Power axe or Powerfist?

[MagicMan]

I don't give my tactical Sergeants any sort of power weapon. If they do get into combat, they generally get wasted anyway. And anything that won't destroy the tactical squad (guardsmen, fire warriors) doesn't need a power weapon to deal with.

[Excubitor]

If you were to put a combi weapon on a sgt, would the points you save by taking an axe over a fist be worth the fact that you still are not getting an extra attack?

 

I never see the point of putting more than one upgrade on a squad sergeant - except for melta bombs, which are cheap. Sternguard sergeants are the only ones that might get a CCW and a combi, to help enhance the squad. Never a tactical/Assault/Devastator sergeant. Either a combi, Plasma Pistol, or CCW, never a mix and match. Too many points on them otherwise.

[Shiodome]

what's the pf/lc combo people are talking about, why is it worth it?

[Giga]

what's the pf/lc combo people are talking about, why is it worth it?

Power fist + lightning claw. Both are specialist weapons so you get +1 attack for both weapons. 

 

The benefits are self-explanatory. 

[War Angel]

Must just be me then. My meta has a lot of marines, so the best thing some times is to get a good shooting in, ten charge them to finish em off on the other turn, getting bypassed by all the other shooting.

[War Angel]

 

If you were to put a combi weapon on a sgt, would the points you save by taking an axe over a fist be worth the fact that you still are not getting an extra attack?

 

I struggled over that question in 5th Edition, when I ran Lysander and thus felt the need to take combi-weapons AND CCWs on my Tac Sergeants.  I went whole-hog on it, taking combis and fists, but it's a big points-hit.  Personally, I am now of the opinion that power fists should be left off of Tactical Sergeants, now I can still see a combi plus fist or claw on a Sternguard Sergeant since they're much more liable to need it.

But not swords or axes?

[Lysere]

Why would you take an axe over a fist? The better question would be, "When does a fist become useful to a 1 wound 2 attack model?"

 

A powerfist is better than an axe when fighting MCs, vehicles, and characters with low to no invuln. The issue is you are now I 1, and have one less attack than any power weapon option w/ a pistol. An axe may still be I 1, but you maintain that extra attack, as well as lose less points when the sergeant inevitably bites it.

 

Most of the time an axe is better when using them on 1 W models that might need AP2, but don't plan on fighting vehicles of any kind. 

 

For example, Black Templar Crusader Squads have no sergeant, so an extra attack is a big difference.

 

A fist is best when dealing with one of the aforementioned large targets but a character would be better for that, or terminators since they already have one.

[W0lfie]

 

A lot of the older sets should have left handed powerfists.  The commander and Assault squad should have left handed fists, the commander also has a left handed claw.

Actually the fist in the Assault box is right-handed.

 

Left-handed ones... well, Black Templars upgrade kit, Command Squad, Commander, Devastators. At least. It's actually harder to find right-handed ones. The right-handed ones that I know of are in the Death Company box and the Assault box.

 

As far as Lightning Claws go, it's the Commander box (left) and the do-it-all Space Wolf box (left and right, IIRC). Of course the best source of claws if you need a boatload is the Chaos Marine Raptor/Talon box, but those would need to be modded to not look chaotic, I guess.

 

In general it tends to be annoying how the same type of weapons always seem to be for the same hand. Like all my power axes are right-handed, and almost all swords are left-handed. Heck, no bolter marines that'd shoot "left-handed" either, for that matter.

If you are looking for left handed axes, and are in the market for honour guard/a librarian anyways, then I would recommend the Sevrin Loth and Honour Guard box, it contains several left handed, highly ornate power axes.  The standard honour guard have right-handed swords I believe.  Either way, having the axes usually right handed, and swords usually left works out alright in many cases :)

 

@Giga, about putting the Fist+Claw on wolf lords; let's not go into that, the space wolves have options different enough to make it a whole different ball game (i.e. wolf claws, frost axes).

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

 

If you were to put a combi weapon on a sgt, would the points you save by taking an axe over a fist be worth the fact that you still are not getting an extra attack?

 

I struggled over that question in 5th Edition, when I ran Lysander and thus felt the need to take combi-weapons AND CCWs on my Tac Sergeants.  I went whole-hog on it, taking combis and fists, but it's a big points-hit.  Personally, I am now of the opinion that power fists should be left off of Tactical Sergeants, now I can still see a combi plus fist or claw on a Sternguard Sergeant since they're much more liable to need it.

But not swords or axes?

 

No.  The balancing factor between power weapons and the specialist power weapons is that the regular ones can be paired on the cheap, with say, a bolt pistol for an extra attack.  In other words, to get the most utility out of a regular power weapon, you need to get that off-hand attack.  The combi-weapon is going to be swapped out for the sergeant's bolter or chainsword (so that you can keep the pistol if you absolutely need to charge), so taking a power weapon will by default make you lose the pistol -- thus, your sergeant is still at a base of just two attacks.  This is the same number of attacks you'd get with a fist, claw, or hammer.

 

That is why I focused so much on the power fist in my previous comment.  If you're not getting the advantage out of taking the regular power weapon -- the extra attack -- then why take it all?  Either forgo it period and just take a combi, or go combi and power fist.  The third option -- regular power weapon and pistol -- is at its heart an assault build for a sergeant, and these are Tactical Squads we're talking about.

[W0lfie]

Another consideration is the I1 pile in can help you dodge challenges and still get your attacks.

[Captain Idaho]

Dodging challenges is a crucial tactic in 6th edition but you have to do it by ensuring your characters are out of engagement range when assaults are initiated.

[War Angel]

How?

[Captain Idaho]

Model placement.

 

Like I said, it's an imprecise science due to opponents rolling extraordinary high.

 

You only have to be 3" away from an engaged model, so if you're about to receive a charge in the next turn you can move your characters to the rear of the unit in the shape of a conga line, forming a crescent shape in front of the prospective chargers to limit their ability to move round your models.

 

It's much harder to do when charging yourself of course, because your whole unit has to move up to your dice roll to make it into engagement range if not base contact.

 

And of course the smaller your units the harder it is to do.

[WarriorFish]

I still sometimes wonder about the merits of power axes thanks to striking at I1, but the decreased cost and additional attack seem like a good compromise to the raw strength of a power fist. I wouldn't take either on a Sergeant though as it feels too much like asking not to swing it thanks to challenges.

 

As for axe handedness why not perform a chop and change around the hands? All you need is a good blade and you can mod without much effort.