I want to like Chosen, but...

[Vorenus]

Fellow Servants of the Ruinous Powers:

 

For several weeks now I have been working on crafting an army list for a Chaos War Band I am tentatively calling "The Fell Brethren," and I have previously asked for help from the B&C members with designing the HQ (Chaos Lord Shallag Jaganath, The World-Breaker) and deciding whether to take Forgefiends or Defilers.  Before I ask my next question, I want to thank everyone who has already contributed their insights in my previous threads as I have cogitated upon this army list. 

 

For some reason I have found this army to be more difficult to design than the typical army lists that I build (you can see some of them on the Imperium's side if you want; my other armies include Deathwatch [using the C:SM], Grey Knights, and Tau).  I'm not sure why, but I find the Codex Chaos Space Marines to be somewhat counterintuitive and building a list has not come naturally for me; it's probably just my inexperience with the Chaos Legions, the Codex itself doesn't seem to be the problem.  Except for one issue, and that is Chosen.  I just can't seem to make them work in a list.  I want to like Chosen, I really do.  I like what Chosen represent--how they fill a specific niche in the mythology of the 40K universe--and I think the flavor text of a unit of Chosen would fit nicely into my conceptual framework for The Fell Brethren, but everytime I try to work them into a list I end up crumpling the paper and throwing it into the waste receptacle.  As I said, I don't think the Codex is terrible (I'm used to using the Tau Codex, after all, which is extremely outdated now--I believe it is a 4th edition codex, but I could be wrong about that), but I just can't seem to crack the code when it comes to Chosen.

 

In addition to flavor text motivations, there is also the issue of which models I will be using.  I will be using the DARK VENGEANCE starter set to begin building the actual models for the Fell Brethren, as a friend of mine and I are splitting the box (he gets the Dark Angels, I get the Crimson Slaughter models).  So I will have 6 Chosen to start with, and figured I'd add 4 more to bring the unit to 10 men, then purchase a Chaos Rhino for them to ride in (both so they can travel in style on the battlefields and to increase their survivability).  So already I'm looking at 215 points, with no upgrades.  I originally envisioned these Chosen as my anti-MEQ force, absolute terrors in combat, so I was planning on giving them a Mark of Slaanesh (for the +1 to Initiative, so they get to strike before MEQs), and the Icon of Excess (for Feel No Pain), and Veterans of the Long War.  The DARK VENGEANCE Chosen models come with Chosen armed with a Power Maul, Power Axe, Power Fist, and paired Lightning Claws.  After those upgrades, the unit now costs a whopping 375 points.  I wanted to give the squad a Heavy Bolter and give the Chosen Champion a Power Sword and Gift of Mutation, but now we're at 400 points, and I have to wonder if that's just way too many points for what this unit can do in a battle.  I have played with deathstar units before with more than 20 percent of my army costs in one unit, but I'm just not sure it's a good investment with Chosen.

 

Hence my questions:  How do my fellow Servants of the Ruinous Powers use Chosen?  And to clarify what I am asking, I don't mean "do you use them as Troops or Elites," I will NOT be taking Abaddon in this list so if I take Chosen they will be elites; what I mean by how do you use the Chosen is:  A.  What do you equip them with?  B.  What role do they fill in your army?  Etc.  Or do you all just opt for Chaos Terminators instead for your Elites choice(s)?  If any of you have actual battlefield experience with Chosen, how have they performed?  Do they at least make their points back on a regular basis?  Or are they too fragile, even with 3+ Armour Save and Feel No Pain?  Are Chosen a terrible investment, or have they actually been solid units in your armies?

 

Thank you all again for taking the time to read this post and provide your insights.  I have really appreciated the help of my fellow B&C members these past few weeks, and I look forward to your insights on the Chosen.

 

v/r

 

--Vorenus

[Zhorzh]

I have 10 Chosen with 5 Plasmaguns, and my main reasons why I bring them is because I don't have a CSM squad with 2x Plasmaguns (not yet at least) and my models are very nicely converted. Unless you take 5 Plasma/Meltaguns and spam them, there's no point to them.You're better off with normal CSMs, they do almost the same thing for less points and they're scoring.

Don't ever mark them because then they start to cost like Cult troops, and all Cult troops except maybe Berzerkers are better than their Chosen counterparts.

It's also stupid to make them geared for CC because Terminators are way better in that respect. In that case you're better off getting Termies and calling them Chosen Terminators, they even have almost identical stats.

I always give them a Rhino, because otherwise they're completely outclassed by Terminators.

And before someone mentions Abbadon, it's impossible to make a ballanced Abbadon Chosen list under 2000 points.

[totgeboren]

I got a unit of Chosen, who come in at 232 if they are 9 strong with a champ with p.sword, two axes, 2 meltaguns and 1 flamer. Lead by a Dark Apostle which gives them Hate and Fearless. That is about the same as a normal squad of CSM, but they can fit in a Rhino/Raider with the Apostle and still retain all their firepower, and are quite fighty in close combat too.

And a mark isn't that bad, only costing a little below 20 pts, though the Apostle then needs no mark or the same mark.

 

Though I must admit, I don't like them not having VotLW, it just feels wrong... I also never have enough scoring units, and having a unit that is a basic CSM squad+, but not scoring doesn't really feel worth it. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, haven't even tried them yet! ^^

 

But as Nehekhare below points out, Terminators do the same, but better. Last battle, I used 6 termies with 2 fists, and all have combi-weapons. They cost about the same as the Chosen. 6 Termies vs 9 PA Chosen. My big problem is that I like my Lord in Termie armour, and if I'm bringing him, I need some Termie bodyguards too, meaning I don't have the points for Chosen.

[Nehekhare]

some people think they can be effective as CC troops with some PWs and MoK/S.

some people think they can be effective with lots of plasmaguns.

I think that terminators do both for less points, do not need a transport and are way more resilient.

Terminators play more to the game's requirements, which atm is shooting and counter-assault while not giving up easy killpoints.

 

Glass cannons on the other hand...seldomly live up to their expectations (glance at dark eldar).

The DV chosen models make good CSM unit champions, though.

[derpasaurus]

10 chosen with all the plasma it can pack is awesome, for sure. I run my Chosen with CC in mind. Which people seem to think is dumb. I dunno why... 2 power weapons, 2 meltas, 2 flamers. 10 strong, Vets, MoS/MoK. 275. MoS is 40 attacks hitting before most MEQ, MoK is 50 going simo. (sure they "die like marines" but they hit twice as hard for not much more, and can pack in the weapons!) In 5th Chosen had infiltrate built in, so I never gave them a rhino. In 6th they lost infiltrate but gained a base attack. I tend to run Huron so I still don't need to give them a transport to get them where they belong. My chosen nearly always make their points back.

 

 

Sure Terminators get power weapons and 2+/5++, and 5 of them with combi-plasma is 192. I don't know about anyone else, but my meta sees terminator armor and points things that force invuln saves at them. so you're paying nearly 200 for only 5 things that you can't reliably get on the table (deepstrike is a complete crap shoot for us, foot slogging gets them hit with anti tank guns/ap2 templates, etc., a LR doubles the cost of the unit, which makes it not worth it in lower point games). Basically... I'm the opposite camp from a lot of people here. I've never had good luck with my Terminators. I want to like them, I spent $50 on them , :cuss. Their performance on the table leaves me shaking my head. I've tried everything, and my Chosen always perform better for me. Here's an example: I counter charged a group of my friend's 6 strong Deathwing that landed near me on turn 2. Weathered his fire surprisingly well, considering, fired my assault crap into them, killed 2, charged with 7 units. Got thru overwatch unscathed, challenged out Belial w/ Huron (sgt was dead from a melta shot) and proceeded to roll 24 dice for my mooks, vets re-rolling misses. about 12 wounds, and the squad was dead. He had fists so he didn't even get to attack. (Oh and Huron finished off Belial the next turn) In that same game, my Terminators outflanked, glanced a landraider with a combi melta, glanced it again with a chain fist, and were shot to death the next turn.

 

I never use my terminators these days. I'm considering using them as some counts-as oblits just so I can use the models I spent basically $10 each on.

 

Edit: typoes.

[the jeske]

 

I'm used to using the Tau Codex, after all, which is extremely outdated

now--I believe it is a 4th edition codex, but I could be wrong about

that

the tau dex with eldar or SW ally are good , specialy if you can take eldar FW flyers. But that is off topic

 

I see two problems here . A rules have little to nothing to do with what stuff actualy does on the table most of the time . B depanding on how much you like/dislike the chosen models there is nothing stoping you from using them as something else . Want a 5 man plasma unit , take elite pms with 2 plas 1 combi plas. Want them bigger take csm .

 

 

good or bad[we could be doing this for a very long time] the facts are this . chosen dont have a good delivery method , but cost more then csm/pms while doing more or less the same thing . Now can you use them effectivly ? yes , the game is full of random effects [rolls, opposing armies, terrain etc] , but in general they work less good then stuff which is viewed as optimal .

 

terminators will do better plasma platforms for almost the same points . bikers will do better "honor guard" units etc.

[Trevak Dal]

Regarding delivery methods...there's always the Dreadclaw.  It's forgeworld (-1), and takes up a Fast attack slot (-10), but after the turn it comes on, if it survives (-30...), it can enter hover mode, and count as an assault vehicle.  Chosen have frag grenades, and CC equipped Chosen can wreck some havoc.

 

But...you'd have to build your army around that singular delivery method, that means pushing your Maulerfiends/other fast CC units (Raptors, Bikers, Warp talons) up into the enemy's line to engage/neutralize the Aegis Defense line  guys the badguys might have on the Rickey-Tick or you may be losing a lot of points real fast (s10 ap1 hits on the unit if the flyer crashes...not good times)

 

And you can reuse the Dreadclaw (assuming it survives...).

[Redtoof]

I've used a unit of 8 Khorne chosen loaded with meltaguns and a claw on the champ, infiltrating with Huron. They did ok, but nothing spectacular. Like everyone else said, they don't really do anything that terminators or cult marines or basic troops can't do more efficiently. If you do take them you will want to keep them as cheap as you can so you don't loose 40 odd points every time you fail a 3+ save. I'd stay away from the power weapon upgrades (maybe a lone axe hidden in the squad).

[hornywingythingy]

If you want a unit toting lots of plasmaguns or something similar, havocs do it cheaper, and are scoring in big guns never tire, and don't need Abby to make them scoring, Tbh, I very rarely even look at elites, since our fast attack are so good, and our heavy so nesecary, I don't have the points spare.

[Iron_Within]

Has anyone considered taking a Chosen unit armed with 5 flamers? or a mix of flamers and Melta? I'm not sure how it would play out. Against hordes an 8 man squad with 5 flamers in a rhino would be brutal, even against Meq and Teq it would hurt with sheer weight of fire.

[*Furyou Miko]

It would work a little bit like a Dominion squad but for three times the price and without scouting.

 

Which is to say, it won't get a whisper's chance of actually using those guns before being shot to pieces, but if it does it'll be scarily effective (although again, not as good as the dominions because it lacks twin linked).

[chillin]

I think chosen can have a place in a large game. People keep saying they are the same as csm's, they are not,  chosen have an xtra attack, are still LD 9 if the champ gets killed, and can take four special weapons in any size squad instead of  having to take a 10 man squad in order to get only two, including hidden  pwr CCW's which csm's can not take at all. Saying they dont have a good delivery system is meaningless, since the have the exact same delivery system as every other pwr armor unit type in the dex. IMO (that means IMO,( some people will shoot down everything but PM's and drakes and necron allies)), chosen , in large games, equipped w 2-3 spec ranged weapons, and 2-3 pwr ccw's are a good all around  unit. I would not give them MoS and IoE Vorenus. It is again , my opinion, that more attacks or higher T is worth more then +1 int. I would not give them a banner at all. Or you could give them no mark and throw a DA in there, 4 attacks on the charge, w 3 pwr weopons,  rerolling misses is F'ing scarry.

  To me comparing termi's and chosen (or any other meq) is compairing apples and oranges. I've killed a 6 man termi unit (about same price as 10 man chosen unit) w 1 plaz cannon blast, so what  ?? I've had my termi's deviate onto my opponents LRC causing me to roll on the  DS misshap table, so what ?? So I not sure why/how  people compair termi's and chosen and say 1 is so much better then other, since they are two different things. I say if you are curious, give them a try for a few games, if you dont like them , use the models as csm's,  champs, a DA, whatever, you've lost nothing.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Chillin, the problem with your entire post is -- and I hate to say it because it makes me sound like a huge phalus -- you're wrong.  Before you unleash your inner Sith on me, allow me first to elaborate.

 

 

I think chosen can have a place in a large game. People keep saying they are the same as csm's, they are not (1),  chosen have an xtra attack, are still LD 9 if the champ gets killed, and can take four special weapons in any size squad instead of  having to take a 10 man squad in order to get only two, including hidden  pwr CCW's which csm's can not take at all. Saying they dont have a good delivery system is meaningless, since the have the exact same delivery system as every other pwr armor unit type in the dex (2). IMO (that means IMO,( some people will shoot down everything but PM's and drakes and necron allies)), chosen , in large games, equipped w 2-3 spec ranged weapons, and 2-3 pwr ccw's are a good all around  unit. I would not give them MoS and IoE Vorenus. It is again , my opinion, that more attacks or higher T is worth more then +1 int. I would not give them a banner at all. Or you could give them no mark and throw a DA in there, 4 attacks on the charge, w 3 pwr weopons,  rerolling misses is F'ing scarry.

  To me comparing termi's and chosen (or any other meq) is compairing apples and oranges. I've killed a 6 man termi unit (about same price as 10 man chosen unit) w 1 plaz cannon blast, so what  ?? I've had my termi's deviate onto my opponents LRC causing me to roll on the  DS misshap table, so what ?? So I not sure why/how  people compair termi's and chosen and say 1 is so much better then other, since they are two different things (3). I say if you are curious, give them a try for a few games, if you dont like them , use the models as csm's,  champs, a DA, whatever, you've lost nothing.

 

Alright, so.  Emphasis in the quote is mine obviously, the corresponding numbers being my proof/rebuttals.

 

1. When we say that Chosen are the same as stock CSMs, we're not referring to the entire stat line.  We're referring to the fact that Chosen DIE like stock CSMs.  They have absolutely nothing that makes them more survivable than schmoe Marines.  Sure, they've got an extra attack and an extra point of Leadership; but they're still T4 with a 3+ save.  If Chosen had a base S or T of 5, or an option for a 2+ save, or a decent invulnerable save (MoT's 6++ is laughable) then they'd definitely get a lot more props from the community.  But the way they are, they get absolutely nothing that is worth their point cost.  Even the increased number of weapon options isn't a good reason because you have to pay even more points to take them, which in turn makes the loss of each Chosen all the more painful.

 

2. This claim is illogical, my friend.  Imagine I said, "My poop doesn't stink because every other poop ever pooped out also stinks."  The Chaos Land Raider is crap for its points, and just because it's the same assault vehicle that Terminators and Mutilators and Berzerkers and joe CSMs can take doesn't make it less crappy.  It's crap because it's more expensive than a Loyalist vehicle of the same type, and we don't get the Power of the Machine Spirit.  It's a long-range gun tank that masquerades as an assault vehicle (or vice versa, if you prefer).  And since we're on the topic of assault vehicles, there's always the Rhi. . . oh wait.  The Rhino isn't an assault vehicle.  Well, there's that nifty Storm Ra. . . . oh, we don't have a flying assault vehicle, either.  (Unless you go FW for the Storm Eagle, but those are not allowed in all areas and besides, that stuff is expensive.)  This makes us a primarily assault army that has no reliable means of getting our infantry across the table so that they can actually launch assaults.

 

3. Yes, technically, Chosen and Terminators are two different units.  But when we compare them, we're using roughly approximate point values for each unit (just like you did, I might add) and seeing as how the entire concept of a points-system for a wargame is to generate game balance. . . oh wait.  That means that 6 Terminators is supposed to be equivalent to 9-10 Chosen.  One should not, therefore, be blatantly better than the other, and I'll admit that both have their advantages.  The problem is that Chosen are overpriced for what you get especially when you start adding upgrades like guns and Marks, making Terminators a clearly better choice for the discerning Chaos Lord to include in his warband.

 

Ok, I'm stepping off my soap box now.

[the jeske]

I think chosen can have a place in a large game. People keep saying they are the same as csm's, they are not,  chosen have an xtra attack, are still LD 9 if the champ gets killed, and can take four special weapons in any size squad instead of  having to take a 10 man squad in order to get only two, including hidden  pwr CCW's which csm's can not take at all. Saying they dont have a good delivery system is meaningless, since the have the exact same delivery system as every other pwr armor unit type in the dex. IMO (that means IMO,( some people will shoot down everything but PM's and drakes and necron allies)), chosen , in large games, equipped w 2-3 spec ranged weapons, and 2-3 pwr ccw's are a good all around  unit. I would not give them MoS and IoE Vorenus. It is again , my opinion, that more attacks or higher T is worth more then +1 int. I would not give them a banner at all. Or you could give them no mark and throw a DA in there, 4 attacks on the charge, w 3 pwr weopons,  rerolling misses is F'ing scarry.

  To me comparing termi's and chosen (or any other meq) is compairing apples and oranges. I've killed a 6 man termi unit (about same price as 10 man chosen unit) w 1 plaz cannon blast, so what  ?? I've had my termi's deviate onto my opponents LRC causing me to roll on the  DS misshap table, so what ?? So I not sure why/how  people compair termi's and chosen and say 1 is so much better then other, since they are two different things. I say if you are curious, give them a try for a few games, if you dont like them , use the models as csm's,  champs, a DA, whatever, you've lost nothing.

they are the same because they die like csm for more points . this means 2 things . in a game where points exist and your not picking the army at random , taking chosen means you have fewer models that die just the same as the cheaper ones .

 

on delivery . Yes chosen have the same transports csm or pms have . only unlike csm or pm squads which can be spamed , camp objectives and which do something else then shot their X plasma , the chosen have to go on the offense to work . now per se this isnt bad , a proper costed unit that does dmg [or even doesnt] but acts like a fire magnet long enough is ok/good. only chosen arent doing the whole firemagnet thing very well . no matter how many we take we are looking at high cost meq dieing like normal csm . In comperation the terminators do the same thing , but live longer [+2/+5] or just as long [which will be 1 turn on enemy army] and are better in melee . Saying one cant compare both of the units is also wrong . They are from the same slot , it is possible to build a terminator unit[as in one could actualy play ] for close to the same points a unit of chosen costs . both the units have the same utility[both can be huroned for example].

[Ammonius]

Has anyone considered taking a Chosen unit armed with 5 flamers? or a mix of flamers and Melta? I'm not sure how it would play out. Against hordes an 8 man squad with 5 flamers in a rhino would be brutal, even against Meq and Teq it would hurt with sheer weight of fire.

In 5th (and previous codex), I had a squad of flamer Chosen that would outflank in their Rhino, back on to the board 12", hop out, and burn down some random back-line squad on an objective. They were gimmicky, but they affected how my opponent deployed their forces, and felt like a threat.

 

In 6th (and current codex), they don't intrinsically have outflank, and can't disembark after a 12" move. Therefore, they have been shelved until I need them for an Apocalypse game or maybe in a narrative campaign. As has been said, there are better things to take in the current codex. If only we got chem-burners.

[*Furyou Miko]

Something people forget is that we've only actually lost 2" of movement because of the disembark rules changing.

 

It used to be move 12" disembark 2".

 

Now it's move 6" disembark 6".

[Ammonius]

Good point!

 

Now that I think about it, I'm usually "deploying" from a wreck or crater :)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Thanks Jeske for, you know, reiterating everything I already said. Just in a. . . harder to read fashion. . .

[Sception]

What makes chosen not just bad but laughable isn't how poorly they compare to terminators for the same points and slots, but the fact that the terminators that outclass them so handily aren't even good themselves, and are generally passed up to spend more points on Fast, Heavy, Scoring, HQ, & Allies.

 

It's easy to see how chosen come up lacking when comparing those same points to a pile of terminators, but while the comparison isn't so direct, even those terminators aren't going to be worth passing up on the prince, lord, sorcerer, drake, scoring unit, bikes, spawn, havocs, oblits, predators, or more allied guard, crons, or orks you could have had instead.  Chosen are completely outclassed by a unit that is itself not even good enough to be worth fielding most of the time.

[Iron Sage]

Thanks Jeske for, you know, reiterating everything I already said. Just in a. . . harder to read fashion. . .

I have never ever understood how people that have English as their mothertongue have difficulties reading bad English syntax etc. Most non-English speakers that knows English (and yes, I have noticed this criticism on this site towards people with mediocre grammar skills a lot, which is why I am writing this, and it is in no possible way "personal") have no real issues reading badly written sentences.

There are many matters in which I dont agree with Jeske on, but seriously, dont criticise him or anyone else for "grammar". If you do, then please show that you can write fluent Russian. Untill then, just read the post, and I am sure there isn`t actually any problem concerning comprehension at all, unless one has extremly bad reading skills (in which case, it would be foolish to criticise the writer in the first place!) :)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

My post wasn't criticizing his English -- that was added for comedic value, thus the smilie.  It was criticizing the fact that he added absolutely nothing to the conversation by restating my post.

 

As for your bit about difficulties with bad grammar, I in turn cannot understand how you cannot understand our issues.  Imagine you're reading something in your native tongue (Norwegian, I assume?) and it completely lacks punctuation.  Lacks proper capitalization.  Lacks proper spelling.  It becomes a jumble of letters and spaces that might be full sentences, but you can't be sure unless you dig into it and mentally repair the damage done to the language by the writer.  Think about a blueprint where some of the dimensions are in inches, some in feet, some in meters, and some of them don't have any measurements specified -- some of the dimensions aren't even on the paper!  If you want to understand just how large the building and the rooms actually are, you have to convert what you can and assume the rest and hope you've got it right.

 

And no, I don't have to prove snot about my knowledge of Russian, because this is an English language board.

[Iron Sage]

My post wasn't criticizing his English -- that was added for comedic value, thus the smilie.  It was criticizing the fact that he added absolutely nothing to the conversation by restating my post.

 

As for your bit about difficulties with bad grammar, I in turn cannot understand how you cannot understand our issues.  Imagine you're reading something in your native tongue (Norwegian, I assume?) and it completely lacks punctuation.  Lacks proper capitalization.  Lacks proper spelling.  It becomes a jumble of letters and spaces that might be full sentences, but you can't be sure unless you dig into it and mentally repair the damage done to the language by the writer.  Think about a blueprint where some of the dimensions are in inches, some in feet, some in meters, and some of them don't have any measurements specified -- some of the dimensions aren't even on the paper!  If you want to understand just how large the building and the rooms actually are, you have to convert what you can and assume the rest and hope you've got it right.

 

And no, I don't have to prove snot about my knowledge of Russian, because this is an English language board.

Yes, Norwegian.

 

Fair enough. I am a fairly good reader though, so I understand sentences due to syntax (i.e. if a word is missing I barely notice it as my mind immediatly inserts it so to speak), so for me it really isn`t an issue unless the post is truly, truly long etc., in which case it becomes annoying eventually. Your metaphor concerning a building blueprint is a very bad one IMO, and does not compare well at all, so I will not comment upon that.

 

The Russian bit was not serious obviously, but more a hint that you should be careful with your criticism and it appears that you did not understand that.

 

As I said, nothing I wrote was or is personal at all, and the reason I wrote it is because I have seen this "trend" to jump on bad grammar, which I find quite queer and odd to say the least (unless one has difficulties reading of course, in which case I understand you well, as I myself have been teaching people with reading issues in my job (I am a teacher).

 

Anyway, I wish you the very best of days, and again, this was not a personal "cut" or anything like that. It was just that I find it, as I said, odd, that English speakers have issues with reading bad syntax/sentence structuring in their very own language (when most non-English speakers have no such issue), and even stranger that they so often feel the need to berate non-English speakers on that account.

 

But as I said, please don`t take it as a personal insult/attack. It was certainly not.

 

Ps.For what it`s worth, I also do understand your irritation, and your obviously correct concerning him repeating your words. I just didn`t like your comment concering grammar, that`s all ;)

[the jeske]

My post wasn't criticizing his English -- that was added for comedic value, thus the smilie.  It was criticizing the fact that he added absolutely nothing to the conversation by restating my post.

 

As for your bit about difficulties with bad grammar, I in turn cannot understand how you cannot understand our issues.  Imagine you're reading something in your native tongue (Norwegian, I assume?) and it completely lacks punctuation.  Lacks proper capitalization.  Lacks proper spelling.  It becomes a jumble of letters and spaces that might be full sentences, but you can't be sure unless you dig into it and mentally repair the damage done to the language by the writer.  Think about a blueprint where some of the dimensions are in inches, some in feet, some in meters, and some of them don't have any measurements specified -- some of the dimensions aren't even on the paper!  If you want to understand just how large the building and the rooms actually are, you have to convert what you can and assume the rest and hope you've got it right.

 

And no, I don't have to prove snot about my knowledge of Russian, because this is an English language board.

try to use two translator programs to first understand something then write a semi readable anwser and we cant alk . While switching from one alphabet to another . i anwser post by post ,w hen I was writing my anwser I had not read your yet.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Sage, I wasn't trying to make it personal either, and if I came off that way I apologize.  I'm a member of the "angry at Internet people is dumb" type of thinking.  And no, I don't have reading issues; in point of fact, I have better reading and writing comprehension than about 80-90% of Americans.  I'm just used to seeing the language typed/written correctly (case in point: I refuse to acknowledge emails, text messages, and other digital forms of messaging that used leet-speak or textese).

 

Jeske: fair enough. 

[Nehekhare]

Imagine you're reading something in your native tongue (Norwegian, I assume?) and it completely lacks punctuation.  Lacks proper capitalization.  Lacks proper spelling.  It becomes a jumble of letters and spaces that might be full sentences, but you can't be sure unless you dig into it and mentally repair the damage done to the language by the writer. 

Heh, now you know how I feel when people come up with bad latin/ancient greek masquerading as "imperial high gothic"...

 

I wonder if "rule of cool" applies here, too? ;P