Demus Ragnok Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 "A Space Marine chapter that's humanity's hope for survival is going to become numerous and start mass combat dropping on everything they can find. Ignore the Codex, ramp up recruitment, buy some guns from the Tau and go slaughter things." This comment was made in critique of an IA and the idea jumped out at me. What if a chapter became convinced that they were mankind's last hope. And were willing to do whatever was necessary to protect the Imperium. So I have three ideas to work out, 1 Increase recruitment without geneseed tithe issues that got Huron in trouble. 2 Procure some Tau guns and learn to use/manufacture them. (Plasma rifle support squads,railgun predators, will the Master of the Forge be willing to use xenos tech?) 3 Adapt organization to utilize greater numbers. How fast can a chapter grow and how large could a chapter out on the edge grow? Does there need to be a shift away from standard codex organization? Just my first ideas let me have your thoughts fraters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Sounds interesting though instead of buying guns from tau why not have it that your chapter joins the Tau believing the Greater Good is humanity's only hope it would probably help tie it in better after all an entire space marine chapter would be very valuable mercenaries to the Tau. The first point about recruitment could be interesting though siding with the tau would help alot as their superior technology might be useful plus the chapter will be able to make use of the Tau's large armies mainly the Kroot or fire warriors. After all Space Marines are battle brothers with Tau so why not use them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3324040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 Sounds interesting though instead of buying guns from tau why not have it that your chapter joins the Tau believing the Greater Good is humanity's only hope it would probably help tie it in better after all an entire space marine chapter would be very valuable mercenaries to the Tau. The first point about recruitment could be interesting though siding with the tau would help alot as their superior technology might be useful plus the chapter will be able to make use of the Tau's large armies mainly the Kroot or fire warriors. After all Space Marines are battle brothers with Tau so why not use them but no. I cannot suffer to create a chapter that is slaved to filthy xenos overlords. We will treat with the Tau only so long, and then 'em all. (Filthy xenos that is.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3324046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I would leave out the Tau stuff myself and go full on mass recruitment - then you just need decent industry to craft all their arms and armour. No point in having loads of marines if they don't have any guns is there? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3324126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialIssue Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Unless they have a way to conceal their numbers or can plausibly deny they knew they were over the 1000 marine chapter ceiling, then they will be accused of legion-building, a threat to the stability of the Imperium, excommunicated and stamped out. Will they keep defending the Imperium that will try to destroy them? Firstly, how will they build the numbers? The reason Huron got in trouble with his tithe was that he was using it to make marines, instead of giving it to the admech. You desperately need that geneseed to expand, and its quite obvious the tithe is in itself another method to control SM numbers, forcing them to give away a significant portion of their stocks. The Black Templars can get away with (likely) exceeding the limit in numbers as they are a hallowed Second-Founding chapter founded by the legendary Sigismund, with the enormous respect and political capital it brings. This allows the second factor to come into play - 'plausible deniability', in their case no matter how superficial. Their crusades are so spread out, and so often out of contact with one another that it is plausibly deniable that they know their true numbers - even though the de facto acknowledgment is that they probably exceed the limit. In this case, the Imperium looks the other way out of sheer political expediency and vague ignorance. But this is the only exception, and I would think the Imperium would keep it that way. If there were any other cases like this, we would have heard about the chapter in question. Personally, I can only see the expansion of a SM chapter ending as it did in the Badab War, or worse. The Imperium will not tolerate so-called 'legion-building'. Its basically everything the codex astartes was meant to combat. Not to mention their usage of Tau heretek... This does not stop the chapter from going renegade though so there's some wiggle room there. If the Imperium doesn't like it, then screw 'em. They just need to be mobile or hidden enough to escape the eternal hunt, and remember that it's a subsistence living on the run - it is improbable anything other than basic technology can be manufactured, and they'd have to resort to piracy and theft like all other renegades. It'd be hard to justify they'd be anywhere as well equipped as other chapters without a deus ex machina/plot device (e.g. an ancient forge-ship that can manufacture plasma technology, machine spirits, Terminator armour and capital ships as well as gather/refine/alloy all the exotic materials used in their construction). Maybe the renegade techmarines are savants in one particular area (e.g. pulse weaponry), which they painstakingly recreate with carefully gathered resources. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3324176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShasVa Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Boltguns could have ammunition made that would function similar to Tau pulse weapons. It could function like regular Boltguns, except that instead of having a traditional explosive head once penetration occurs, it instead releases a "plasma explosion", similar to how Pulse Rifle ammo turns into a plasma-state once they leave the weapon's barrel.Food for thought, anyways! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3324563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 What if they are rather like the Carcharodons. They have all the correct papers but nobody has seen or heard from them in resent memory. Things get hard for the forces defending planet NoName,( dim orks is tuff). And then task force Frag'em All of chapter Kill'em All show up, mass combat drop, and slaughter dim orkses left,right and center. Pack their toys, take some recruits, (deuces), and "disappear into the night." This does sound like the Templars (curses)! Must. Be. Original. (rubs beard) I can live without Tau weapons. But I already had an idea for a story about an infiltration team armed with rail rifles. Warboss, (bang, crack, thump) what warboss? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3324579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 If they truly believe that they are the last best hope for humanity then they will be running themselves ragged. Their numbers are all over the place. Each company could set out from their homeworld with 200+ marines and not stop running around killingall of the things until they hit near terminal attrition and have to go back whilst there is still someone left who can hand over the salvaged gear, bodies and report-chronicles. Each company sets out the moment it is ready and the moment a distress signal is heard, and there is always a war somewhere. And they never conclude a campaign and make it home without hearing another dozen distress signals. So they set out, bounce from one war to another. Round trip time from the original mission was 6-8 months. It took them nearly 30 years. They only came back because their number hit single figures. The remnants are then absorbed into the company that gets founded to replace them. Then they do it all over again. heir recruitment rate is stupidly high for a chapter. Where they the Dark Angels or Ultramarines they would have a Legion by now. As it is they just about break even with the mortality rate. Power Armour would be analogous to earlier models. A bit substandard compared to Mk VII and VIII but the older ones were quicker to build, maintain and patch together out of salvaged parts. No fancy stuff. They need huge quantities of adequate quality not adequate quantities of high quality. Dark rumours abound around them of how they pillage the bodies of dead astartes of other chapters for gear and progenoids. How they abduct novices, aspirants and children promised to other chapters. Some even darkly whisper how they have plundered materials from dead astartes who held oaths toheathen gods. Their numbers? Could be anywhere between 200 and 4,000. Given the rates of attrition and the slowness of news travelling its hard to say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3325757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerbjørn Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 If they believe they are humanity's last best hope (I'#m totally saying this in my head in Ivanova's voice), then they would have to go renegade, as working within the boundaries of the IoM will not save much. They would also have to be legion strangth to have a noticeable impact. And if they treated with the Tau or just stole their weapons and wanted to use them, then they would very swiftly get the cold shoulder from the Mechanicus. The Dark Mechanicus might be happy to help them out though, so back to the renegade thing... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3325794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 If they truly believe that they are the last best hope for humanity then they will be running themselves ragged. Their numbers are all over the place. Each company could set out from their homeworld with 200+ marines and not stop running around killing all of the things until they hit near terminal attrition and have to go back whilst there is still someone left who can hand over the salvaged gear, bodies and report-chronicles. Each company sets out the moment it is ready and the moment a distress signal is heard, and there is always a war somewhere. And they never conclude a campaign and make it home without hearing another dozen distress signals. So they set out, bounce from one war to another. Round trip time from the original mission was 6-8 months. It took them nearly 30 years. They only came back because their number hit single figures. The remnants are then absorbed into the company that gets founded to replace them. Then they do it all over again. heir recruitment rate is stupidly high for a chapter. Where they the Dark Angels or Ultramarines they would have a Legion by now. As it is they just about break even with the mortality rate. Power Armour would be analogous to earlier models. A bit substandard compared to Mk VII and VIII but the older ones were quicker to build, maintain and patch together out of salvaged parts. No fancy stuff. They need huge quantities of adequate quality not adequate quantities of high quality. Dark rumours abound around them of how they pillage the bodies of dead astartes of other chapters for gear and progenoids. How they abduct novices, aspirants and children promised to other chapters. Some even darkly whisper how they have plundered materials from dead astartes who held oaths to heathen gods. Their numbers? Could be anywhere between 200 and 4,000. Given the rates of attrition and the slowness of news travelling its hard to say. This. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3325872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I can see a Chapter low on supplies selling their services to the Tau Empire. Particularly if they have a prior agreement to be used by said Tau Empire against, and only against, [iNSERT HATED FOE HERE]. Plus, you'd get to do some cool conversions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3325879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Dammit, if you're going to steal my hilarious quotes and build IAs around them, attribute them! I give ecritter credit for his typo that (finally) gave me an idea for the Stone Hearts. I'm not sure if he WANTS me to, but that's another issue. As the guy who said that - it was almost certainly going to end in being renegades. Though soddinnutter's assessment seems like a good one, and would make a good chapter. Renegade-ness would depend on the degree of fervor with which they see themselves as mankind's last hope, and how they view the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3325917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Dammit, if you're going to steal my hilarious quotes and build IAs around them, attribute them! <img data-cke-saved-src="http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png" src="http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png" class="bbc_emoticon" title=":P" /> I give ecritter credit for his typo that (finally) gave me an idea for the Stone Hearts. I'm not sure if he WANTS me to, but that's another issue. <img data-cke-saved-src="http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/msn-wink.gif" src="http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/msn-wink.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" title=";)" /><br /><br />As the guy who said that - it was almost certainly going to end in being renegades. Though soddinnutter's assessment seems like a good one, and would make a good chapter.<br /><br />Renegade-ness would depend on the degree of fervor with which they see themselves as mankind's last hope, and how they view the Imperium. Ahh I was wondering how long it would take you to notice. Maybe I can do the idea justice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272520-for-mankind-no-matter-the-price/#findComment-3325927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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