Sooo..... chariots?

[Sception]

Does anyone feel inclined to use the chariots?  I admit to not being a fan of the 6e chariot rules to begin with, and on top of it the daemon ones are all incredibly fragile.  I do, however, very much like some of the models.  Basically all of them except the alternate slaaneshi combine harvester build (the regular slaaneshi chariot build looks fine to me).  I mean, I was ambivalent to the new khorne and tzeentch chariots at first, but they've both grown on me considerably.  So I'm curious, does anybody see any of these things as particularly valid or functional gameplay elements?  Or are they just the pretty models with no tabletop value that they appear as at first glance to me?

[Captain Idaho]

They wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for just how fragile they are! Even the quantum shielded Catacombe Command Barge is not very survivable as you can hit it on a 3+ against rear armour etc. So just getting into assault isn't the only challenge now, but also when you get there too!

[Seahawk]

It requires target saturation.

 

Bring two greater daemons and max out the FA and HS chariots. That's 14 armored/MC targets, and your opponent won't know what to do. It's also, at a minimum, 1200 points (because Exalted Seeker Chariots are boss). Not that that means much, because that's plenty of points for cheap Troops choices, even at 1500.

 

Personally, I'm a big huge fan of the Exalted Seeker Chariots. 3 per slot, a mere 75 points, and in combat by turn 1 if you go second, turn 2 if you go first. So many rending impact hits really take my cake. Plus, the model is ridiculously wicked awesome, as is the fluff behind it.

[Smurfalypse]

Also, once the Flamer one is FAQ'd properly I am sure it will see a fair amount of use.

[Sception]

But even if you're going for armor/monster saturation, would you ever take the chariots over grinders / princes?

[Seahawk]

Of course. It's not saturation if you have four models. It is if you have a dozen. 

[Iron Sage]

On paper, they  hit hard as hell. Glascannon de luxe,but still.

 

Like Malisteen, I also truly like the chariot models and thats a + at least ;)

 

I assume that post-FAQ, the flamer chariot can grill units after having moved. When/if this comes to pass, they are bound to have a terrifying effect on enemy infantry units indeed.

 

Obviously, the Soulgrinder is more "trustworthy" in that it is hellishly resillient. But although cheap for its value, it does indeed cost significantly more (at least when upgraded), which means that choosing tzeentchian chariots will mean that you have more points to spend on other aspects of your army lists.

[Seahawk]

Now you're getting it. Flood the field with AV10-11 Chariots, then stack a few monsters on top and your opponents should have troubles. Emperor help him if you double FOC it...

 

Hmm...

 

[500] 2x Bloodthirster

[340] 2x Keeper of Secrets

[375] 4x 10 Plague Bearers, 1x champ and banner

[180] 3x Hellflayers

[525] 7x Exalted Seeker Chariots

[80] 2x Seeker Chariots

 

2 FMC, 2 MC, 40 Inf, 12 Chariots. Will be in assault turn 1 or 2.

[Iron Sage]

Now you're getting it. Flood the field with AV10-11 Chariots, then stack a few monsters on top and your opponents should have troubles. Emperor help him if you double FOC it...

 

Hmm...

 

[500] 2x Bloodthirster

[340] 2x Keeper of Secrets

[375] 4x 10 Plague Bearers, 1x champ and banner

[180] 3x Hellflayers

[525] 7x Exalted Seeker Chariots

[80] 2x Seeker Chariots

 

2 FMC, 2 MC, 40 Inf, 12 Chariots. Will be in assault turn 1 or 2.

I was about to say that you would struggle against tank heavy armies, but it dawns on me that there might not be much else alive in your opponents army come Turn 4, other than the odd tank or two.

 

Playing against that with a non min-maxed army would be...maybe not so fun , albeit probably an interesting experience! ^^

[Captain Idaho]

Now you're getting it. Flood the field with AV10-11 Chariots, then stack a few monsters on top and your opponents should have troubles. Emperor help him if you double FOC it...

 

Hmm...

 

[500] 2x Bloodthirster

[340] 2x Keeper of Secrets

[375] 4x 10 Plague Bearers, 1x champ and banner

[180] 3x Hellflayers

[525] 7x Exalted Seeker Chariots

[80] 2x Seeker Chariots

 

2 FMC, 2 MC, 40 Inf, 12 Chariots. Will be in assault turn 1 or 2.

You're a bad man Seahawk!

 

You have convinced me of a chariot's place in Daemon armies too!

[Seahawk]

Exactly. BT's get in the face. If those go down, then all those Chariots are impacting with a bajillion Rending attacks, so they can more than easily take out AV12 or less. Then the Keepers hit. And don't forget, all those MC's can Smash. All the while your scoring units are either sitting happily on objectives or in Reserves. I'd probably have them on the table though, to draw off heavy bolter fire from the Chariots.

 

Boom.

 

Shaka.

 

Laka.

[Sception]

seems reliant on that second force org chart that I've never seen anyone actually willing to play with or against.  Also issues with fliers, and only runs the slaaneshi chariots - including the dumb looking harvester version.  And it spams the exalted, which I could see myself running one of maybe, but not a whole unit of as it's just too money to spend on a model at < 100 points.  And I still wonder if it can be considered 'armor saturation' when so much of it is vulnerable to anti-infantry weapons.

 

Still, seems functional, at least.  And the tzeentch chariot may have some potential once they FAQ it, though I wonder if a single shot per game will justify its points cost, given that it will never get to fire twice.

 

 

Any thoughts on the viability of the khorne cannon or motorchair?  They strike me as the coolest looking of these chariots, but are also the ones I'm most skeptical of on the table.

[Seahawk]

It doesn't matter if they're not willing to play against what the rules tell (and encourage!) you to do. It's part of the game, so tell 'em to man up. Players in our group have to all the time!

BT's, if they're still alive, can deal with Flyers, especially if they roll up Warp Breath or Hellfire Gaze (provided you sack some points to give them rewards). Even with just the whip they can threaten rear armor at the least. It ain't pretty, but really by the time the Flyers are going to make their mark, most of their army should be dead or dying anyway. What are they going to do, shoot your Shrouded infantry? Deposit passengers so they can...assault the daemons? Na, I don't think Flyers will be a big issue for these guys.

The Khorne chariots? I dunno, probably useful in an all-Khorne army. Heralds boosting all the units, cannons giving your grenade-less daemons a chance in the assault phase. Three of each seems good, making it six dreadnought-esque vehicles on the table. Amusingly, most people dislike the look of the lawn mower but really like the thresher. To each their own I suppose!

With the Burning chariot, post-FAQ I'd be happy to swap out all the Seeker Chariots for 6 of them.

ewwwwww

[Sception]

perhaps big games are cool where you are, but where I am between games taking forever (something the daemon book won't help with) and the double force orgs, the regular game size is about 1500 points, and 1999 is the hardcap for finding anybody willing to play a game.  Much as in fantast 2999 is the hardcap maximum game size in my area.

[Seahawk]

Interesting. We'll crack out a 2k game in 2 hours or so without a problem, and often finish a 4k (teams) game within 3 (including mysterious terrain and everything else, which we have lots of), so size never matters for us. 

 

We are planning a 4-player all-daemons game this weekend though, so I'll let you know how long it takes. ;)

 

 

To carry on with the list though, you can drop the Bloodthirsters and be at 1500. 

[Nehekhare]

pretty models

no. ;)

 

I can imagine necron air cav having a field day against this list.

[Sception]

Well, I like the models anyway.  Or some of them at least.  I'm not a fan of the slaaneshi harvester or double decker chariot.  But I like the regular slaanesh & tzeench chariot models, and I actually quite like the motorchair.

[jahatch42878]

So, other than 2000 pt 2xFoC Spam, do we see a use for these chariots in the army to augment assaults or smash infantry that aren't hiding behind barricades?

 

Or is it really take 3 (or 6, or 9) or go home?  I see that one is probably just a free First Blood Point for the enemy ... and mounting a Herald in one doesn't really give you much more protection, makes you a stand out target, and really it's the impact hits that you are banking on, not the melee abilities of the rider (or psychic shots in the case of Tzeentch), so it does seem less than ideal...

 

in smaller games (up to 1500) I'd be thinking either a herd of 3 on a flank, 1 or 3 as "counter chargers" if facing another melee army (nids... maybe orks?, keep out of LOS till needed), or deep striking 1 or 2 behind enemy heavy weapons and making them either turn and fire @ chariot (overkill) or ignore chariot to target bigger threat and get charged in the rear on turn 3... but that's also assuming the bigger threat isn't already in combat on turn 2 or 3, which might actually be bad if that's the case...

 

Thoughts? anyone used them successfully or unsuccessfully so far?  - J

[Sixestohit]

Until the FAQ drops, which will hopefully allow my Tzeentch chariot to move and shoot, mines pretty much benched.

 

If they sort it out though, I'm going to reserve it, drop it down next to an icon and flame or anti tank something. If I'm lucky it'll pull it's 100 points back in one shot, if I get to fire it again after that I'll be amazed. It really does seem like a one shot "Haha!" attack thing. It is Tzeentch though and as I run mono, I pretty much have to have one (it just looks so Tzeentchy!)

 

James.

[EricBasser]

I was also thinking Iconing it in and shooting/flaming near by targets. Then I realized you can do sweeping attacks with it, if I'm understanding the rules correctly. So add in Greater Reward, swap for Greater Ether Blade. Between two chariots and a allied Heldrake, that's a lot of vector/sweeping attacks and torrent flamers that kill MEQ.

 

New list idea. Have as many units that can vector strike/sweep attack/slashing attack. So Bloodthirster/LoC, Screamers, Burning Chariots, allied Daemon Prince and Heldrake. Seems like a fast and fun list. Sprinkle in what troops you can.

[AekoldHelbrass]

Slight offtopic, but I have a question:

how do you think, can Herald on Seeker Chariot join Seeker Cavalcade?

[Seahawk]

Sadly, no. Vehicles cannot join units unless the vehicle itself has the independent character special rule.

[AekoldHelbrass]

Sadly, no. Vehicles cannot join units unless the vehicle itself has the independent character special rule.

But Seeker Cavalcade is a squadron, it's already formed of vehicles. Still no?

[Seahawk]

A vehicle is not an independent character. A character can be, but not a vehicle. 

[Cheex]

As Seahawk said, you cannot join a Herald on Chariot to another unit.

 

The Herald is still an IC, but it can't join another unit while it is embarked. The chariot itself lacks the IC rule, so cannot join other units.

 

Also, models with the IC rule cannot join vehicle squadrons in any case (RB p39, 'Independent Character', first paragraph).