there is enough room for the marine's legs.  But I am waiting until I open the box and have a look at it in person because it seems like many of the official GW pictures don't do the models justice or make them look weird.

 

 

 

I like the cupola.

I don't dislike it, just where they put it. There is no reason to move from the original gunner position.

 

DM

 

I dont really like and I agree that there was no reason to remove the gunner and replace it with that. Resculpting the whole thing though requires massive skills. Its easier to convert a standard speeder to match the darkshroud with the right bits and saws me thinks.

[Upstartes]

(Using my best Neil Patrick Harris voice) Challenge... ACCEPTED!

 

Now I just have to buy a darkshroud model...

[CAM77]

Here is the start of my attempt to fix this bizarre looking kit. It is a LS Vengeance, but you get the idea

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii21/CMcGill_2008/Dark%20Angels/2013-03-11203734.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii21/CMcGill_2008/Dark%20Angels/2013-03-11203715.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii21/CMcGill_2008/Dark%20Angels/2013-03-11203641.jpg

So in terms of looks... I think it may be salvageable. Rules-wise I'm not so sure, but I do want to try out a deep striking LSV. It is more points than a vindicator, but it has one advantage that I can see; If you deep strike it it should always get to shoot its large template, which is often more than a vindi gets to do. The dark shroud though I think is well worth the points if you have a lot of bikes or speeders.

[Centurio]

Nice.  I think I will try that with mine.

[ValourousHeart]

Meanwhile 9+ speeders with 3++ and 4++ saves all round could get annoying real quick.

From personal experience I can tell you there is no could about it. I ran 8-9 individual speeders in 5th and just steam rolled with them. Adding a cover save just makes them that much better.

 

They can get any where you need them to be. But really you only need to move them into range of the next unit(s) you want to kill.

 

Now you guys keep saying that you want to take 2 DS so they give each other the stealth bonus. But the rule for shroud of angels say that the AOE stealth doesn't affect the DS. How are you getting around what is says explicitly.

[Centurio]

In 5th, I used Sammael in a speeder plus 6 speeders and 2 vindicators and it was pretty tough.  All the good long range weapons that would normally be used to kill the speeders would be shooting at the vindicators.   For some reason everyone thinks Sammael on the speeder will die to close combat, but all I have to say is good luck catching him.  I don't think I lost him more than once, because he usually keeps his distance and there are too many other things for the enemy to deal with.  Combined with the MM attack bikes and ravenwing combat squads with meltaguns, enemy vehicles evaporated fast.  I haven't tried the army in 6th edition yet.  They say in 6th that vehicles are rare, but with the addition of the banner of devastation we can deal with infanty well, in theory.

 

 

As far as the dual DSs.... point taken.

[GlauG]

CAM77, not a bad way to go at all. :)  For my part, I'll be removing the cupola from mine and replacing it with an underslung nose turret.  Any reason you removed the front engines though?

[Drunkspleen]

What is people's opinion on the Assault Cannon upgrade, I feel like more often than not I will be going flat out and/or not throwing my Darkshroud into 24" range of the enemy, but I can't help but feel like being able to threaten vehicles would be a nice bonus.

[pueriexdeus]

in another thread the HB/AssCannon question is being raised.

 

Thinking of keeping the DS at distance will necessitate the HB, but using the DS for its Junk bonus on Bikes will necessitate keeping him within 12" of the bikes, making him a better target for the OP.

 

I am personaly drifting toward a Tornado filled RSS with the DS in the middle.

[Drunkspleen]

ah thanks pueriexdeus, I'll go check it out.

[march10k]

Meh...The darkshroud has "flying altar" written all over it.  I'm chin-mounting an assault cannon on mine (a la the tornado), and putting a chaplain in the ~ahem~ pulpit.

[Upstartes]

Well, I proxied a regular speeder for a darkshroud tonight with a friend just to get the feel of the thing. In this particular game, it didn't make a lot of difference (he had a lot of "ignore cover saves" units), but I still liked the way that it played. I plan to get the real model soon and convert it to my satisfaction.

[AngelVeto]

 

 

Meanwhile 9+ speeders with 3++ and 4++ saves all round could get annoying real quick.

From personal experience I can tell you there is no could about it. I ran 8-9 individual speeders in 5th and just steam rolled with them. Adding a cover save just makes them that much better.

 

They can get any where you need them to be. But really you only need to move them into range of the next unit(s) you want to kill.

 

Now you guys keep saying that you want to take 2 DS so they give each other the stealth bonus. But the rule for shroud of angels say that the AOE stealth doesn't affect the DS. How are you getting around what is says explicitly.

I think that is more towards one DS giving itself stealth to go along with its already shrouded USR. I don't have to book with me right now but I will check later

[Jehoel]

The book is kinda meh on whether a DS can give another DS stealth. Could be read either way, I would have to say. I think they meant for the rule to mean that they can't give themself stealth, but the wording is not the best if so.

[[TA]Typher]

Nice.  I think I will try that with mine.

 

I agree. It looks better like this.

 

Good job! I am soo going to steal this idea when I get around to buying one.

[IndigoJack]

I think the DS works with no upgrades. Why buy another DS to give it stealth when you can move flat out to give it a +1 to cover, giving it a 2+? Sure, it can't fire it's gun, but you didn't buy the DS as a weapons platform did you?

[CAM77]

 

Nice.  I think I will try that with mine.

 

I agree. It looks better like this.

 

Good job! I am soo going to steal this idea when I get around to buying one.

Haha, steal away!  The model really does need some tweaking to look decent, imo.  I ended up moving the engines around as well as turning the pulpit into more of a turret, since, to me, the four small engines just made it look wierd, and I didn't really like the placement of any of them, so I just moved 2 of them down lower and slightly forward, and got rid of the front ones.  I tried a lot of alternatives as well before settling on this, including things like the front of a Baal predator turret, and Stormtalon engines on the sides, but this was the best thing I found, to kind of tone down some of the sillier aspects, while still keeping the model pretty close to the original.

 

Now as far as weapon options go, I agree with what others have said, and to just leave the heavy bolter on the DS version, since I really wouldn't want to make it any more of a target, and I wouldn't ever be tempted to move it closer than it should be just to be able to shoot the AC.  I'm hoping that on the Vengeance though, the assault cannon will synergize well with the range and preferred targets of the plasma battery (large blast mode).

[Upstartes]

I initially thought one DS could give another DS stealth. However, I looked at the wording again last night. "...all friendly units within 6" of one or more Ravenwing Darkshrouds gain the Stealth special rule. This does not affect the Darkshrouds themselves." So, if you have multiple darkshrouds providing overlapping effects, they don't stack, AND darkshrouds (plural) are not themselves (plural) affected, even if they are a friendly unit within 6" of one or more darkshrouds.

 

I'm pretty sure that darkshrouds don't give other darkshrouds stealth.

[Master Toddius]

Guys - lets look at the true power of the Dark Shroud:

•3x 10 man Dev squads with weapons of your choosing.
♦In Ruins.
•Trail the bolters to the rear of the ruins.
♦Dark shroud BEHIND ruins within 6 inches of each dev squad.
•Add level 1 librarian with prescience for 1 super accurate squad per turn.

= 2+ cover save *Cheapest in the game* devestator squads.

Yes, it gets that sick.