Bjorn in 6th?

[bjoluemblem]

So...Bjorn the dreadnought. Sixth edition, plus everything else. 4 HPs, 13 12 10, 5++. I'm looking at running him as part of an allied contingent, just for fun, not competitive. Pointswise, he's not much more than a kitted out defiler from the chaos dex, so that's not a super big deal, i guess. I was thinking maybe lascannon arm behind an aegis, or maybe part of a Master of the Forge dread list. I think his value is pretty high, even though he costs more than a land raider :) . AV13 seems to be the thing to beat these days and he fills in quite nicely in an armored line. Thoughts on how to use him best, or just any value he has in 6th?

[SamWasKing]

Sadly old Bjorn is only 3 hull points.

 

Interestingly there is nothing in the FAQ about Bjorns Ancient Tactician only working for primary detactment.

Venerable is interesting for him too since it now means that things like auto cannons, plas and even krak is going to have a hard time glancing him to death because they need to roll 5+ twice in a row and even then he has his invun.

[skeletoro]

Hmm, isn't ven a reroll on the damage chart? Not to pen?

[Grimtooth]

Have fun. Don't forget that he is also a character and thus can challenge and precision shot.

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

 

Hmm, isn't ven a reroll on the damage chart? Not to pen?

Yeah what he said... Kind of makes Venerable less useful in 6th edition if this is indeed the case.

[skeletoro]

Hmm, not completely useless, but yeah, less good. I mean, would you reroll anything less than a 6?

 

I would probably consider rerolling an "immobilized" result... as it really hurts dreadnoughts in CC. Not much else though...

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Have fun. Don't forget that he is also a character and thus can challenge and precision shot.

 

Which means he really wants to use the assault cannon, especially consider the BS6 (the reroll would give a precision shot still right?).

[Squark]

Eh, the Plasma cannon is the same price, and BS 6 plasma cannons are, well, fantastic.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Eh, the Plasma cannon is the same price, and BS 6 plasma cannons are, well, fantastic.

 

But in the case of Bjorn, doesn't precision shot AND could potentially gets hot thus diminishing an already low survivability to begin with.

[dswanick]

 

Eh, the Plasma cannon is the same price, and BS 6 plasma cannons are, well, fantastic.

 

But in the case of Bjorn, doesn't precision shot AND could potentially gets hot thus diminishing an already low survivability to begin with.

Bjorn's BS6 ensures that you only have a 1:36 (2.8%) chance of suffering a Gets Hot!, which is then only a Glancing hit on a further roll of 1-3 (50%), and can then be ignored on a d6 roll of 5+ (33.3%) for a grand total chance of 0.92% chance of actually losing a Hull Point to a Plasma Cannon Gets Hot!.

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

 

Eh, the Plasma cannon is the same price, and BS 6 plasma cannons are, well, fantastic.

 

But in the case of Bjorn, doesn't precision shot AND could potentially gets hot thus diminishing an already low survivability to begin with.

But isn't an accurate blast template a form of a precision shot now in that the models under the template have to take the hits?

[dswanick]

 

 

Eh, the Plasma cannon is the same price, and BS 6 plasma cannons are, well, fantastic.

 

But in the case of Bjorn, doesn't precision shot AND could potentially gets hot thus diminishing an already low survivability to begin with.

But isn't an accurate blast template a form of a precision shot now in that the models under the template have to take the hits?

No.  It's not Barrage so Wounds are still allocated per the standard rules for shooting (ie closest to the firer first).

[MeatGrinder]

What. Bjorn is a character. He can challenge? I still dont think hes worth it but damn is that awesome.

[dswanick]

What. Bjorn is a character. He can challenge? I still dont think hes worth it but damn is that awesome.

He can Challenge, he can Precision Shot with Assault Cannon or Lascannon.  Make him your Warlord, and you might roll all kinds of nifty extras for him.

[nurglez]

I don't see how Bjorn's BS6 helps him when the plasma overheats. As the overheat is a seperate roll for the plasma cannon (as opposed to plasma guns, where bs6 would help).

 

I love the idea of Bjorn, but haven't used him in awhile. Venerable isn't as useful as it was, the only nice thing about him to me is AV13, and I don't think just that is worth the cost.

[Jarl Deathwolf]

The BS6 helps because it allows him to re-roll the seperate Gets Hot roll, or even the whole scatter thing.

[skeletoro]

He's pretty nasty in a challenge. He preempts most characters that have any hope of penetrating his AV13. The most notable exception would be monstrous creature characters, I guess.

[eyeslikethunder]

^{If I was build a list around bjorn i would try to inlcude things like vindicators and predators to there are a a lot high armour targets}

[skeletoro]

I would definitely consider a Lucius Pattern Drop Pod (if using Forgeworld).

[shortysl]

The BS6 helps because it allows him to re-roll the seperate Gets Hot roll, or even the whole scatter thing.

How does it? The Plasma Cannon Gets Hot! roll is nothing to do with his BS. BS6 only counts for subtracting distance on the Scatter dice with a Plasma Cannon. It doesn't allow re-rolls of any kind when using Blast weapons as far as I'm aware.

[dswanick]

 

The BS6 helps because it allows him to re-roll the seperate Gets Hot roll, or even the whole scatter thing.

How does it? The Plasma Cannon Gets Hot! roll is nothing to do with his BS. BS6 only counts for subtracting distance on the Scatter dice with a Plasma Cannon. It doesn't allow re-rolls of any kind when using Blast weapons as far as I'm aware.

"Very rarely, a model may have a Ballistic Skill; of 6 or even more.  If a model has BS6 or higher; it gains a re-roll whenever it rolls a 1 To-Hit with ranged attacks.

...

If a model has a special rule that already confers it a re-roll To-Hit, then that re-roll takes precedence and the above chart is not used.

...

Remember, a dice can only ever be re-rolled once!", BRB, pg.13

 

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To-Hit (including because of BS 6+ or Twin-Linked), ... it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To-Hit.", BRB, pg.37

[shortysl]

"Very rarely, a model may have a Ballistic Skill; of 6 or even more.  If a model has BS6 or higher; it gains a re-roll whenever it rolls a 1 To-Hit with ranged attacks.

 

 

The BS6 helps because it allows him to re-roll the seperate Gets Hot roll, or even the whole scatter thing.

How does it? The Plasma Cannon Gets Hot! roll is nothing to do with his BS. BS6 only counts for subtracting distance on the Scatter dice with a Plasma Cannon. It doesn't allow re-rolls of any kind when using Blast weapons as far as I'm aware.

...

If a model has a special rule that already confers it a re-roll To-Hit, then that re-roll takes precedence and the above chart is not used.

...

Remember, a dice can only ever be re-rolled once!", BRB, pg.13

 

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To-Hit (including because of BS 6+ or Twin-Linked), ... it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To-Hit.", BRB, pg.37

Ok, thanks for that. Don't have the rulebook to hand.

[Desert Eagle]

I've been pondering if it is possible to include Bjorn in a semi-competitive list. He's expensive. Very expensive. But i think a few things in 6th may be working in his favour, like the ancient tactician special rule for instance. In my opinion, first blood is a pretty lame rule that i don't really care much for...but it is a part of the rulebook missions, so increasing the odds for going first is pretty decent. Also, in objective-based games he can somewhat negate the slay the warlord rule as he himself becomes a 1 point objective. On top of that you got skill shots, challenges etc. being a 6th ed boost for him and i belive av13 is a bit better with the internet saying there is no melta around. In 5th it always bothered me he coludn't take extra armour as it was such a huge deal for venerable dreads. With the value of extra armour in 5th being seriously decreased, thats not an issue anymore. And if he dies, there is basicly no drawbacks for being fearless anymore.

 

Cons is definitly 3 hull points, the venerable rule taking a beating, always giving up d3 victory points in such missions and those very hefty 270 points. 

 

But in a fully mechanized force, with lots of models with an av...i think he might fit in.

 

army list:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272889-1995p-bjorn-list/

[Russ Brother 92]

Personally I'd leave him for Apocalypse and run him with an Ancients Assault Force - thus he's not alone, you've got 4+ Dreads in Lucius pods and potentially a Techmarine/Iron Priest + retinue to back them all up - at which point I can see him (and friends) tearing through a lot of things...

[SeanyPrawny]

I ran a list with Bjorn the other week, I didn't get first turn and he was killed turn one,  4 las cannons glanced and penetrated him. Failed 3 of the saves and he died from lost hull points Not my favourite game ever. I lost because of it. 

 

I would like to play him more as he's by far the greatest character of the 40k universe but can't bring myself to until the rules change again.