Dreadknights: How do you run yours?

[number6]

@spartan249: IndigoJack said virtually everything I would have said.

But in addition, having read about how you designed and play your army ... I agree with you in the context of your specific army build. It sounds like a dreadknight would stick out like a sore thumb in your particular setup. But that doesn't render him useless. Just useless .. FOR YOU.

If you haven't yet, read my batreps from Con of the North. Walking DK. Semi-mechanized army. It plays well and even when it is dealt a hand that is virtually guaranteed a defeat (i.e., my 3rd game! ) it manages to put up a serious fight and take the game down to the wire. You should note that it's my walking Dreadknight that pulls a lot of the weight.

How "good" something is (or isn't) depends mightily on circumstances. Not on broad statements of "fact" based on a very narrow set of experiences.

[thade]

How "good" something is (or isn't) depends mightily on circumstances. Not on broad statements of "fact" based on a very narrow set of experiences.

This is said so often on this board and falls just as often upon deaf ears. It is so absolutely true that, really, if you read it and think "Nah" you really should reread it again and again, until you can firmly revise that reaction to "Well, maybe."

[Gentlemanloser]

Tell that to the Culexus. ;)

 

Seriosuly, there are some units, so bad, you just have to shake your head and ask yourself what on earth GW were thinking...

[thade]

Seriosuly, there are some units, so bad, you just have to shake your head and ask yourself what on earth GW were thinking...

I suspect I know precisely what they were thinking. They were thinking something rather like this: "This is thematically cool and could prove a lot of fun." They design models and stories that are meant to play into their "Everybody is in really, really deep trouble" grimdark setting. They do not design models for tactical perfection and exacting balance. Really, their competitors plain do it better, but have 1. far smaller model lines and 2. settings that are far less interesting. GW plays to their strength, which is not competitive game design. It's models and story.

[Gentlemanloser]

Sadly, you'll notice the decline in sales (and presumably players) due to the continually falling standards of rules GW is producing.

 

Regardless of the new 'cool' minis that are coming out.

 

(Personal preference, but come on GW, you *didn't* update the crappy old blocky anime tau? Smoother, sleeker anime design would have had folk flocking to them...)

[thade]

Sadly, you'll notice the decline in sales (and presumably players) due to the continually falling standards of rules GW is producing.

Their ever-rising stock price begs to differ with you there. While we old coots may not approve of their business decisions (I admit I don't like a lot of them) they are making them money, and I still like the setting and my models.

 

In any event, let us segue back to the topic at hand. No need for Yet Another GW Business Practices thread. <3

[Zeratul29]

Personally, number 6'a batreps have made me want to try my dreadknight walking on the field now

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

I suspect I know precisely what they were thinking. They were thinking something rather like this: "This is thematically cool and could prove a lot of fun." They design models and stories that are meant to play into their "Everybody is in really, really deep trouble" grimdark setting. They do not design models for tactical perfection and exacting balance. Really, their competitors plain do it better, but have 1. far smaller model lines and 2. settings that are far less interesting. GW plays to their strength, which is not competitive game design. It's models and story.

Which sucks. You can make units that are cool and competitive. In fact, as even a cursory look at the unit entry reveals, GW weren't even that far off making each of the Assassins relevant. The addition of a few special rules (for positioning) and some tweaks to their wargear would do it. Same for Stern, Crowe...

 

It's sorta stupid when the player base can figure out better rules for some of the sub-par units in the game. GW has even FAQ'd things in the past, due to player feedback about how the rules don't work/are broken/don't interact properly. 

[awfulawful]

/self faceplam

I'm not even going to edit my post!

Awful GL, just awful...

I'm sorry, did you need me for something?

[Rommel44]

Seems like we are getting a bit off topic mates lol. However I think I failed to mention but Im running a PURE Henchman army. Currently my list is made up of Coteaz, 5x Squads of 12x Acolytes in Chimeras, 3x squads with 3x plasma, 2x squads with 3x Meltas, Ageis Defense Line with a squad of henchman with 3x Plasma Cannon Servitors, and a Stormraven, with the remainging Henchman having Bolters baring the ones with special weapons. At the moment, I have my 2x Dreadknights built up with:

 

*Greatsword, Personal Teleporter, Incenerator

 

Seems to be the most basic build and it has proven effective, however I think there is a lot of people underestimating the Heavy Gatling Psilencer. Yes, its only S4, but similar to the IG Punisher argument, it can dish out a ton of shots, and it has been really effective in my personal experience for the most part, but then again its everyones preference. Been wanting to test out the Heavy Psycannon as just from the sounds of it, it can be very nasty.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Seems like we are getting a bit off topic mates lol. However I think I failed to mention but Im running a PURE Henchman army. Currently my list is made up of Coteaz, 5x Squads of 12x Acolytes in Chimeras, 3x squads with 3x plasma, 2x squads with 3x Meltas, Ageis Defense Line with a squad of henchman with 3x Plasma Cannon Servitors, and a Stormraven, with the remainging Henchman having Bolters baring the ones with special weapons. At the moment, I have my 2x Dreadknights built up with:

 

*Greatsword, Personal Teleporter, Incenerator

Sounds good. I'd use the shunt early on to get into good flanking positions. With two DK's, you can threaten both flanks and force them to bunch up the middle, which makes your plasma cannons even more clutch. Sounds like a cool list. Any cargo for the Raven, or is it just in there for anti-Flyer/tank mobile platform?

 

 

Seems to be the most basic build and it has proven effective, however I think there is a lot of people underestimating the Heavy Gatling Psilencer. Yes, its only S4, but similar to the IG Punisher argument, it can dish out a ton of shots, and it has been really effective in my personal experience for the most part, but then again its everyones preference. Been wanting to test out the Heavy Psycannon as just from the sounds of it, it can be very nasty.

It's okay I guess. The reason no one takes it is redundancy, seeing as all Knights have storm bolters by default, we don't lack S4. I'd find other uses for the points TBH. 

 

Heavy psycannon is very variable. Rending is an unreliable mechanic, and being a blast weapon with BS4, you often only catch 3-4 models due to smart spacing by your opponent. Again, often I can find better uses for the same points. Heavy incinerator never misses, the Torrent rule means placement is completely up to you within that 12" sweet spot, and it ignores cover. IG and Orks are the new black for Allies, due to cheap and effective blobs for scoring. Heavy psycannon doesn't do anything the incinerator already does to that kinda target. But by all means, test out the heavy psycannon, see if it suits your local meta. 

[Rommel44]

At the moment, I am debating on running 2x small 5x man squads of Warrior Acolytes with Meltas for the sole purpose of Tank-Hunting, however currently I dont run anything in my Ravens, as I dont have the points to do it really at the moment but it is something I will look to try sometime in the future. As for the Heavy Psycannon, I have seen it in action a few times and have tested it out and to be honest Im not liking it, as it usually scatters all over and it never really seems worth the points overall. Also been considering dropping the Ravens in favor of IG Allies, so that way I can field a battery of 3x Hydras and a sqaud of IG to go with my Henchman Squad behind the Aegis Defense Line. I know flyers are good, however I have so much twin-linked shooting in my army already that I should be alright against flying-heavy lists, and the Hydras will help out a lot in that reguard.

 

Also feels like Im the only one still supporting the Gatling Psilenser at the moment, which is a shame. Recently, I played against a Dark Angel army and both Dreadknights combined wiped out a 10x Deathwing Terminator Squad w/a Chaplan, and the Psilensers played a major part by mowing down 6x of them before the CC phase. This is just one example but time and time again, these guys have killed tons with the Gatling Psilenser, and with more and more armies going infantry heavy, I feel that they can still be worth the points. 20x Shots at a unit will do wounds, there is no way to avoid it.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

Their ever-rising stock price begs to differ with you there.

 

There's quite an interesting blog post on YTTH about this.  Comparing GW to Apple.  Can't link it, it's blocked at work due to profanity. ;)

 

Can't say I have any background/knowledge of economics, so can't really contribute to that discussion, or judge the validity of it.  Sadly.

[treadhead]

Greatsword, teleporter, incinerator and gatling psilencer for me

I just like the deep strike, deep fry and then lay in some dakka, ok

[IndigoJack]

If you're going to deep strike it, why get the teleporter?

[treadhead]

late game mobility with the shunt and in game utility (ie jump pack charge rerolls etc)

[IndigoJack]

In my experience, NDKs rarely last until late game and if you're running them as a shooting platform (as it seems to me like you are) you can save 100 pts just by dropping the greatsword and the teleporter. Making them both a shooting and assault unit just inflates their cost without adding to their survivability.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

At the moment, I am debating on running 2x small 5x man squads of Warrior Acolytes with Meltas for the sole purpose of Tank-Hunting, however currently I dont run anything in my Ravens, as I dont have the points to do it really at the moment but it is something I will look to try sometime in the future. As for the Heavy Psycannon, I have seen it in action a few times and have tested it out and to be honest Im not liking it, as it usually scatters all over and it never really seems worth the points overall. Also been considering dropping the Ravens in favor of IG Allies, so that way I can field a battery of 3x Hydras and a sqaud of IG to go with my Henchman Squad behind the Aegis Defense Line. I know flyers are good, however I have so much twin-linked shooting in my army already that I should be alright against flying-heavy lists, and the Hydras will help out a lot in that reguard.

 

I'd take a Vendetta squadron over a Hydra squadron dude. Twin lascannons obliterate a lot of things autocannon won't, plus they have AV12 all around and Flyer protections (Jink, Snap Fire against it etc). Vendettas are a much better investment than Ravens in the gunship role, the reason you'd take Ravens is to transport Knight or Henchmen units (damn 'Convienience' restrictions, grrr...). 

 

Taking IG to camp the Aegis line is a good choice, especially if you go blob. They're way better as a backfield scoring asset than Strikes could ever hope to be, and they're cheaper than Henchmen (although not as powerful obviously). 

 

 

In my experience, NDKs rarely last until late game and if you're running them as a shooting platform (as it seems to me like you are), its a mistake because PsyDreads are better. Just take the greatsword and the teleporter. Making them both a shooting and assault unit just inflates their cost without adding to their survivability.

fixed. 

[Justicar Enethys]

 

 

In my experience, NDKs rarely last until late game and if you're running them as a shooting platform (as it seems to me like you are), its a mistake because PsyDreads are better. Just take the greatsword and the teleporter. Making them both a shooting and assault unit just inflates their cost without adding to their survivability.

fixed. 

 

This. Though adding a Heavy Incinerator for some pre-charge love is nice ;)