Blood Angels : The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Evening gentlemen!

 

I am a 40k veteran and I will be putting together a Blood Angel army. I've spent some time mulling over the army, but I'd like to crowd source some information from players with more experience than I have on the subject.

 

The Good.

Name 3 units that you find to work well and are core to the success of the Blood angels on the battlefield. Why are they important to have?

 

The Bad.

Name 3 units that you find just cannot work within the army. Overcost, underpowered, not enough utility or something else just does it better?

 

The Ugly.

The Ugly is the unit you should avoid at all costs, usually because it's terribly unbalanced and does not make for a good game experience for both players.

 

Let's see what crops up, looking forward to reading up!

[tomjoad]

I don't expect you'll get a lot of consensus on these, but here's my 2 cents (or in this case, 3):

 

The Good:

 

Fragioso in a drop pod with heavy flamer - At 170 points (or a few more if you add a Magna Grapple) you get a true engine of death. Drop in the midst of enemy deployment and not only do you have a good shot at first blood, but you'll get to revel as missiles and plasma shots plink off his AV13 front. Unlike typical 'distraction units' this one has a pretty fair chance to survive and keep 'distracting' beyond the first turn.

 

Baal Predator: I have gone on about my love for this unit in plenty of threads. That TL assault cannon can get anywhere and either damage or destroy almost anything.

 

Stormraven: Point for point, it may be only the 3rd best flier in the game, but it has more versatility than a hell turkey or vendetta, having the tools available to drop tanks, fliers, or infantry. Heaviest armor of any flier, PotMS, ceramite plating; this can do it all.

 

The Bad (I don't use units I think are bad, but these opinions are based on theory and how they would likely work in my lists):

 

Mephiston: 250 points is mental. He is slow and lonely. Even Wings can be shut down by Tyranids, Eldar, or Wolves. His potential damage output is high, but he's only one model.

 

Land Raiders: Again, all your eggs in one basket. BA's are a low model count army without TMC or Paladin style endurance. We can be messing around with this junk.

 

Stormravens with passengers: This is a great battle plan for people who enjoy losing 400-500 points when an av12 vehicle gets gets exploded.

 

The Ugly (I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, but here goes):

 

Death Company with jump packs: 35 points each for models with 1W and no invulnerable? Yeah right...

 

Death Company in a drop pod: Over 200 points for a CC unit that gets shot to pieces before charging? Yeah right...

 

Death Company in a Stormraven: As always with Death Company, 10 or so of them on the charge always win. The cost of getting them into combat is too high and too unreliable though, unfortunately.

[ianj253]

I disagree with tomjoad on a few points.

 

First off Mephiston is a beast and there is a reason almost every competitive BA list includes him. He may be one model, but he's a model that can kill far over his point value. He can pretty much kill anything bar 2+ save models. He'll murder infantry and slaps tanks like it's no big deal. If you think he's too slow put him in a raven and fly him to his destination.

 

Next is on transporting models in a raven. There are certain models that can take the hit of the SR explosion. One is mephiston and another is dreadnoughts.  Furioso dreads are nice to tote in a raven. You can drop them off to clear an objective late game. 

 

Now onto the Death company. DC can be absolute killing machines and even in a pod they can do some serious damage. Not only can they put the hurt on your opponent, but I've found players make irrational decisions when facing them. Use DC in a pod with bolters as a distraction and allow some of the pressure to be taken off the rest of your army. 

 

Here's a recent threat on DC and CAG makes some good suggestions and he also linked a good discussion on drop pod DC from a few months back. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272528-moving-dc-the-best-way/

[Ushtarador]

I will write this from a competitive viewpoint. edit:/ Now that I finished writing this list, I am really pleased to realize that only few of the units in our codex are outright bad/ugly, and that I could field most of them even in a competitive army if I had to.

 

The Good:

 

Mephiston: He's a one-man army and the smallest monstrous creature in the game. He's incredibly mobile and has an insane statline even without psychic powers. He basically counters everything that doesn't wear terminator armour (except maybe large hordes of gaunts and boyz).

 

Stormraven: Arguably the best flyer in the game, deals enormous amounts of damage, reliably deals with a lot of your problems and even carries dreadnoughts and small scoring units around.

 

Variable: The third good depends on your army, so I'll just list 2 options. I usually run a large base of ASM, so if that's your style I would go with the sanguinary priest, because FnP is really good now. Another strong option is the aforementioned Furioso with frag cannon, heavy flamer, magna grapple and drop pod, which kills a lot of stuff and is a real pain to deal with if you don't have enough melta around.

 

 

The Bad:

 

Tacticals: I can't get these guys to work in a BA army. They are slow, they are relatively expensive, and you need 10 guys to equip them with special weapons. I hate them.

 

Furioso Librarian: He's expensive and dies way too quickly, now that we have hullpoints. He isn't bad enough to be in the ugly, but just not that good (anymore).

 

HS Dreadnoughts: They are not that cheap, devastators are more survivable now and predators are way more mobile. I don't like them.

 

The ugly:

Now this section depends on your wording. You asked for stuff that make for a bad game experience, and that strongly depends on the opponents army. Mephiston and especially the stormraven may well belong in this section as well, if you wish to play nice games. Again from a competitive viewpoint, I'd go with the following:

 

Captains/Tycho: They are bad, take librarians instead.

 

CC honor guard: Too expensive for what they do, almost everything can do this job better.

 

Bike squadrons: Way too expensive, die too easily, don't really deal damage and can't even score. Assault marines do the same job better and cheaper.

[DutchSage]

The good:

 

1. Furioso Dreadnought with Frag launchers and heavy flamer in a drop pod. Drop this one down (or preferably 2) and see the enemy infantry crumble. Easily the best option available in a Blood Angels army.

 

2. Stormraven Gunship. Nice punch and requisite if you don't have IG allies (aka blob + Vendetta's) or play with Forgeworld models.

 

3. Assault Marines. Fast, scoring troop choice, what's not to like.

 

The Bad

 

1. Every named HQ choice. Seriously they are all severely overcosted/underpowered. The rest of the HQ section is bad as well, but since we are forced to have a HQ you are best of with either a Librarian or Reclusiarch.

 

2. Sanguinary Priest. 6th edition truly hit these guys hard. Less vehicles means they need a jump pack, increasing their cost even more. Add the lower FnP save and the loss of the initiative bonus of furious charge in combination with precision shots and I have a hard time seeing their benefit over just more models.

 

3. Scout Squads. They're mostly used for backfield objective sitting, but since they add close to zero long ranged firepower (1 missile launcher at BS3, not counting sniper rifles because they don't really do anything to anything) you are better off using assault marines with a transport as they are more durable and can at least defend their backfield objective a bit.

 

The Ugly

 

I think there is only 1 unit that should be avoided (in competitive play) and there really isn't anything in the Blood Angels codex that truly is powerfull enough to make the gaming experience of your opponent not good. So here is he is, I single him out because many people still use him and I think that is more of 5th edition nostalgia and not being familiar what a 250 point without the independant character rule should be able to do (looking at you Mr Bloodthirster):

 

Mephiston. Any competitive list has a hard counter against this guy. Be it in the form of mauling him in close combat or simply keeping him busy. 6th edition not only hit him hard, it completely demolished this guy. Independant characters with a 2+ save can just keep him occupied indefinately thanks to the reroll they receive from their squad, and with the removal of no retreat wounds blobs are very effective at keeping him busy as well. Not even mentioning Shadow in the Warp / Runes of Warding that can neuter him even more.

[Ushtarador]

Sanguinary Priest. 6th edition truly hit these guys hard. Less vehicles

means they need a jump pack, increasing their cost even more. Add the

lower FnP save and the loss of the initiative bonus of furious charge in

combination with precision shots and I have a hard time seeing their

benefit over just more models.

 

I hear that argument a lot, but I think it is not justified at all. I run 20 ASM with a priest in almost every game, and the FnP is invaluable against so many things. Also, the priest can carry an additional power weapon that is hard to kill as long as your sergeant accepts challenges. I have never lost a priest to precision shots yet, few HQ's can shoot hard and then you always have a 2+ LoS. I'm very positive that FnP has saved more than 5 models in every game I've played yet.

If you don't play at least 20 jumpers as a core, I would not field him, but if you play a strong infantry-base, he is very strong.

 

 

Mephiston. Any competitive list has a hard counter against this guy.

 

While that might be true, no hardcounter will ever catch mephiston if you play it right. Any real cc-character could kill Mephi in 5th edition as well, if you ever got into CC with him. This may sound harsh, but if you feel Mephiston is bad in 6th, you just don't know how to play him.

[AngelsWithBaals]

Good: 

 

+1 Fragioso in pod

+1 Storm Raven

+1 Mephiston (even just for the psychological factor)

+1 DC

+1 Sternguard with FNP

+1 Fast Vindies and Baals

+1 Cheap devs.

 

Bad:

 

-1 RAS (used to run 2 as auto include, now 1 for counter charge and escort priest/mephy) This edition hit them hard...

-1 Jump packs on DC

-1 Light mech. spam

 

Ugly:

 

-2 Almost all HQ options

-2 over costed whirlwind (not that I'd run them anyway...)

-2 HS dreads

 

Call me an optimist, but I think we still have some decent options.  My local meta isn't uber competitive net list spam crazy though... I think our main problem is most of our stuff is over costed for what it does compared to other (mostly newer) books.  If our points were brought in line with the DA book (65pt libbies hell ya!!! and cheaper troops), I think we could be competitive with a few tweaks to outdated rules.  On a side note, 15pts per jump pack on DC, the travesty!!!

[tomjoad]

The best finishing Blood Angels at the recent BAO was 62nd out of 144. I don't know that he used Mephiston, but I'm not sure we should be emulating the wisdom that you need Mephy if that's the sort of results we're getting.

 

It's just not a very strong codex right now, but including one model that costs that much that a competent foe should be able to neutralize only exacerbates all our problems.

[I am Legion]

I can only include something in the Good Section as I am typing this on the run...

 

A combination of 3 Bal pred with assault cannons and heavy bolters, accompanied by two storm Ravens, and one vindicator.....i don't know...lately I've been running this list, and I havent been losing :P

Keep a couple assault squads for countering, or a DC in one of the ravens with a dread, and you have all of your angles covered.  I actually do like having one tactical squad at 170 points split to hold two objectives whilethe rest of the army keeps the enemy nice and occupied :P

[Drunken Angel]

Good

Baals, with twin linked assault cannons, always a good idea they threaten anything the only thing better is adding heavy bolters.

Stormravens, best value flyer around use it with hurricane bolter sponsons usually empty but you can hide troops in it as well. take a libby casting shield you never have to jink and get a cover save on blasts if it gets shot down

Multimelta Attack Bikes, simple they push the armour to the back of the board a give the Ravens an extra turn of shooting

 

Bad

Scouts

DC Tycho

Anyhting that moves less than 12 inches in movement phase, BA are a fast army

 

Ugly

We dont have anything unbalanced that makes for a bad experience

[Memento Of Prospero]

<p>***EDIT***  will start another thread for the other topic.</p>

[Captain Death Crunch]

Good topic. I think this all depends entirely on the "theme" of your army. But here are what I think are 3 overall choices for each:

Good:

- Assault Squads - Highly mobile troop choice = High probability of outmaneuvering your opponent. Allows you to more often than not dictate where things happen. These guys will win foot races at the end of the game to capture objectives 9 times out of 10. People make the mistake of thinking these guys are supposed to dominate close combat though. (On a side note, I think Death Co. with JPs can be nasty tough! Even with just bolt pistols/chainswords, 12" movement with 5 attacks on the charge, with re-rolls to hit and wound if you have a Chaplain/Reclusiarch...they will annihilate stuff fast!)
- Multi-Melta Attack Bikes - Drunken Angel is right: these guys can really push your opponent away (or force them to go all out to take them out). Want to keep enemy vehicles far away from your main force? Bring in these.

- Sanguinary Priests - They really are a must have to make our units more survivable. Putting one with 3 MM attack bikes makes them pretty tough too. In my opinion Feel No Pain is better in 6th edition (works even on power swords and plasma!). They can make a real difference in a game, especially if you're fighting a difficult-to-kill army like Necrons, which can become a war of attrition (good luck winning that without Feel No Pain!).

 

Bad:

- Baals - Most BA players love Baals. Honestly, I don't see how an Assault Cannon (even if twin-linked) can do much against vehicles with armor above 11. Even with rear 11 armor (i.e. Necron and some IG vehicles), you need a 5 to glance. Heavy bolters won't help you much with that either. If you don't roll well, you can see your Baal go bye bye very quickly, since they're most likely going to be within melta/charging range of something. They can be good in certain situations, but I just don't think they're as great (especially not as anti-tank) as people say. With the (mandatory) Heavy Bolters, for the same price you can get a Vindicator. Granted, it's pretty cool to be a Fast Scout vehicle. Also, I don't play competively, so maybe in that environment they do well.

- The Sanguinor - WAY too expensive for a guy with only 3 wounds and Toughness 4! Can't get through 2+ armor either. Not an independent character. No thanks.

- Sanguinary Guard - These guys might be good in certain situations, but I think they're way too expensive for a unit with no invulnerable save and can only take 5 per squad. If you could add guys, like in Terminator Squads, then they would be worth looking at. But you can't. And Weapon Skill 4 is bad for a supposedly elite combat squad. And it's a shame, because the models are really cool.

 

Ugly

- Razorback (spam) - 90 points for a twin-linked lascannon/assault cannon shot on an armor 11/11/10 vehicle...First of all, why would you shoot your transport vehicle (which can only carry 6 guys!) when you should be plowing full steam ahead towards the action! 24" after going flat out is something that you should always be using. Sometimes it might be better to hang back, granted, but that 11 armor (10 rear) isn't going to last very long. Next thing you know you wasted 90 points on a shot you didn't get to use (or did and couldn't hit/pen) and your assault squad is now slogging it because you took away their jump packs. These things are a waste! Take jump packs instead and use cover.

 

- Whirlwind - Too expensive for something that won't kill MEQ armies and takes up a Heavy Support slot. Ally with Dark Angels and get it for cheaper if you really want it (who cares if it isn't a Fast Tank). Otherwise, consider something else.

 

- Bike and Scout Bike Squads - If you want more bikes, go Ravenwing (as Allies or main force). We're Blood angels...we use jump packs!

[Erasmus of Baal]

Next Chapter would : Army Compositions.

 

How many army styles have you been successful with? What composition do you think works best overall, which has a interesting niche, what counters them, what do they counter.

 

Which composition do you enjoy the most and have fun with?

Also, would it be better to start another thread for the second subject?

Given Captain Death Crunch's reply, I'd say that the answer is a resounding "yes."

[tomjoad]

If that's how you meant The Ugly, then nothing fits. There are no easily or frequently spammed things in C:BA. You can spam AV13, which I suggest is the best way to win with this book, but few people do that and it's easy enough to counter that I don't think it will anger people. Also, because you're using 2 or three different units, it doesn't really look like traditional spamming.

 

Also, the concensus seems to be that named characters stink, but some people will defend Mephiston or Capt. Tycho (definitely not DC Tycho, though).

 

What I've read somewhere is that this is a 40% codex right now...not much is really terrible, but as a whole, it's hard to make a list that should win more than 40% of games (given equal opponents). That sounds about right to me.

[Memento Of Prospero]

After another session of codex crunching, looking into what the esteemed posters of this forum have put in, here's my take on what I see. Note that I haven't had much of a chance to play any games, just relying on my experience in the hobby.

 

The Good

- Sanguinary Priests. Truly amazing. If you look carefully at how much the other armies pay for feel no pain alone for a single unit, you'll find it's in the neighhood of 30+ points. Running a tight formation stringing models , you can get a good coverage and cover 3 units. You have the added advantage of Independent character status, giving him a 2+ look out sir! Much harder to snipe than a painboy, apothecary or iconbearer (slaanesh)

 

It is also good to note that aura wargear works while inside a transport, and the aura is mesure from the hull. Just park your landraider sideways to double the coverage =)

 

- Death Company. They put khorne bezerkers to shame with their damage potential and flexibility. Even though they do not score, they can still contest and are a troop choice. It's like bringing a snow plow to a go-kart event.

 

- Assault Squads. The bread and butter of the army. The only viable scoring unit in the codex(asides for sanguine guard under Dante). Squads of 10 really pack a punch, and easier to keep within 6 of the sanguinary priest.

 

The Bad.

 

- Tactical Squads. I cannot see why tactical squads are so restrictive and stiff. They feel out of place in the codex.

 

- Bikers. That 4th/5th Ed pricing on them makes them just unplayable.

 

- Sanguinary guard. This one is a double wammy. They have gorgeous models and awrevery close to being worth taking. But the fact that their weapons are two handed, and strike last for AP 2 is just not worth the price tag. No flexibility in unit size hurts them too.

 

 

The Ugly

 

There's only one thing really that comes to mind:

 

- Mephiston. Playing him will open the can of worms most of the time. There are ways to deal with him, but not everyone has access to them, or are willing to just field a unit just incase they play against Mephiston. He's a huge investment that makes or breaks your army under 2,000 points. I personally do not like to rely on a single character to pull games through.

[SamaNagol]

It's so funny to see things being in half of your Good lists and half of your Bad/Ugly lists in the same thread.

 

All this has proven is there is no real consensus and that BA is a dex in real flux at the moment. People just can't agree on many of the choices

[Memento Of Prospero]

It's so funny to see things being in half of your Good lists and half of your Bad/Ugly lists in the same thread.

 

All this has proven is there is no real consensus and that BA is a dex in real flux at the moment. People just can't agree on many of the choices

 

A lack of consensus does not mean anything. What works for some, simply does not work for others. An army that has a single consensus is truly boring.

[TheSauce]

 

It's so funny to see things being in half of your Good lists and half of your Bad/Ugly lists in the same thread.

 

All this has proven is there is no real consensus and that BA is a dex in real flux at the moment. People just can't agree on many of the choices

 

A lack of consensus does not mean anything. What works for some, simply does not work for others. An army that has a single consensus is truly boring.

 

^ This. I feel that BA is a very finesse army. With low model count and high mobility across the board, it's more about picking fights and outplaying your opponent than just running a "power" list and winning.

 

Here is my 7 cents:

 

Good:

 

Assault Marines - 12" movement, can crush non-cc squads, and are fast enough to avoid most CC squads. I like the option to combat squad the two meltas to drop into the opponents backfield T2 and blow stuff up.

 

Priests - FNP is golden. Especially if you're running foot troops. It's the only save you can get against things that normally just eat up marines (Hellturkeys, for one). For an army that is low on model count, that extra 33% survivability is really needed. And you can abuse the 6" bubble to get 2 or 3 squads with one priest.

 

Attack Bikes - Have great synergy with the ASM/Priest combo - FNP, 5+ cover and T5 are hard to kill, and they're cheap, give you some more nice anti tank/TEQ/MC and can soak up overwatch fire on the charge if needed. Pretty much a must-include for me.

 

Bad -

 

Named HQs - Mephy can be an exception here (he's a beast), but the other's are pretty bad, lacking EW and sacrificing high initiatives with Axes. Really no comparison to the standard Libby with Jump pack.

 

Vanguard Veterans - I want them to be good soooooo badly, but it's not worth 35 pts/model to get to charge on the drop.

 

DC w/Jump Packs - speaking of 35 pts per model. Too expensive and not survivable, and once you tell your opponent what they'll do if they get the charge, they'll be focuses down immediately.

 

Ugly -

 

Stormravens - Kind of a good/ugly thing here. Amazing flier, I wouldn't leave home without it, and has won me several games for sure. That said, it can totally dominate the game if your opponent doesn't have good anti-air (even a quadgun has a hard time hurting it). That can make a unhappy opponent and a not-fun game (especially if you bring more than one).

 

There isn't anything else in our codex that feels "ugly" by your definition.

 

In general, most everything is usable in the right situation. It's more about picking the units you like and finding the right situation to use each unit to it's strengths.

[Sanguine Eternal]

Ok, so when I first started collecting BA, I think it was back in 3rd edition, I loved the cc nature of them, the death company, chaplains, getting into combat ASAP etc...  But things have changed.  I took a long break from the hobby, and didn't play any 5th ed games, so I don't really know what they were like in the previous edition.  I think the reason why everyone can't agree on certain things is that they maybe haven't had good success with certain units, and how they gel with others.  Just because my cc lists lose all the time, does not mean that the units themselves are bad.  It's a combination of how you use them obviously, and what you are up against.  Their are other armies out their that just do cc better, and when you're pitted against them, odds are you will lose.

In terms of Good/Bad units.  I don't think the codex has any bad units apart from some character nerfs with power axes striking at I1.  I've never really been keen on paying outrageous amounts of points for characters anyway.  Sure they have good stats, but not for me.

 

My favorite combo is Priests FnP bubble, Libby w/ prescience cast on sternguard.  So effective.

 

My current list has 1 Term Libby, 3 (10)Tacticals, 1 (10)Scout Snipers, 1(10) Sternguard, Corbs and 2 Priest, and 3 (5) Dev squads.

It has had great success against a variety of lists,  I know its not a typical BA list, but, with this edition, I have adapted to change.  I love my BA, and I don't want to play another army.  Yes the Tactical squads are slow, yes other chapters can use them better, but they work (for me).  They are still marines with FC, FnP, and Prescience.  I can't count how many times I've snap shot my heavy weapons and hit their target when I've needed to advance.  I am still getting roughly 40 shots a turn with bolters, excluding rapid fire range.  Regardless of your armour save, I'm inflicting a decent amount of casualties.  Against fliers, 11 ML/4LC... 6's will be rolled.

So, as far as 6th edition goes.  I have had 0 wins with a straight cc list, but some close games.  Majority of my games with my infantry list has been 1 sided in my favor, and a few close games, and have had a few good, fun 50/50 games with a hybrid list, and a few that were 1 sided in my favor.

 

[Drunken Angel]

I took 2 Ravens, 2 Baals, 3 Attack Bikes 1 Priest 20 RAS (I think or 30?) and a Vindicator to 5th in a 40 player tourney 4 weeks ago.  I came in behind Demon Flamer Screamer spam, Cronair with Wraiths and Chaos/Demons.   I took the Sanguinor and would have been better with a bog standard libby.

[Rutzah]

 I feel that BA is a very finesse army. With low model count and high mobility across the board, it's more about picking fights and outplaying your opponent than just running a "power" list and winning.

 

Couldnt agree more.

 

The Good:

 

Mephiston: I see people arguing a lot about him, no invu, 250pts too much, no EW, but i still think he is a beast. Highly competitive imo and the answer to a lot of things.

 

Priests: I prefer the new FnP rule to be honest and yes i agree with sauce, they are golden. FnP has saved me numerous times, auto-include for me if i roll with assault marines. Dont forget FC too.

 

Death Company in a Pod: Same cost as normal marines with all their scary special rules plus bolters, plus they are like "loyal" zerkers. They have to be played carefully though, but if you get used to them, i think they can be really beneficial for certain lists.

 

The Bad:

 

Tacticals: I cant seem to fit them in any of my lists. I think they are not designed to fit in the BA codex. I would rather take SW allies and get Grey Hunters, cheaper, MUCH better and they have CC weapons too.

 

Most of our HQs: Besides Mephi, libbies and Dante, the rest of our HQs compared to these guys, do not justify their points.

 

Stormravens: Yes stormravens. Maybe its only me and due to my local "meta". Most people here play with either full infantry lists, or full flier lists. Thats why i must take at least 2 of them to make them work. 400+ points just to counter flier lists, no thanks. I would rather take aegis and/or DA allies with flak missiles.

 

 

The Ugly:

 

Death Company with JPs: 35pts per model is just too expensive. It might be just fair though, because they are really scary as their are. I can see people spamming them if they were any cheaper with JPs, bolters and infernus pistols.

 

Non-Furioso Dreads: aka HS dreads. They just make no sense to me for a BA army.

 

Thats all i think. Of course in The Good section, belong all our fast vehicles, attack bikes, Furioso/DC dreads, honour guard, sanguinary guard etc. It depends on what you want to play with, whats your local meta like and what do you want to achieve. Anything could work for different people, i would suggest to pick some units you like, and give them all a try in different lists.

[tomjoad]

I'm seeing a few people comparing Death Company to Berzerkers as if that makes them good...Are there people out there I don't know about actually using Berzerkers? Winning with them? Against real competition?

 

Both units have the same problem: They can't get into combat reliably without either getting shot to pieces first or using a Land Raider. At least Berzerkers have Counter-Attack so they aren't useless when getting charged (which DC nearly are). DC being able to carry bolters instead of pistols is a significant buff, but it doesn't address their core weakness. If the 6th edition codex, whenever it comes, changes nothing about DC except the cost of their jump packs I'll be happy.

[Ushtarador]

I'm seeing a few people comparing Death Company to Berzerkers as if that makes them good

 

I don't think the comparison is very accurate either - DC are actually better. The main use for DC in my opinion is to drop pod them in the opponents flank with bolters and some hidden power weapons (which also solves the problem of them not getting into CC).

If you think about it, 20pts for 2 attacks, FnP and WS5 is not very expensive, and they beat most things in CC even if they get charged. Combine them with another podded unit like a fragioso and you create quite a tough choice for your opponent (and draw a lot of fire from the rest of your advancing force).

You have to build your list around them, but they can be very effective that way.

[Rutzah]

I didnt mean to compare them stats-like, i just think of them as loyal zerkers fluffwise, because of their black rage thingy driving them mad and the likes and their scary profile. They are much better than zerkers with 2 attacks, relentless + bolters and built in FnP.

 

I completely agree with you Ushtarador. When i use them, they are only in Pods. I have also used them in a Rhino, and flat out like a kamikazi, taking a lot of shots off the rest of my vehicles, but it really slows down their assault, so yeah, only in Pods nowadays.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I'm seeing a few people comparing Death Company to Berzerkers as if that makes them good...Are there people out there I don't know about actually using Berzerkers? Winning with them? Against real competition?

 

Both units have the same problem: They can't get into combat reliably without either getting shot to pieces first or using a Land Raider. At least Berzerkers have Counter-Attack so they aren't useless when getting charged (which DC nearly are). DC being able to carry bolters instead of pistols is a significant buff, but it doesn't address their core weakness. If the 6th edition codex, whenever it comes, changes nothing about DC except the cost of their jump packs I'll be happy.

 

Khorne Berzerkers are great. The issue is when players try to field many units. They are an expensive woodchipper, and they need support to do what they are supposed to do. If all you have is 2-3 units of berzerkers, you are in for a bad game. If you got 1 unit of berzerkers, 1 unit of CSM and some cultists, you'll have more bodies and more ways to make sure they get to combat. It's the same thing with DC.