Stormraven Proxy-- Dark Talon?

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Well BA Brothers, I hate the Stormraven model. To me it looks even worse than the Stormtalon, and that is saying something.

 

Stormraven = Good Rules, Horrible Model

 

however, for me:

 

Dark Talon = Bad Rules, Awesome Model

 

 

The curious thing I've noticed is that the two Flyers are armed very closely with the same weapons-- Hurricane Bolters being the obvious, then the megabolter can easily 'count as' the twin-linked Assault Cannon.  Where the twin-linked heavy bolters would go, you can easily mount multimeltas and for the Bloodstrike Missiles I can simply add Hunter Killer missiles (I have tons laying around). I never use the Transport capacity these days so that is a non-issue. Also, I would be actually be taking a penalty by lacking a swiveling turret for the TLAC.

 

Now the questions for the Community are:

1. How would you personally feel about playing against a "DarkTalon counts-as Raven" in a friendly game?
2. How would you personally feel about playing against a "DarkTalon counts-as Raven" in a Local-Tournament game?
3. If you were a Local-Tournament Organizer, would you allow it? Or disqualify him and make him sit-out, returning his entry-fee?

[Ushtarador]

How dare you mock the flying brick? We are space marines, we don't walk through doors, we break down the wall - and that's exactly what the raven looks like! :P

 

The non-swiveling turret is quite a disadvantage, I think most people would be fine with the "counts-as" raven - especially if you don't transport anything anyway and if it is nicely converted and painted :)

It is a smaller model, but flyers are impossible to hide anyway, so I don't think you'd ever really get an advantage for using the darktalon instead of the raven.

[Talnox]

Just do some type of conversion. If you like the dark talon thats fine but I might bulk it up to make it bigger to look like it could transport models and a dread. I hate the look of the stormraven but I wanted to use it. I really liked the look of the drop ships from space above and beyond. I also wanted it to look like it could fly and hover for rapid troop deployment. So I came up with this: The engines use magnets to move from horizontal to vertical to show hovering. 

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Talnox I really appreciate it. That is some great work there and I am glad you found a solution you like.

 

I just can't get over the overall airframe of the Raven. It's simply the most preposterous flying-machine I've ever seen in sci-fi. It would never survive atmospheric flight. Now I know how silly that is... I'm having issues about aerodynamic physics in a universe where anti-grav hover tanks and monsters with improper wingspans-to-mass happily coexist alongside psychic humans and FTL warp-travel. But for some strange reason, I still need some modicum of suspension of disbelief. I look at a Valkyrie, a Razorwing or heck even a Dakkajet and I can 'believe' them. The Stormraven.... just fails.

 

Since I have your attention though, what's you answer to #1-3 in the OP?

[John Rainbow]

I would have no problem with the first 2. I'm fairly relaxed about all these things usually though. The third might be an issue unless it was very obvious what the model was. Most tournies I have been to however, have allowed some custom models.

[Talnox]

In a friendly game no problem. In a tournament setting I would say maybe. I would depend on how much conversion work you did with it. If its just the stock model then probably not. You mentioned the valkyrie what if you took that and added some spacemarine funk to it. maybe wings, tail, and guns. maybe some type of underbelly turret and wing mounted guns. I just think the dark talon is way to small. 

[tomjoad]

To echo Talnox, my opinion would hinge entirely on how big a Dark Talon is (I've never seen one in person). If it's Stormtalon sized, that would stink too much of MFA, even though that's not your intent. In a friendly game, I still wouldn't care, but I might be inclined to mark somebody down for sportsmanship in a tournament.

[j-smuv]

1: I would have no problem in a friendly game

 

2: I wouldn't have a problem in a tourney. It's all in good fun. But if, by rare chance, there is an issue with LoS or something. . . you should be very generous to your opponent. The Dark Talon is a smaller aircraft. Also, what you lose in versitility for the top turret, you gain in about 3" of range front to ground. Most people would probably be ok with it, but you never know. People get wierd at tourneys. . . even local ones.

 

3: I organize tourneys for my local club, and we let proxies in all the time. But we all know each other, so it's not a very competitive environment. I think the fact that you're asking the question means that there may be some legitimacy to your concern. You know your tourney scene. I would definitely ask an organizer through email, and if he confirms it's ok, then print out the email and take it with you. That will avoid the disappointment of showing up and being sent home.

[Iceyeeye]

To echo Talnox, my opinion would hinge entirely on how big a Dark Talon is (I've never seen one in person). If it's Stormtalon sized, that would stink too much of MFA, even though that's not your intent. In a friendly game, I still wouldn't care, but I might be inclined to mark somebody down for sportsmanship in a tournament.

What is MFA?

 

To the OP:

1. Go for it.

2. I personally wouldn't mind.

3. Dunno.

[tomjoad]

Modeling for advantage. I'm aware that this is not CAG's intent, but a random tournament opponent has no way of know that. All they know is "That tiny plane is giving him an advantage" so it's reasonable to think some opponents will conclude that he is using a Dark Talon as a Stormraven for that reason.

[Iceyeeye]

Modeling for advantage. I'm aware that this is not CAG's intent, but a random tournament opponent has no way of know that. All they know is "That tiny plane is giving him an advantage" so it's reasonable to think some opponents will conclude that he is using a Dark Talon as a Stormraven for that reason.

 

I see. It is sad that, that is an issue.

[Paulochromis]

MFA is less of a concern with flyers if you put them on the right size base, and with enough elevation (lots of people play fast and loose here, even with non-counts as).

To make sure, just print and laminate a life-sized (well game-sized) image of a stormraven (there are plenty of build your own paper templates out there) and hand it to your opponent. Every time he wants to see if he could see the real raven, he just holds the template in front of your flyer.