alloyslayer Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 1 do all nemesis force weapons have the deamon bane rule? 2 can paladins accept/issue challenges? I think I already know the answers to these questions but just want confirmation, thanks in advance guys Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 1.) Yes they do 2.) No they cant Hope this helps! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alloyslayer Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Thanks darkmagi Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradali Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I think if you have an apothecary in the unit then they can accept/issue challenges as its like a sargent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 No. IF the Apothecary would count as a sargent (and it does not) only the model itself could accept challenges and not suddenly every model in the whole unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 There's no harm in the clarification, but I think by "they" that Bradali was referring to the Apothecary only. I may be wrong. However it's true: the Apothecary is not a Character, and (after one of the FAQs) Paladins do not each count as Characters either. So, no challenges for them. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 But the apothecary has its own stat line. Doesn't that mean that it is indeed a character like any other squad upgrade (i.e., a tac squad sgt)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Having your own stat line doesn't necessarily mean their a character. You'd have to reference the back of the BYB to find out if they're a character or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Having your own stat line doesn't necessarily mean their a character. You'd have to reference the back of the BYB to find out if they're a character or not.Don't have the rulebook handy. But I don't recall seeing every model that is considered a character in that reference. Maybe they do? But ... I just don't remember seeing, e.g., Justicars listed there. Or tac sergeants, etc. Gah! I need an instant answer! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 It's a bit of a mess but if you browse through the rulebook reference section and the according erratas you should find that every model that is a character has it referenced in it's unit type. Like "Jump Infantry (character)". If neither the rulebook or the errata says so it's not a character at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfulawful Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Having your own stat line doesn't necessarily mean their a character. You'd have to reference the back of the BYB to find out if they're a character or not.Don't have the rulebook handy. But I don't recall seeing every model that is considered a character in that reference. Maybe they do? But ... I just don't remember seeing, e.g., Justicars listed there. Or tac sergeants, etc. Gah! I need an instant answer! That was changed in the FAQ for the main rule book. Unit type for Paladins was changed to Infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3327987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Man, why couldn't they have left Pally's as a unit of characters? It was fun and awesome, and completely matched the unit (they are essentially a squad of the chapter's most lethal heroes, BC's/GM's in waiting etc). Ah well. Apothecary is still good though, FNP is like re-rolls to your invul save now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3329716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Because it was very broken when every person in the unit could look out sir. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3329743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Not really. Its only on a 4+, and it does nothing against the ID or AP2 wounds that kill off Pally's anyway. You might be keeping the psycannons or Apothecary alive longer, but its really just delaying the inevitable. Anyway, they don't have it anymore, so moot point really. I just reckon making them a character unit was cool and fit them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3330097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Except you could spread wounds around similar to the way you could in 5th (albeit, only on a 4+). This is huge for two wound models, as killing off the first rank to open range between you and them becomes that much harder. It was an easily abused rule and pallystars and nob bikerstars are the reason the rules were changed in the first place. Yes, it was so broken that even GW realized this and changed the rules. Not FAQ'd or errata'd for clarity, but fundamentally changed. Something GW isn't exactly known for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3330106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidicul Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The DA codex established that apothecarys are charetaters and the BRB only uses sergeant as its the most common, since our KoF/Justicars are the same as a sergeant they also count as characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3330179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Except you could spread wounds around similar to the way you could in 5th (albeit, only on a 4+). This is huge for two wound models, as killing off the first rank to open range between you and them becomes that much harder. It was an easily abused rule and pallystars and nob bikerstars are the reason the rules were changed in the first place. Yes, it was so broken that even GW realized this and changed the rules. Not FAQ'd or errata'd for clarity, but fundamentally changed. Something GW isn't exactly known for. Who tries to attrition Pallystars? Dumbest strategy ever. Apply S8 and preferably AP2 to go with it, that is how you kill them. Even meltaguns are cost-effective when the unit is basically one third/half your points down the drain. It's still only a 4+, and you still take the unsaved wound. Old wound allocation happened before saves, that is what made it powerful. 'Look Out Sir' just preserves key models, unless you play an idiot they'll dump enough wounds to remove several Paladins at once anyway. Both Paladins and Nobz cost boatloads of points. Making them character units didn't especially change things, IMO. They're already very good and crush bad players, character status is basically icing on the cake of fast powerklaw spam, or WS5 halberds for days+quad Relentless psycannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3330247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Maikel Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Except you could spread wounds around similar to the way you could in 5th (albeit, only on a 4+). This is huge for two wound models, as killing off the first rank to open range between you and them becomes that much harder. It was an easily abused rule and pallystars and nob bikerstars are the reason the rules were changed in the first place. Yes, it was so broken that even GW realized this and changed the rules. Not FAQ'd or errata'd for clarity, but fundamentally changed. Something GW isn't exactly known for. Who tries to attrition Pallystars? Dumbest strategy ever. Apply S8 and preferably AP2 to go with it, that is how you kill them. Even meltaguns are cost-effective when the unit is basically one third/half your points down the drain. It's still only a 4+, and you still take the unsaved wound. Old wound allocation happened before saves, that is what made it powerful. 'Look Out Sir' just preserves key models, unless you play an idiot they'll dump enough wounds to remove several Paladins at once anyway. Both Paladins and Nobz cost boatloads of points. Making them character units didn't especially change things, IMO. They're already very good and crush bad players, character status is basically icing on the cake of fast powerklaw spam, or WS5 halberds for days+quad Relentless psycannon. Plus, with the change from putting the wound on anyone within 3" to automatically shunting it to the next closest model, most of the shenanigans would have been avoided anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3330552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Yeah, I forgot about that one as well. The 3" can really screw you, especially when you do what I do and stick Coteaz up front to tank with his artificer plate. Then have no Acolytes to pawn to :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272750-couple-of-questions/#findComment-3330693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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