tomsev Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 so from what i read in my codex is i can have a 5 man power armour command squad armed with 5 plasma guns and at the same time still have both an apothecarie and a company champion as from what i read for both upgrades you only have to swap out one weapon( for the company champion its the chainsword for a blade of caliban and combat shield, and for the apothecarie its the bolt pistol) so i can get a five man command squad armed with 5 plasma guns and 2 characters... am i wrong??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s12demon Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 its unclear. Depends on what order upgrades get taken in and whether you can take a weapon then another upgrade (champ/apoth) which replaces the other weapon. Ork faq suggests you can but Blood angels( i think) says you cant. Til GW give us an faq answer for the DA comm sq there's no definate answer on this one imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 dont forget in the old codex we could do this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 dont forget in the old codex we could do this...That is a bit of a non issue, different codex, different edition and all that.That been said the apothecary and the champion are given different status given their upgrades and come stock with what they have (I.E. blade of caliban, combat shield/chainsword, nathrcium respectively) since they no longer are 'veterans' so you cant swap their equipment. But then you have the Ork codex faq in regards to nobz and the shoota boyz, were it is stated that you can pull it through. Namely to exchange the weapons for a big shoota and THEN making him a Nob and he keeps it...Then again thats a different codex.... Its confusing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upstartes Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 This is very controversial. If you go with the advantageous interpretation you describe, expect fights with some opponents and possible rulings against you from tournament judges. Going with the more conservative interpretation will ensure smooth sailing until it gets FAQ'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizara Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 you can take a command squad, you can have two characters, and you might be able to take 5 plasmaguns. First you take the champion, he swaps his chainsword for the shield and blade, but he still has a pistol which you upgrade to a plasma gun if he was a veteran. The apothecary swaps the pistol for the narthecium, but then swaps his chainsword for the plasmagun if he was a veteran still. (note the champion has no combat weapon, so he smacks people with his plasmagun and narthecium which only looks like a cool mini chainsword attached to his fist). Then your other 3 guys take a plasmagun each probably in place of their pistols. You still have the option of taking a standard on one of them, as well as swapping their chainsword for something else, as well as still being able to give any veteran except for the champion and apothecary meltabombs and stormshields, as they are no longer veterans, but different unit types now that they are upgrade, which again is bogus wording issues on GW's part. The whole veteran wording makes it where the apothecary and champion techincally get no other upgrades since they are upgraded from being veterans, and thus are no longer veterans. That means if you take the champion, you can't give him the shield upgrade which is really needed for him anyways, and it also means your apothecary can't get any weapon upgrades if you upgrade him, which is also pointless because he then has no shooting and a crappy combat weapon. That being said, it will be pricy but yes you can have a small unit attached to your HQ chock full of plasma goodness with a field no pain save to compensate for getting hot rolls, and two characters to accept challenges with, although why would you want to accept the challenge with the apothecary anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Take 5 plasma guns and an SofF or 4 and an Apoth; if your squad is pimped for shooting you do not need our mediocre Champ because he will not help in any great measure, and imho the Apoth points are better spent toward a Standard to buff CC units nearby that can shield you from CC harm (10 CC focused Vets with your Warlord attached spring to mind). Focus the squad, there are only 5 dudes, if you try to do many roles you will end up doing none. And should you decide to take Chump and Doc; use three Melta guns instead of Plasma so you can shoot hard things before charging. stobz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Its not that confusing. If the squad you end up with includes options on a model which can't legally take them, then its not a legal build. i.e. If you have an Apothecary in your squad with a plasmagun, and compare that to the list of options available to an Apothecary (which are none) you'll see that he isn't armed legally. Order of operations doesn't enter into it, if the final configuration of a squad includes models with options which aren't listed as legal options for them then it isn't a legal/valid build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Its not bogus wording Midnight Angel, the wording is clear. The apoth and champion have no access to the wargear, period. The only question remaining is if there is a segmented time frame on the upgrades taken or if everything happens simultaneusly. I.E. Take the plasma gun and then upgrade to champion. In the Ork FAQ (Another codex) the answer technically is that upgrades are taken in a segmented time frame. Hence the Nob with the big choppa. However its another codex and uless stated we cant be sure. QUOTING TO CLARIFY: Q: if a boyz mob exchange sluggas and choppas with shootas can a Nob take a power klaw or a big choppa? A: You may upgrade a Nob to have a big choppa or power klaw before (emphasis mine) you choose to upgrade the mob to shootas, in which case the nob is not affected by the mobs weapon swap (as he no longer has a choppa to swap) does not recive a shoota and keeps his slugga and power klaw/big choppa instead. TLDR: Upgrades in the Ork codex happen in a segmented time frame. If that is the case for all codices then all can preform the same shenanigans. Models that dont have access to said weapons at first glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Its not that confusing. If the squad you end up with includes options on a model which can't legally take them, then its not a legal build. i.e. If you have an Apothecary in your squad with a plasmagun, and compare that to the list of options available to an Apothecary (which are none) you'll see that he isn't armed legally. Order of operations doesn't enter into it, if the final configuration of a squad includes models with options which aren't listed as legal options for them then it isn't a legal/valid build. ^ This anything else is just breaking the rules in my opinion. I wish it was different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 ok then its a no no thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 There is nothing breaking the rules yet, it could be either way its just not clear yet. That said I agree not to model them that way, best er on the side of caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 i hope we will be able to do this could be cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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