Dreadknights: How do you run yours?

[Rommel44]

Hey mates, with hving much success with my list currently at my hobby store at 1500 points, I have been looking to expand to where I can run 2,000 points and more and so far I have managed to purchase my 2nd Dreadknight recently. Currently, both have the same loadout, each with:

 

*Dreadknight:

-w/Heavy Incenerator, Gatling Psilencer, Personal Teleporter

 

So far, this combo has been nasty, as these guys pretty much wreck anything they come across and defensive lists behind A.D.L. have been torched turn 1 thanks to them deplying to close to the Personal Teleporters range. However, Im tempted to equip them with the Greatsword, as it seems lke a great thing to have with rerolls to hit, woumd, and Armor Penetration, but at 25 points, its fairly expensive and those points could be used for more troops. In your Opinion, is the Greatsword worth it on the Dreadknight? And alos, how do you run yours and how many do you run?

[Gentlemanloser]

There's really two ways I run mine.  Cheap, or all out.

 

NDK, Heavy Incinerator (160)

NDK, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword, Personal Teleporter (260)

 

I used to nominally be a supporter of the Gattling Psilencer, it's like having 6 stormbolters!  But it's just not worth it.  Use the points on the Greatsword.

 

Edit: When my mates aren't QQing abut the NDK, I run 2.  Would use three, but I don't own a Third.

 

In 6th, the NDK is one of the stand out powerhouses of our 'dex.

[Azekai]

I totally agree with Gentlemanloser. I like the greatsword a lot; it's like the old pre-nerf warptime (without perils!). Haven't had good experiences with the gatling psilencer, and now I am favoring a heavy incinerator.
I really need to start using the personal teleporter, but there is no way I can justify my knight titans teleporting around.

[IndigoJack]

I third the use of DK with incinerator, great sword, and teleporter. I just saw one take out two tervigons in one assualt phase.

[Zeratul29]

I go with just the heavy incinerator and teleporter. I never have the points to put the greatsword on. If i did I would though

[Vorenus]

I have had tremendous success with a Dreadknight loaded out with a Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Greatsword, and Personal Teleporter.  The total cost is 305 points I think--so it is not cheap by any means, and I know a lot of people are against putting so many points into one solitary model--but I have never had a problem making my points back and more with this bad boy.  My preferred tactic is to use the Grand Master's ability to make the Dreadknight outflanking, then bring him from reserve somewhere in the opponent's backfield near either a must-kill vehicle (or squadron of vehicles) or a blob of infantry I can burn and blast to death.  I have burned and blasted over 300 points of enemy models off the table in a single shooting phase more than once with this loadout.  After that it's just pure gravy.

 

Edit:  I should note, however, that I only take Dreadknights in games over 2000 points.

[number6]

Rather than spending 305 pts on one DK, I would rather spend 320 pts on 2 walking DKs with incinerators.

[IndigoJack]

I think the teleporters really are worth their points. That extra mobility really puts the pressure on enemy lines and takes pressure off the rest of your formidable force.

[Seahawk]

Always Teleporter, Incinerator, Greatsword. There's just no other loadout as efficient as that.

[IndigoJack]

I don't think the greatsword is mandatory. It's great, but if you need 25pts, you could definitely take it from there and not hurt the effectiveness of the dreadknight too much.

[adamv6]

Normally with 1D6 in the shooting phase. Is there a different way to run?

Heavy Incinerator and Great Sword all the way for me. PT if I can afford it, otherwise its a deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep strike and flaming fun :)

[alloyslayer]

Either just a heavy incinerator or just a tp as I like to keep them cheap

[boreas]

Greatsword and Incinerator for me. I always run them in pair and two teleporters are always too expensive. I find that I always get them in the thick of things by turn two most of the time anyways (even though i might have to run instead of shooting on turn one sometimes).

[number6]

Always Teleporter, Incinerator, Greatsword. There's just no other loadout as efficient as that.

I think you mean "powerful" instead of "efficient". Because, quite honestly, in terms of points efficiency, the instant you buy any weapon upgrade of any kind for your DK, it becomes less points efficient. A walking, bare-bones DK is very much worth 130 pts. Every upgrade you purchase past that point reduces its points efficiency. The only reason you should buy anything for your DK is because you specifically require a piece of tactical functionality for your list that only the DK can provide.

 

In my armies, I take the incinerator (and nothing else) because I otherwise have no other cover-denial weapons. It's just the way I build and play that makes the incinerator on the DK "necessary".

 

Now that the DK is base S10 and has 5 attacks on the charge, the "efficiency" of the greatsword is very debatable. That's very expensive for not really a whole lot of gain in practical terms.

 

If you buy both the GS and the teleporter, you're now only 30 pts shy of taking a full 2nd bare-bones DK! Doesn't matter that neither can shoot, it's twice as many monstrous creatures running around for your opponent to destroy.

 

Taking all of GS, teleporter, and incinerator means you've bought a 2nd DK in its entirety. In no way can you claim that a single DK with all that kit is more "efficient" than 2 bare-bones DKs.

 

You may want a flying flaming swording DK -- and it may work out well for you (it is undeniably effective) -- but in no way can you claim that to be an efficient way to spend points.

 

I would always -- always -- prefer 2 bare-bones DKs to a single fully-kitted out DK. It's twice the ultimate threat and twice the survivability for the same points expenditure. That's what "efficiency" means.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

I would always -- always -- prefer 2 bare-bones DKs to a single fully-kitted out DK. It's twice the ultimate threat and twice the survivability for the same points expenditure. That's what "efficiency" means.

 

Always? :P

 

But, but, that would mean you couldn't run that second Dread!

[Seahawk]

Fair enough. 

 

I laugh (inwardly) whenever opponents use non-jumping dreadknights. They are such non-threats because of their distinct lack of speed that I just ignore them for the first three turns, then kill them sometime during the next two because the rest of the army is already dead or dying. Their speed and maneuverability is unmatched except for Interceptor squads, and Emperor help you if you're playing Hammer and Anvil (which always seems to come up), much less against a shooty army. 

 

Just my opinion. :D

[IndigoJack]

And I would also add that the great sword is very much worth it's points. Being a to re-roll hit and wound against monstrous creatures (especially with iron arms) is going to do well. You want every chance possible to score that wound you need to activate your force weapon. Re-rolling hits and wounds also helps against tarpit units as you are ale to cut through them faster.

 

Another advantage of the teleporter is using a grand master for something other than scoring (heresy, I know), like scouting. DKs with a 12" scout move are going to make opponents sweat before the game even begins. I admit that the teleporter really comes down to play style, and that I've seen deep striking DKs work, but deep striking comes with its own problems.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Not optional:

 

- Teleporter: Never, ever leave Titan without that upgrade. Mine routinely eats entire armies worth of gunfire, sometimes counter-charges as well. I'm feeling ahead of the curve if he lands in enemy lines (shunt Turn 1 if you can, Turn 2 minimum) with 2 wounds. He then usually eats 2 squads minimum, sometimes a vehicle/MC, then dies. Without the teleporter, he would simply die in my DZ by Turn 2, having achieved nothing most likely. You aren't fielding two DK's, because A: you don't have the Heavy Slots (two PsyDreads, factory standard) and B: two Slowpokes < Speedy Gonzales. I've played a lot of games with the DK, and I'm telling you now, he doesn't make melee without the teleporter. Take it, make your opponents weep bitter tears as you shunt past whatever screen they put up. 

- Greatsword: It makes him reliable. WS5 may sound reliable, but even with 5 attacks on the charge I've seen him fail horribly. It's the price of a powerfist, it is actually underpriced if anything. The hammer is worthless by comparison, and it is less than half in cost. He retained character status after the FAQ, so in challenges, you definitely want those re-rolls. 

 

Optional:

- Heavy incinerator: When I can scrape the points together, its fantastic. However, it should always be viewed as something to invest in after the above two upgrades. 

- Heavy psycannon: Infantry are getting pushed more in 6th over vehicles. I've tried it out a few times, its not bad. Incinerator doesn't miss though, and ignoring cover is money in 6th (between Shrouded, Night Fight, Aegis lines etc). It is also more expensive than the incinerator. Eh, personal choice. 

 

Not even once:

- Heavy psilencer: Just no. Every other model in our list packs S4 shooting (at least). Functionally, either of the other two weapon systems perform better against Daemons anyway. I know it looks cool, but sadly not all gatling guns are good. 

[number6]

Fair enough.

I laugh (inwardly) whenever opponents use non-jumping dreadknights. They are such non-threats because of their distinct lack of speed that I just ignore them for the first three turns, then kill them sometime during the next two because the rest of the army is already dead or dying.

In my personal experience -- including the last two tournaments I've played in -- my singular, foot-slogging DK has died only once in the last 8 games I've played.

I don't stick any single unit out to be singled out as the "obvious" early kill. My entire army stays coherent and presents as many roughly equivalent threats as it is possible to do to confuse and dilute target priority.

And part of the reason my DK survives so well -- and has such a huge impact starting on the 2nd turn (I do take that incinerator, remember) -- is because it is so clearly ignorable for at least the 1st turn. (Assuming I deploy it. The non-jumping DK makes a fine reserve element in the right game situations.)

Starting at about the 2nd game turn, the DK also adds its threat to my army's overall threat. My opponent could try and take it out -- may even succeed, but to do requires a focus that ignores my multitude of scoring units all right there by the DK's side, plus my dreads, etc., etc.

A walking DK is not truly "ignorable", in the long run. Nor "useless". Provided you put him in the right list and use him the right way. The more points I pour into that guy, the higher up the threat level he rises, the more likely he is to be destroyed earlier in the game.

I prefer my DK to stick around for a while, frying infantry and dissuading the enemy from assaulting my softer infantry.

I've played a lot of games with the DK, and I'm telling you now, he doesn't make melee without the teleporter.

Well. That's ... factually untrue for me. He makes melee almost every game in which he plays. He can walk there. You just have to be sure he's got buddies that also look threatening. Or, make sure he's there to intercept aggressive opponents. Works either way.

[IndigoJack]

With few exceptions, a walking dread knight isn't going to make it into combat until turn 3. That means two turns of shooting before you even get there. I know most of my lists could handle taking a dread knight out in two turns, two would be a challenge, but I could tar pit the last one long enough to keep it from being effective. Honestly, I'd have to see your army list to understand how you make it work, but I've never had a problem against walking dread knights.

 

As far as shunting goes, I'd rather save it for late game objective denial. A DK sitting on an objective turn 5 can be difficult to remove late game, even if it only has 1 or 2 wounds on it.

[boreas]

I'm surprised too.. It takes about 14 MeQ  plasmagun shots to kill a DK. Or 15 Guard lascannon. Any units with plasma/melta/lascannon will be number one target  for my HI or any other shooting... I've yet to lose my two DKs in a game (I lost one to a Psychic power in a real funny way: the guy rolled "2" for AP and "12" for strength (causing ID). I fumbled my Deny the Witch and 2+ save!).

 

And two DKs 12" apart cover a huge threat area of more that 3 feet by 2 feet, so then whole middle of the table (and objectives) are mine if you "avoid" them. 

 

As for the Greatsword, it's a must for me. When I assault that Landraider or MC, I really want to kill it in one turn.

[Gentlemanloser]

I thought S was capped at 10? :(

[boreas]

I thought S was capped at 10?

Come to think of it, I think it is!!! But really, it ws bottom of turn 3 and my good rolls combined with his poor saved had his Spave Wolves pretty much tabled (at 1500pts, he had 6-7 models left on his side, only 3 models lost on a GKSS unit on my side, a real boring massacre), so in the heat of the moment we had a real good laugh...

[number6]

With few exceptions, a walking dread knight isn't going to make it into combat until turn 3. That means two turns of shooting before you even get there. I know most of my lists could handle taking a dread knight out in two turns, two would be a challenge, but I could tar pit the last one long enough to keep it from being effective.

I don't actually deny what you're saying. My counter is that the resources required to deal with any dreadknight -- let alone two -- requires that the rest of my army be given a much of a pass. That's the point.

Honestly, I'd have to see your army list to understand how you make it work, but I've never had a problem against walking dread knights.

Allow me to direct you to battle reports of my experiences at Con of the North last month. I played Ork Nob Bikers w/flyer support, Necron flying circus, and the pre-new-codex Daemons. Three very different opponents. The dreadknight was a star in all those games.

[spartan249]

I'm rather surprised to hear that NDKs are doing well at all. They don't trade very well, and they're honestly not very hard to kill (At least not as hard as some of us are claiming they are). 

 

Take, for instance, a very common occurance in my matches. My henchmen, Strike Squads, and Stormraven peel open a few chimeras/manticores, leaving a few infantry units exposed. My NDKs can then each flame an infantry squad and maybe annihilate one. All things said, what have I killed with my 2000 point army? ~400 points worth of assets if I'm spot on with everything (... I can count on my hands the times that's happened). The shooting phase back? I've probably lost anywhere from 1 to 2 strike squads, a couple of bolter acos, and I'll be lucky if my NDKs are holding on by a thread. Average losses equate to about 700 points gone. It becomes worse from there, as I have much less firepower while my opponent is barely affected by losses. All things told, the NDKs have killed 100, perhaps 150 points before they are slagged. When I've spent 235 to kill ~125 points, I'm not happy at all. Perhaps it gets better in MEQ match-ups, but I still have my doubts in that regard, as they still don't work very efficiently no matter what kinds of tricks I pull. 

 

Perhaps it's just my set of circumstances, but I don't see their worth, and I wouldn't recommend them in general.