Resurrection

[Greylocke]

Brothers and Sisters,

 

Greetings. I am new to B&C but quite old to the game. Unfortunately I have not played since 3rd ed. Next month an old friend of mine who I introduced to the game in 94 will be in town and wants to play a "friendly" game, i.e. War to the Knife. I have scanned this forum and others, read the current rulebook and codex twice and think I have a decent list (2000pts). I will admit that some of my choices where based on the troops I have at hand.

 

My opponent has been playing through the years and has an up to date list. I only know that he will be playing BAs but have not seen his list. I would very much like to hear everyone's opinions of what I'm taking to the fight. I would also like to thank everyone for the inspiration of your many posts.

 

Njal in TDA

Wolf Priest in RA with SB, WTN, Hunter

WG-Arjac, WGX2 TDA with 2xClaws, WGX2 TDA with SS & Frost Blade, WGX3 TDA with SB & PW

(much of my WG choices are based on models available so do critique this section hard. Looking to put the 3 with SB & PW with GH packs, the rest as Njal's retinue.)

Lone Wolf 2XPlasma Pistol, MoW, 2XFen Wolves

3XGH packs with 2XPlasma Gun, PW, Standard, MoW 

LF pack with 5XLascannon

2XLF pack with 5XML

3XFen Wolves

 

Thanks. For Russ!

 

[dswanick]

Njal in TDA

- rock on.  Njal is cool, even if he isn't uber-competative.

Wolf Priest in RA with SB, WTN, Hunter

WG-Arjac, WGX2 TDA with 2xClaws, WGX2 TDA with SS & Frost Blade, WGX3 TDA with SB & PW

(much of my WG choices are based on models available so do critique this section hard. Looking to put the 3 with SB & PW with GH packs, the rest as Njal's retinue.)

- for the two with Wolf Claws, I'd consider snipping of the claw on one hand and run Wolf Claw/Power Fist.  Same cost, still gives the model +1A, but offers the choice of either S User / AP 3 / I User or S UserX2 / AP 2 / I 1 as needed.

Lone Wolf 2XPlasma Pistol, MoW, 2XFen Wolves

- super-rock on!  I love my Plasma Gunslinger.

3XGH packs with 2XPlasma Gun, PW, Standard, MoW

- In a 2k list, I usually want to see four to five packs.  Is this doable?  Even if they are just five man packs with no frills (75pts each).

LF pack with 5XLascannon

- Personally, I'd at least consider putting four of the five Lascannons from here into each of the two ML packs.  Diversify your packs and someone fielding AV14 will have more trouble killing off those Lascannons.  Fire Control will still allow them to focus on a Land Raider or Vindicator (and C:BA do love their Fast Vindicators...) without being singled out.

2XLF pack with 5XML

3XFen Wolves

 

And : Welcome back.

[Astoran]

Welcome back and give the sparkly guys a run for their money!

[Wulfebane]

WG-Arjac, WGX2 TDA with 2xClaws, WGX2 TDA with SS & Frost Blade, WGX3 TDA with SB & PW

(much of my WG choices are based on models available so do critique this section hard. Looking to put the 3 with SB & PW with GH packs, the rest as Njal's retinue.)

- for the two with Wolf Claws, I'd consider snipping of the claw on one hand and run Wolf Claw/Power Fist.  Same cost, still gives the model +1A, but offers the choice of either S User / AP 3 / I User or S UserX2 / AP 2 / I 1 as needed.

 

And : Welcome back.

I concur.

 

Good god 5 lascannons... That eats up a lot of points that they likely won't make up before dying.

[Greylocke]

dswanick,

 

Thanks for the assist. It spurred a few follow up questions.

-Njal, not uber competative? Is there a better HQ choice?

-Wolf Claw/PFist combo. I get the utility, very nice. I had chosen 2XClaws for rending. Is rending not as good as it sounds?

-Gunslinger. Yeah I read meatcabor's post and had to have it!

-Smaller/more GH packs. I was thinking 2 packs on the table to start and have the 3rd outflank with the WP. What would be the initial set-up/tactics with the smaller packs? I'm worried about cc with Sang Guard or DC. I see a running gunfight across the table to the side with the LFs to stretch out his troops. Then have Njal, WG and WP, GH surge in and hammer his scoring units.

-LF packs. Awesome advice! If points allow would 3XPacks with 2XLC and 3XML be better? What about PC or MM?

 

Redbeard,

 

Thanks for the well wishes brother.

 

For Russ!

[dswanick]

-Njal, not uber competative? Is there a better HQ choice?

For messing with an opponent's Psychic powers, there is no better choice.  Plus he brings all those neat table-wide rules.

For direct melee power, you can get a tricked-out Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf for less points who will absolutely wreck face in CC.

For overall army buffing, Logan (general) and Ragnar (CC) are better choices.

It all depends on what you want from your HQ choices.

 

 

-Wolf Claw/PFist combo. I get the utility, very nice. I had chosen 2XClaws for rending. Is rending not as good as it sounds?

Rending is a great USR, but you won't be getting it from Wolf Claws.

 

-Gunslinger. Yeah I read meatcabor's post and had to have it!

 

-Smaller/more GH packs. I was thinking 2 packs on the table to start and have the 3rd outflank with the WP. What would be the initial set-up/tactics with the smaller packs? I'm worried about cc with Sang Guard or DC. I see a running gunfight across the table to the side with the LFs to stretch out his troops. Then have Njal, WG and WP, GH surge in and hammer his scoring units.

My usual approach is one large Grey Hunter pack outflanking with the SotH Wolf Priest, two large packs in Rhinos moving to mid-field to control the table, and two small (5-man), bare-bones packs with flamers in the back field baby-sitting my Long Fangs and scoring objectives.

 

-LF packs. Awesome advice! If points allow would 3XPacks with 2XLC and 3XML be better? What about PC or MM?

When it comes to my Heavy Support, I'm a bit of a maverick.  My first pack is always 2X Plasma Cannons, 2X Heavy Bolters, a squad leader, and a WG Pack Leader in a Razorback.  They charge forward with two of my Grey Hunter packs, then provide heavy, short range fire support for them.  They've never failed to butcher some enemies.
Then I field one or two more packs of Long Fangs (2X Lascannons, 3X Missile Launchers) for the Long Range firepower support.

[Greylocke]

The dude abides, brother. I'm going to take your advice on board. Thanks for showing an old dog the way of the future. I really appreciate it.

 

For Russ!

[Ghostwolfalpha]

I like njal very much, but make sure to insulate him with plenty of bodies. He will be a bullet magnet. Against BA, tempests wrath will be nice to limit the mobility of his jump packs.

 

Wolf Priests in RA cant take Saga of the Hunter. Despite fluff saying Runic Armour is upgraded power armour, per the rules they are not the same.

 

I agree about splitting up the las fangs, against another meq army, I have found vindicators to be invaluable, plus, people tend to shoot all their big guns at it, giving your WGTDA and troops time to move up the board and get into position.

 

Beware the Storm Raven, SW have a hard time taking on flyers and this thing had more guns then it knows what to do with.

[WG Vrox]

 

Wolf Priests in RA cant take Saga of the Hunter. Despite fluff saying Runic Armour is upgraded power armour, per the rules they are not the same.

 

Has this been FAQ'd. I have not seen a ruling? 

[dswanick]

 

 

Wolf Priests in RA cant take Saga of the Hunter. Despite fluff saying Runic Armour is upgraded power armour, per the rules they are not the same.

 

Has this been FAQ'd. I have not seen a ruling? 

It has not.  As such, you will get people who will cling stubbornly to their interpretation (both sides).  For what it's worth :

"These suits of power armour, ancient beyond reckoning,", C:SW, pg.61"

seems pretty clear.  Especially when you then look at Njal and his Armor :

"Runic Terminator Armour: Njal alone has the skill to ensorcel suits of Terminator armour. He has a 2+ armour save and a 4+ invulnerable save.", C:SW, pg.53

By the same logic, Njal's armor isn't Terminator Armor because it's only the fluff name which identifies it as such and because it doesn't even say he's wearing such a suit.  The rules only say he has a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable Save.  Therefore Njal doesn't take up 2 Transport Capacity spots and can embark in Rhinos and Razorbacks, when wearing his Runic Terminator Armor.

 

But this has been debated extensively:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/264087

[WG Vrox]

WG Vrox, on 13 Mar 2013 - 11:06, said:

Quote

Wolf Priests in RA cant take Saga of the Hunter. Despite fluff saying Runic Armour is upgraded power armour, per the rules they are not the same.

Has this been FAQ'd. I have not seen a ruling?

It has not. As such, you will get people who will cling stubbornly to their interpretation (both sides). For what it's wor

I do not understand why someone would then make a statement such as this, sure give links to the thread and say you may want to be aware of this issue, but do not make the statement as if it has a definitive ruling. It only confuses people.

[dswanick]

 

I do not understand why someone would then make a statement such as this, sure give links to the thread and say you may want to be aware of this issue, but do not make the statement as if it has a definitive ruling.  It only confuses people.  

The only definitive statement I made was that it has not been FAQd, which it has not...

[WG Vrox]

 

Wolf Priests in RA cant take Saga of the Hunter.

 

 This has not been ruled on, let people make their own decisions until then. 

[Rift Blade]

@ Greylocke--good luck & good hunting.

 

@ Dswanick--love the logic on the RA arguemnet & pointing out Njal's Termie Armour. That's gonna give some of the guys at my local club fits!!I LOVE it!!!LOL!!!! Thank you very much.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

The reason I put it as an absolute, is my local GW says that Runic Armour isn't Power Armour. Plus, since when had fluff been legal tender for rules? If they intended for Runic armour to be Power Armour, then why not say no Terminator Armour instead of only Power Armour. To me this argument is nothing more then wishfull thinking on our part. (I would love it just as much as the next wolf if a WP could have RA) I use a SotH WP in most of my games and I have had great success with them and every ruling anyone with authority has layed down has said that RA is not PA.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but under Njal wargear list it says Terminator Armour, right? I dont have the book in front of me.

 

Anyways, we digress from the topic, which is helping our brother beat some pretty boy ass.

 

I use BA allies on occasion, and a WGTDA with a Power Sword or Wolf Claw will chew up a squad of Assault Marines, also sneaking in another PW or MotW to deal with the unit while the WG handles challenges has worked out very well for me in the past, not being able to Sweeping advance has bite me in the ass a couple of times, but I feel the pros outweigh the cons.

 

Again, sorry if I stepped on anyones toes brothers, but I dont see the confusion on RA vs PA. A grape is not a raisin and vice versa. Despite once being the same, they are now different.

[dswanick]

since when had fluff been legal tender for rules?

What makes a Tau Pulse Rifle subject to Grey Knights Plasma Syphon? Only the fluff which describes it as plasma-based. Look, if you think you have the winning argument, post it in the +OR+ thread. Until then, there are plenty of examples of fluff informing GW rules, and the fluff is pretty clear that Runic Armor is Power Armor with some sigils painted on it. Unless those sigils somehow make the armor less stealth, then some of us are going to play it this way. And until GW FAQs it one way or the other, no one can claim lock on this debate.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

 

 

since when had fluff been legal tender for rules?

What makes a Tau Pulse Rifle subject to Grey Knights Plasma Syphon? Only the fluff which describes it as plasma-based. Look, if you think you have the winning argument, post it in the +OR+ thread. Until then, there are plenty of examples of fluff informing GW rules, and the fluff is pretty clear that Runic Armor is Power Armor with some sigils painted on it. Unless those sigils somehow make the armor less stealth, then some of us are going to play it this way. And until GW FAQs it one way or the other, no one can claim lock on this debate.

I stand corrected.

 

Its not that it makes it less stealthy, just that it is an invaluable resource not ment for recon and such. I can understand both sides of the argument, and hope that RA can be used.

 

Can you give us a battle report on your fight against the BA if its not to much trouble? I am very interested in how your list will work out.

[Valerian]

Here is how I have explained this issue in the past:

Look at the entry for Runic Armour. Tell me which part is fluff and which part is rule? How can you tell the difference? Are they written in different font? Are they given some sort of special heading before each section that designates which is which? Are players told elsewhere in the rules which parts of an entry to follow, and which to disregard?

 

These are all rhetorical questions, as I'm pretty sure the answer to all of them is no, the rules designers have not created the codices in such a way. One argument can be made against: and this argument is simply this "Runic Armour cannot be Power Armour, because it costs +20 points and has different stats, as well as a different name". However, an argument can be made for, and that argument is this: "in the codex entry for Runic Armour it states explicitly that it is a type of Power Armour". This statements leads to the logical expression that "not all Power Armour is Runic Armour, but all Runic Armour is Power Armour." This is the position that I've been swayed by. It might not be the one everyone agrees to.

Regards,

 

Valerian

[Greylocke]

Ghostwolfalpha, thanks for the tactical insight on BAs. It sounds like if my opponent will agree that RA is PA then I'm good. If not then I won't use it. Also sounds like using it with SotH in a tourney is probably not the way to go. Once again thanks to all for the advice and well wishes.

 

And now to the lab for some refit and repair to an army that hasn't taken the field since the 90's.

 

For Russ!

[dswanick]

Can you give us a battle report on your fight against the BA if its not to much trouble? I am very interested in how your list will work out.

Seconded.

[Howland Greywolfe]

Thirded for the battle report.

[Greylocke]

Brothers and Sisters,

 

My battle report as requested. My friend and I decided we wanted a dense terrain to fight over so we loaded the table with a city fight environment that was near necromundian. We also decided to go for five rounds. At the end I won with four of 6 objectives. My Wolf Lord on a TW and his TWC actually met Dante and his retinue in the fourth round however our poor rolls in this skirmish turned what should have been an epic fight into a sideshow that truely had no bearing on the game.

 

My plasma gunslinger LW had an awesome run taking down six of ten Death Company before finally re-joining his original pack.

 

The MVPs of the match were definitely my Las Cannon toting LFs. These old vets came in, set up and quietly got down to business. In round one they smoked a Baal Pred and immobilized a Lib Dread. Round two they finished the Dread and with the help of the missileers shot his Storm Raven out of the sky. A great moral victory for me and a back breaker to my friends pride. Round three all my LFs had in range was his Furio Dread so the overkill commenced. Round four they had no targets. Round five they wiped out his bolter scout squad in hand to hand just to add insult to injury.

 

All in all a great game with much trash talking and drinking of beer. It was an awesome way to get back into the game after so long and as I move up to Maryland this summer I hope to find some good games/tourneys. Thanks again for all the advice on my list. I surely would have been kicked in the teeth without it.

 

My MVP Long Fangs can been seen in my gallery.

For Russ!

[Kassill]

^^^ Now that is what it is all about! Hear hear! *raises a horn to Greylocke's victory*


Glad your return was a successful one brother! And welcome to the Fang!

[Ghostwolfalpha]

Nice. Give those pretty boys a beating. Thanks for the report and congrats on your victory. Glad the advice worked out for you.