Loyalist Fallen.

[Brother Immolator]

Actually brother my various points (condensed to one), is/are that there is too much fluff to contradict that they arent fallen as oposed to only a few notions that they 'might' be.

 

Its the same with the scenarios of alien visitors on earth: Too many stories but no hard proof and too many scientific explanations to throw those theories out of the window (and I am talking about hard science, not that flikering lights are Adromeda in twilight).

[Balthus Dire]

Brother Immolator I agree, I don't think the DAs would ever accept fallen into their ranks. But would they accept DA from before the fall? Astartes from Terra and Caliban completely loyal to the Lion and Emperor?

 

As far as my original post, I can order some awesome FW marines in heresy armour and paint them in black and red.

 

It will be completely fluffy to have a unit of Consecrators fight alongside the DAs (They have in the past), and I could possibly use the BA Codex to substitute rules for my Interrogator Chaplain Dread (and use both as an allied contingent).

 

The discussion with you all has raised many questions in my mind about the Consecrators themselves:

 

1) Why does no one know anything about their founding or Chapter master?

2) Why are they allowed to use the ancient Lutherite (or pre-fall) colours?

3) Why do they have access to so many relics?

4) Why do they fight in Mk 6 Corvus power armour?

 

You are 100% right, there is no proof of anything, so therefore no conclusions can be drawn. But there are some every strange unanswered questions attached to this Chapter!

[Brother Immolator]

Brother Immolator I agree, I don't think the DAs would ever accept fallen into their ranks. But would they accept DA from before the fall? Astartes from Terra and Caliban completely loyal to the Lion and Emperor?

Can they be found anywhere now and from where though? Assuming its done for a DIY chapter is completely possible.

If their names werent penned down in the book of salvation then Lysanders story would be applicable (I.E. almost a year of librarius and apothecarion tests to ensure he and his geneseed are pure) to reintroduce them to the chapter. It would be difficult to explain but it can be done if one is too carefull.

But 1000+ men lost in the warp is a major incident that must have been recorded somewhere if it was true for one of the established chapters.

Its my belief not to touch the major fluff threads of the universe (DA and their successors been one of them)that are given solid explanations (yes even our Legion with its nooks and crannies is solid). Modeling a company that has not suffient fluff behind it (every company really) is one thing. Tranmutting it into a loyalist fallen or cramming in a whole new company of Pre heresy marines is another. More so with a whole chapter.

And just to prove I am not an evil guy that wants to spoil your fun:

I do believe that the consecrator thing probably one day will be revieled to be just that: Loyalist fallen weapons and armor been reconsecrated for battlefield use. Just because the hipe over has grown and demands it.

I also convert for about six months an entire squad of corvus pattern armor and a couple of heresy pattern suits mixed in (bits, drills, GS and other parts not FW hence the delay). I call it squad 'ancients'. Their record is such that said squad has fought for a decade without a single casualty. Durring the Tyranid genestealer infestation of Hieronnia (a fictional chapter recruiting world that my in game avatar comes from, whos is not part of the squad BTW), they battled so fiercely that their armor and weapons were battered to the point where the techmarine accompanying them had no choice but to put them to rest (I.E. decomission them). However the governor seeing the storm that was about to hit the fan, 'remembered' a few power armored suits and gear (hence the old rogue trader plasma cannon and flamer I strapped them)he had hoarded in his personal collection and 'gifted' them to the space marines to help save his hairy you know what.

Anyway TLDR: Fluff streching is acceptable as long as it doesnt call for conflict with established fluff. My marines took their armor as prise for a pasification campaign (none knows or remembers not even the governor where said suits of the Legion came from). If a smugler in a BL book can have the spear of Dorn, a governor can have ten Heresy era marine suits right? Thats my justification to field an entire squad of them in a modern era 40k army.

My 2cs and I just point them out, not trying to convince anyone.

[Balthus Dire]

Brother Immolator, I'm loving our discussion and I definitely don't think you are out to spoil my fun, just reeling back my crazy theories!

 

I wasn't looking to field a whole company, just a squad - and I'd love them to be pre-heresy DAs, somehow lost to the warp, perhaps trying to chase the fallen into the warp after the loss of Caliban.

 

GW has given me the leeway to do so legally as Consecrators, but I think a squad of lost 'Legion of the Damned' style loyal pre-fall DAs would be awesome - IF ONLY OUR CHAPTER WAS A LITTLE MORE TRUSTING LOL.

 

That's why I was hoping I could find some lost hero in our fluff I could use as the Dreadnaught (and to gain the Inquisitor Chaplain's trust - or at least convince them not to use fatal interrogation techniques on the lost squad). If the squad turned up now with a cache of Fallen prisoners would this help?

 

The lost squad could be kept in the dark about the fallen quite easily - or...

 

If they fought in the fall of Caliban itself the Lost Squad would be the most deranged and beserk hunters of the fallen in the Chapter - they saw their own planet destroyed by Luther, and the Lion himself fall. NOTHING and no-one would stand in their way. A squad of ancient beserkers fighting for the memory of the planet they saw destroyed a week or so ago (in their eyes- Its been 10K years in reality!) would be bloodthirsty to say the least.

 

This would tie the Death Company BA army list selection perfectly, as I believe they would fight exactly like them, with nothing but the memory of the destruction of their world while lost in the warp, they'd be a little deranged when they arrived.

 

Thoughts? (And shoot the idea down if it deserves it brother, I'll just paint up some Consecrators LOL).

[Brother Immolator]

As I said before managable numbers lost in warp transit is completely plausible

Just have them attented by Asmodais 'tender' ministrations for awhile. This will help loose some screws of their brain a bit more

Thoughts? (And shoot the idea down if it deserves it brother, I'll just paint up some Consecrators LOL).

Thats the spirit after all ITS YOUR ARMY.

Have the emperor bow down to them if you have to :D

[DoggNewTrix]

 I would say between Asmodai and Zeke the "lost in the warp" marines would be cleansed enough to throw at the enemy.  A chappy dread, sure.  I could see the inner circle meeting.... Bah, they keep repenting, how am I supposed to torture a repentant soul that just wants to kill heretics for the Emperor?  Ah well, just leave em in the black armour, line up behind em, and let em go at it.  It's called ablative wounds, the Templars do it all the time

[Brother Immolator]

If you play them deathcompany style a chaplain in the unit to 'herd them' will be a very good fluffy justification of the 'reentegrated marines'. After all if they dont absolve themselves the chaplain will administer some Crozius headbanging.