Alexis Pollux made a massive mistake. Crimson Fist spoilers.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Whoa, whoa, hold the phone.  My in-depth and well-reasoned post goes ignored -- that I can deal with -- but when a good thread discussion goes off-topic with this kind of trash, that's where I draw the line.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

I wouldn't say ignored, brother. I felt I had little to add by replying.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Whoa, whoa, hold the phone.  My in-depth and well-reasoned post goes ignored -- that I can deal with -- but when a good thread discussion goes off-topic with this kind of trash, that's where I draw the line.

Now you know how the Loyalists felt when the crap started hitting the fan and our favorite buddies in blue/black/purple/white/grey/red/green/yellow started showing up everywhere! Congratulations!!

Let me take out my trash...here. *dumps virtual self in a virtual garbage canister* 

Alexis Pollux would've been able to pull off the 2nd greatest holding action (like I said, he's almost as good as Dantioch, but not quite) if it hadn't been for the retreat order. Which would've been over-the-top hilariously ironic, really, because like it was said before, the entire premise of the IW attack was that Sigismund would be in command. IW inflexibility? Eh. I chalk it up to the author. 

I want to see the meeting between Pollux and Dantioch go down though. So, in conclusion ... not a mistake. More like resume filler.

[W0lfie]

So I finished Crimson Fist earlier and, appart from it being probably one of the best naval enguagments I've ever read both in and outside of the heresy, one thing stoo out to me. Pollux made a huge error and wasted the life of a fellow Captain. I'm not gonna put this is spoiler tags cause I've stated it in the title but if you don't want to know more don't read on.

 

 

 

The moment when Tyr designated the Iron Blood as leading the assault why exactly did everybody think storming the battle barge to go toe to toe with one of the Emperors sons was a good idea? Terminator plate or not. I know he says that he was expecting more brothers and Dreadnaughts to back up the assault on the bridge but still against a Primarch? Considering at this point the Fists were carving the Iron Warriors fleet to pieces would it not have been the more logical move to simply surround the Iron Blood and destroy her? Now yes I realise that scuttling a flagship wouldn't be easy but Pollux does commit a lot of his ships to backing up his boarding action only to have them die when they try to break off. If his goal was to kill the Primarch surely scuttling the ship would have been more effective since, regardless of how much punishment they can take, they cant survive in the in the vaccum indefinitely. (The sorce of that is what Gulliman says when he gets back aboard his ship in Fear to Tread. As i recall he says something along the lines of 'he only survived because he was inside the ships shields and even he couldn't have lasted out there for long.')

 

I agree, he should have stayed.  He could have killed a legion, and their primarch! Without the IW to help with the siegecraft, the battle for terra likely would have been quite different too, with the emperor not even need to teleport up to the Vengeful spirit :O everything would be different.  But the fact remains, it happened.  There are so many things in 40k where a small shift would leave it unrecognizable, and this is a perfect example of that.  Especially when the casualties they took retreating are taken into account.

 

But then again, that was the point.  This story, more than anything,  was about the discipline of the Imperial Fists.  Dorn desperately wanted them back (duh, it was 1/3 of his legion) so he sent his call.  That really was the decision being made right there; though Pollux felt doubt, he was a fist through and through, and their stubborn adherence to doctrine and the chain of command is as much a defining trait of theirs as excellence in siegecraft and honesty.

[W0lfie]

Scuttling isn't fool proof anyway.  Guilliman was struggling to survive because he wasn't wearing a helmet.  If Perturabo was in sealed armor, he would have been fine for the short term.  Plus, he could easily abandon ship. 

 

Ultimately, engaging him directly is the only way to confirm death.

 

Though, to be honest, Primarchs seem to vary in their indestructability depending on the author and scenario, lol.  Maybe a few dozen terminators are a threat to primarchs. 

 

If they sent in the next wave of terminators as planned, then Perturabo would be fighting hundreds or even thousands of terminators.  NOTHING beats thousands of terminators.  Except Alpha+ psykers, sometimes.

[Onisuzume]

If they sent in the next wave of terminators as planned, then Perturabo would be fighting hundreds or even thousands of terminators.  NOTHING beats thousands of terminators.  Except Alpha+ psykers, sometimes.

Sometimes?

Depending on the author, an Aleph+ is described as being able to snap a titan in half with the flick of a wrist, and summoning legions of greater dæmons.

So yeah, an Aleph+ probably could beat thousands of terminators, or at least make it very difficult for them.

[Deus Imperator Vult]

 

 

 

If they sent in the next wave of terminators as planned, then Perturabo would be fighting hundreds or even thousands of terminators.  NOTHING beats thousands of terminators.  Except Alpha+ psykers, sometimes.

or Tylos Rubio...

[Brother_Thorus]

Brothers, i think there is only one way to settle this, to the table top!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That'd be one giant game of BFG.