Non Primarch fights we would like to read.

[b1soul]

 

I think Abaddon and Sigismund will beat anyone they come up against. Personal combat is one of their primary strengths, even if we've seen precious little of it from either of them.

Sevatar is as skilled as almost any First Captain (that's why he's a First Captain) but he still had to cheat and disqualify himself rather than risk losing to Sigismund in a duel.

Soooo when is the next black legion book coming out so we can see this epic duel on paper?!?!?

Abaddon vs. Sig ... coming in 2026

[lokkorex]

Armillus Dynat versus Autek Mor.

[DuskRaider]

I'd like to see Typhon's combat prowess. He's a First Captain so he has time have some skills, but I've yet to read about him in combat. Kinda makes him seem weak.

[b1soul]

Typhon is a 1st Captain and a psyker...like Sevatar

 

Except Typhon's powers might be more bluntly destructive in comparison with Sev's combat precog

[depthcharge12]

He'll probably tie in combat against Corswain, or lose to Corswain and have big poppa Mortarion come bail him out - thus embarrassing him and making him seek more power from Nurgle.

 

He did do pretty decently up against some Iron Hands though so far.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

The problem with Psykers vs non-psykers is that the Psyker has an instant win button if they choose to use it.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The problem with Psykers vs non-psykers is that the Psyker has an instant win button if they choose to use it.

That is a flawed assumption no longer supported by game mechanics.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

 

The problem with Psykers vs non-psykers is that the Psyker has an instant win button if they choose to use it.

That is a flawed assumption no longer supported by game mechanics.

Game mechanics have nothing to do with it. Psykers will always be more capable than non-psykers because they have a weapon against which there is no defense. Sanakht actually points out in his duel with Lucius how he could easily win using his psyker abilities. Take Typhon vs Corswain, sure, Corswain is a better duelist but if Typhon decides to snap Corswain's neck no amount of skill will save him.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

 

The problem with Psykers vs non-psykers is that the Psyker has an instant win button if they choose to use it.

That is a flawed assumption no longer supported by game mechanics.

Game mechanics have nothing to do with it. Psykers will always be more capable than non-psykers because they have a weapon against which there is no defense. Sanakht actually points out in his duel with Lucius how he could easily win using his psyker abilities. Take Typhon vs Corswain, sure, Corswain is a better duelist but if Typhon decides to snap Corswain's neck no amount of skill will save him.

Until Lucius goes into a bezerk rage and makes him impossible to read. Not all psykers have the same schools and applications. A telepath cannot snap necks for example. And willpower has been known to negate psychic power as have been warding items of various nature. If a duelist hard presses a psyker and prevents him from focusing, it also inhibits thr use of powers.

Otherwise, why didn't Magnus Murder Russ?

[Runefyre]

Otherwise, why didn't Magnus Murder Russ?

I don't think we should re-open that can of worms.

But yeah psykic powers can be nullified by developing an "adamantium will"

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

 

 

 

The problem with Psykers vs non-psykers is that the Psyker has an instant win button if they choose to use it.

That is a flawed assumption no longer supported by game mechanics.

Game mechanics have nothing to do with it. Psykers will always be more capable than non-psykers because they have a weapon against which there is no defense. Sanakht actually points out in his duel with Lucius how he could easily win using his psyker abilities. Take Typhon vs Corswain, sure, Corswain is a better duelist but if Typhon decides to snap Corswain's neck no amount of skill will save him.

Until Lucius goes into a bezerk rage and makes him impossible to read. Not all psykers have the same schools and applications. A telepath cannot snap necks for example. And willpower has been known to negate psychic power as have been warding items of various nature. If a duelist hard presses a psyker and prevents him from focusing, it also inhibits thr use of powers.

Otherwise, why didn't Magnus Murder Russ?

-Lucius was empowered by Slaanesh I believe, which is a different advantage.

- I know a telepath can't snap necks I was using Typhon as an example. But he could for example make himself invisible, or cause Corswain to hallucinate.

-Willpower and nullifying artifacts can go a long way but not everyone brings them. In fact I think only Space Wolves carry them.

-Making a psyker hard-pressed in combat can also have the effect of making him use his powers unconsciously, RE Zaharaiel when he fought the Nemean Lion.

-As for Magnus vs Russ, I won't start that argument I will only say that the plot demanded that both of them survive the encounter.

[depthcharge12]

Corswain is powered by my ego. That is enough to fry a psykers mind.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

I cannot wait to see Siggy on Terra go full Champion mode, I want to see lots of named Traitors Champions brought down by him :D

[TheCelticRaven]

Moritat Prime Kaedes Nex Vs The Assassin, Exodus

 

A stealth off to end all other stealth offs.

[b1soul]

Otherwise, why didn't Magnus Murder Russ?

Russ was described as a potent anti-psyker...so he's a special exception.

 

In general, powerful psykers do enjoy a tremendous advantage over non-psykers...combat precog, warp lightning/fire, enhanced physical stats, telekinesis, blood boil, mind control, mind reading, etc.

 

Any one of the above is a massive bonus to combat effectiveness

 

It's kinda like a bolter vs. a combat knife. Yeah, in some situations, a combat knife would win (e.g. really close range)...but in most situations, the bolter wins.

 

Same with powerful psykers vs. non-psykers...in most situations, psychic powers are fight-ending

[Vesper]

I have the feeling we'll get Abaddon versus Constantin Valdor.

We know Abaddon led the Sons of Horus elite in the Inner sanctum of the Palace, murdering everyone. And it's likely Valdor hangs around there.

Also, there's no Valdor, as far as we know, post Heresy. In The Beast thingy, another dude leads the Custodes.

[HeritorA]

 

Lucius vs Lucius. The only fight Lucius would be able to win in the HH series !

Oooohhhh BURN! Yeh he thinks he's an amazing duelist yet never seems to win during any one-on-one fights.

 

Personally Raldoron vs Bjorn

Valdor vs Argel Tal

 

I'm sure there's others but meh

 

Personally Raldoron vs Bjorn - they aren't even in one league. Bjorn - is an overrated space puppy with ton of luck. Nothing else

[DuskRaider]

I have the feeling we'll get Abaddon versus Constantin Valdor.

We know Abaddon led the Sons of Horus elite in the Inner sanctum of the Palace, murdering everyone. And it's likely Valdor hangs around there.

Also, there's no Valdor, as far as we know, post Heresy. In The Beast thingy, another dude leads the Custodes.

I'm willing to bet you're right. It would go a long way to making Abaddon the combat beast we're supposed to believe he is.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

Otherwise, why didn't Magnus Murder Russ?

Russ was described as a potent anti-psyker...so he's a special exception.

 

In general, powerful psykers do enjoy a tremendous advantage over non-psykers...combat precog, warp lightning/fire, enhanced physical stats, telekinesis, blood boil, mind control, mind reading, etc.

 

Any one of the above is a massive bonus to combat effectiveness

 

It's kinda like a bolter vs. a combat knife. Yeah, in some situations, a combat knife would win (e.g. really close range)...but in most situations, the bolter wins.

 

Same with powerful psykers vs. non-psykers...in most situations, psychic powers are fight-ending

Sure, we can discount Primarchs. Thus far, word bearer apostles are getting their asses kicked pretty soundly in duels.

 

You seem to assume that psykers are on par with non-psykers in raw combat ability, and that their powers make them instantly better. (Khârn VS Erebus for example) The pursuit of psychic power comes at a tremendous cost. Powerful Psykers do not spend time in the training. We have yet to see a psyker who managed both. Some have their power focused on a more ritualistic level. Thyphon is a pretty weak psyker when you think of it. The thousand swordsman is but a low level empath. The fact that he can feel his opponent's emotion is what made him good. Not his combat skills who fel flat quickly to a proper martial swordsman, who's had his ass kickds by half the galaxy's champions. So he makes up for a not so spectacular technique with his psykic powers. This is why the librarian invariably translates into a weaker stat line than a captain or chapter master/praetor. They are not space marines +1. Sometimes it just means it evens the odds that they can enhance themselves or debuff their opponents. Being able to enhance your strenght or durability does not make you any better with weilding a blade.

 

I like your analogy of bolter Vs combat knife. Because what it really means when properly applied to the context is that the bolter is more useful in a pletora of situations, but I know which one I would rather have in a close quarter engagement: the knife. The bolter is too unwieldy for such context.

 

Many powerful psyker abilites demand a great deal of concentration, gesturing or even channeling to be called into action, to devastating effects on a battlefield. However, that translates poorly into a dueling situation as it disrupts the above.

 

As for the mentioned psyker powers, they are not so pivotal as one might think. Warp lightning/fire is not a complete trump against power armour, even less agaist artificer armour. Procog is great, but you need to have the proper combat expertise to known what to do with it. Mind reading as already been demonstrate to be flawed. Telekenis is nice, that's granted. I have yet to see any combat application of mind control.

[Jerichus]

I'd like to add a point or two onto Wolf_Pack's quite well written post.

Librarians aren't meant to be combat beasts, because if they can duel a captain-or-higher level equivalent then what's the purpose of having champions or captains? I feel like granting Psykers an "I Win" button by implying that use of psychic powers instantly equates victory saps a lot of the thematic space other characters have, and that's a potentially dangerous line of reasoning. Why have Masters of Signal when you can just use telepathy? Why use flamers or dedicated close-assault weapons, when you can just induct more psykers so they can use warp fire/lightning? It's like asking "If wizards can just make themselves into dragons why do we have non-wizard heroes?"

Even the more combat-focused of psychic abilities, namely those of the Biomancy tree and things like Zahariel's Terrorsight only either temporarily equal the playing field or make them more of a jack-of-all-trades.

I mean, Eldar are pretty much all psychic but their most potent duelists aren't very psychically active in comparison. Otherwise why isn't Eldrad the best duelist ever? Instead, the pheonix lords are generally considered to fill that roll, and even then they barely manifest psychic powers other than the inhuman speed and reflexes native to the race, and that's likely because as Wolf_Pack mentioned upkeeping your psychic might requires extensive meditation and practice. I'd like to liken it(perhaps foolishly) to a muscle, sure when you've trained it extensively, it's quite useful for one or two tasks. if you take time off of upkeeping that muscle grouping to work on another, you'll have the same amount of strength spread out, but you won't be as strong in those one or two tasks.

So, essentially, saying that Psykers are superior duelists to the most adept duelists is like saying that a man trained for shot-putting will do better than a professional runner in a 100 meter dash.

Anyway, I do want to see more from either Zahariel or Corswain. It's somewhat vague as to Corswain's skill and I'd like to see him do a bit of fighting, maybe with Typhon or a Night Lord? I also hope we get to see Zahariel do something besides sit on Caliban before the whole Luther-Lion thing happens. Ideally in an ADB or Abnett book, but maybe I'm just being too hopeful

[b1soul]

I'd like to add a point or two onto Wolf_Pack's quite well written post.

 

Librarians aren't meant to be combat beasts, because if they can duel a captain-or-higher level equivalent then what's the purpose of having champions or captains? I feel like granting Psykers an "I Win" button by implying that use of psychic powers instantly equates victory saps a lot of the thematic space other characters have, and that's a potentially dangerous line of reasoning.

Like it or not, librarians are combat beasts...at least the high-level ones are. Typically, they are not MELEE combat beasts.

 

Warp powers are...powerful.

 

TSon captains were disassembling SW dreadnoughts, smashing Custodes jetbikes together, spewing incinerating Warp fire. On the planet Shrike, they non-lethally stopped a SW charge by manipualting the SWs' nervous systems.

 

Look at Yesugai, chief Librarian of the Scars. He has the 2nd most kills in tje Vth Legion, second only to the Khan. The legion champions Qin Xa and Jubal Khan are behind him. A bunch of Salamanders and Iron Hands tried to rush him on a ship, and he easily disabled them with his powers.

[1000 Sons]

Typhus vs Garro

[Thedarkprincesnun]

I'd love to see a 40k era ahriman vs malcador fight lol

[Runefyre]

 

I'd like to add a point or two onto Wolf_Pack's quite well written post.

 

Librarians aren't meant to be combat beasts, because if they can duel a captain-or-higher level equivalent then what's the purpose of having champions or captains? I feel like granting Psykers an "I Win" button by implying that use of psychic powers instantly equates victory saps a lot of the thematic space other characters have, and that's a potentially dangerous line of reasoning.

Like it or not, librarians are combat beasts...at least the high-level ones are. Typically, they are not MELEE combat beasts.

 

Warp powers are...powerful.

 

TSon captains were disassembling SW dreadnoughts, smashing Custodes jetbikes together, spewing incinerating Warp fire. On the planet Shrike, they non-lethally stopped a SW charge by manipualting the SWs' nervous systems.

 

Look at Yesugai, chief Librarian of the Scars. He has the 2nd most kills in tje Vth Legion, second only to the Khan. The legion champions Qin Xa and Jubal Khan are behind him. A bunch of Salamanders and Iron Hands tried to rush him on a ship, and he easily disabled them with his powers.

 

But again all that power comes at a pretty high price (mutations and all that).

[DuskRaider]

Typhus vs Garro

I would love to see it come full circle, but I fear Garro would be outmatched, especially if it's post-Nurgle fall.