Total Newbie interested in starting own DA Army

[ZorroRooster]

This requires a bit of explanation so please bear with me. While waiting for a locksmith to unlock my car, I learned the very basics of 40k. Being too poor to be able to purchase anything to get me started, I began to read the 40k wiki and just fell in love with the DA flavor and backstory. I'm slowly but surely saving up for the dark vengeance (I think thats the one I mean. The one with space marines and chaos marines). In any case, I'd like to also save up for the DA Codex and build/paint an entire DA army, starting small and building up. I want to play for fun at first and eventually start playing in tournaments. My questions are as follows:

 

How are Ravenwing and Deathwing armies? Can you effectively merge the two? Where should I start once I have the starter set? What are the best paints to use to get that nice, deep green of the DAs?

 

I know this is probably the wrong thread to be talking about this particular subject, but to get the most out of the starter set, I was thinking I'd play a merger of chaos marines and Fallen. Are there specific rules for Fallen? How would I treat them within an army of Chaos?

[elmo]

Without trying to sound off putting there is a great source of information all over this forum.

The best suggestion I can give you is to spend time browsing the many great threads here for ideas and once you decide you like a certain version/colour scheme by one of the members you can ask them the way they achieved that effect and they will usually be most happy to help you out.

There are just so many answers to your questions it would be a never ending job to try to give you a complete answer.

On the DV (Dark Vengeance) box set, if you only want the DA models then a cheaper option is to buy the individual models/squads from that well known internet auction site otherwise you will have the Chaos models and no idea what to do with them.

Another option is to find someone who wants the Chaos models and split a box with them.

The big bonus of the DV box set is that it also has a small version of the rulebook which means you will not have to buy one seperately although you will still need the DA codex. You can get the official way of painting DA from GW but if you look around here there are many different ways used - Check out Stobz and Bryan for some excellent work.

Paints - some people use a mixture of brands, GW/Vallejo/etc or stick to just one. You can find a great paint comparison chart here althought it is not perfect. Each brand has its own advantages/disadvantages/prices/availability so give it some thought before committing. I don't think that the GW paints are the best but that is just me.....

As for future purchases as you appear to be on a tight budget it is worth play testing various units as "counts as" models before you actually buy the model to see how you like its playstyle.

Hope this helps to answer at least some of your questions

Elmo

[Aromir]

First of all..

 

Welcome to the ranks of the Dark Angels!

 

You have a lot of questions, but i will try to answer them the best i can.

 

 

 

How are Ravenwing and Deathwing armies? Can you effectively merge the two?

 

Both Ravenwing and Deathwing armies are pretty competative without being overpowered; Same goes for normal Dark Angels. General consensus seems to be that combining all three is the most optimal solution to get a powerful army, but oppinions will vary. And yes you can combine the two and combine them with normal Dark Angels, but depending on what combination you want, you may need a certain special Character.

 

 

 

Where should I start once I have the starter set?

 

That depends on what sort army you want to play. If you are just going to play a normal Dark Angels army i would suggest getting some more marines perhaps even a devastator squad, but if you are going for Deathwing or Ravenwing army, you should of cause buy terminators or bikes.

 

 

 

What are the best paints to use to get that nice, deep green of the DAs?

 

Again there are multiple solutions here. If you check out this

 you can see a nice guide of how to paint the most common version.

 

That said, I actually prefer a different version, seen

. This video is rather old so the he uses the old names for the different paints, if you buy them today it is something like this: Catachan Green = Castalan Green, Badab Black = Nuln Oil, Dark Angels Green = Caliban Green and Snot Green = Warpstone Glow. 

 

Both painters use Games Workshop paints, that should be easily availeble.

 

 

I know this is probably the wrong thread to be talking about this particular subject, but to get the most out of the starter set, I was thinking I'd play a merger of chaos marines and Fallen. Are there specific rules for Fallen? How would I treat them within an army of Chaos? 

 

 

There are to my knowledge there are currently no official rules that deal with the Fallen, so you can treat them however you like. You can field them using either the Dark Angels codex or the Chaos Space Marine codex and there is nothing worng with using a combination of Chaos and DA Models to represent the Fallen.

 

I hope this answers your questions.

[march10k]

I am kind of stuck, in terms of the green paint...I actually prefer caliban green to the old dark angels green....but if those two colors are a match, then my ass is a typewriter.  Since I have 16 years' worth of DA-green-painted models that I'm not about to repaint, I'm stuck with the old color.  My advice to you would be to embrace caliban green as the base color of your nascent collection.  Just fool around until you find a shading and highlighting method that works for you, and you're set.

 

As for mixing...it's possible to take 1-2 RW or DW units in an otherwise pure green, black, or white army...but try to have a 50/50, or 30/30/40 split, and you'll lose every game that you play.  Deathwing is great support for the other two because it provides rock-hard melee capabilities.  Ravenwing is great support for the other two because it provides ridiculous speed and telehomers.  Battle company units, of course, provide the most shooting and the highest model count.  I could happily support a deathwing list with a devastator squad or three, or include a squad of deathwing knights in my ravenwing list...but if I took two termie squads, an RAS, a nephilim, and 30 assorted power armored marines, maybe with a few tanks thrown in for good measure, I'd find that my list lacked focus, which makes it really hard to have a plan for how to win the game.  At that point you have a collection of models, not a coherent army.

 

So my advice would be...pick a color, green, white, or black, and develop your list in that direction.  It's totally okay to splash from the other colors, but trying to do all three is asking for disaster at the gaming table.

[facmanpob]

March10k is correct about trying to mix the wings. It CAN be done, but its hard, and requires a lot of experience to get it right at the army building stage. Also, its generally much easier tactically to run single-wing on the table than mixed-wing. Without wanting to blow my own trumpet, I've just posted a batrep where I ran a fluffy Mixed-wing (Ravenwing and Greenwing) against a Chaos Marine army, and without going into detail I found that they didn't synergise easily. Partly this was due to me messing up in deployment, but also because its tough to integrate mobile and static elements together.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272667-batrep-1750-points-mixed-wing-vs-chaos-marines/?p=3326075

That said, Dual-wing (Ravenwing and Deathwing) are much easier to integrate with each other than with Greenwing in my opinion, and the Dark Vengeance set does start you off by giving you a Deathwing Squad and a Ravenwing Squad.

the best thing to do though is to build your Dark Vengeance models (when you get them), start painting them, and play some small games with them to see how you enjoy the game. Very soon you will start to have a soft spot for one or more of the units, and will naturally want to paint/play more of them..... that's the army you should go for.

Oh, and as an aside, the Company Master in the Dark Vengeance box has the same weapon load out as the Dark Angels Chapter Master, Azrael, so you can use him as Azzy if you want without spending the money on the official Azrael model! That will make your Deathwing and Ravenwing squads from the DV box troops choices. He's not necessarily the most competitive HQ choise, but initially will help you run a legal army without spending too much money.

[Brother dean]

DO NOT get discouraged if your freshly painted minis do not look as good as the ones on the box/internet/White Dwarf.  (mine dont and I've been at it for a while...)  Like any other skill painting (and playing) takes time and practice.

 

There are a great many websites and forums (including this one) for learning to paint, just jump in and ask questions as you go and there will be someone who will answer.  My first advice is to get a nice "mid range" set of brushes with nylon or Golden taklon bristles.  Those plastic water color brushes you used in kindergarten will not give you much satisfaction in painting.

[Brother Immolator]

DO NOT get discouraged if your freshly painted minis do not look as good as the ones on the box/internet/White Dwarf.  (mine dont and I've been at it for a while...)  Like any other skill painting (and playing) takes time and practice.

 

There are a great many websites and forums (including this one) for learning to paint, just jump in and ask questions as you go and there will be someone who will answer.  My first advice is to get a nice "mid range" set of brushes with nylon or Golden taklon bristles.  Those plastic water color brushes you used in kindergarten will not give you much satisfaction in painting.

 

This above! Only Elmo, Semper and Stobz can paint as in the box :P

 

Also guys we better stop the jargon, the man doesn't have a codex yet and he is new to all this so wingbuilds, wargear and psychic powers are completely irrelevant right now.

Therefore do it one step at a time: Your Idea to get the dark vengeance set is the right one. Find a friend and play (you the DA and he/she the chaos marines). Read the rulebook and familiarize your self with  the rules and the game. This will take a longer time than expected. Assuming you still want them to be Dark Angels and not one of their successors, (dark angel derived chapters with other colours and logos, google Dark angels successor chapters to learn more about them) in the interim between learning/playing get the basic colors you want to paint your army with and read how to's, or come here so we can bombard you with painting resepies. When you feel ready go grab a codex and read the expanded rules and units our chapter has. Then it will be the time to speak of Ravenwing/Deathwing and standards builds and what to buy next.

 

Dont make the mistake of starting all over the place, small steps will take you there.

Welcome to the Rock!

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Leave while you still draw breath.

[Brother dean]

Leave while you still draw breath.

Also a valid answer.  This is a very expensive obsession..  and not a very healthy one....  However the fact you found your way here means that it may already be too late for you to save yourself....

[rover]

Welcome to The Rock Brother.

Obsession is a good word. Once you are in it you get literally addicted. Truth is that expenses never ends and you dump a lot of money in plastic miniatures, paints, tools and all the other stuff around it. However it's a really rewarding hobby with a lot of fun behind fluff, battles and campaigns.

Dark Vengeance is a good start if you asked me. It's not cheaper to buy stand alone boxes to be honest. In DV you get a rulebook, dices and templates which you would have to buy separetaly. You get a Tactical Squad with plasma weaponry (very popular and effective nowadays), a Librarian (one of the best generic HQ choices for DA at the moment), 3 bikes and a squad of Terminators. You have a Company Master on top of that. You can sell Chaos and invest the money into getting another Tactical Squad and basically you are ready to play. Librarian, Two Tactical Squads, a Deathwing Squad and s Ravenwing Attack Squad lets you to play games around 800-1000 points which is a decent start. Those units works quite well at a rookie level and will let you to get familiar with different unit types. In DV you get all the information you need to play with above units so you don't have to buy a codex right away. I would suggest you buy it once you play with DV models and will start to think about expanding your army. Once you get along with those units and will start to think how to expand our Codex will show you the way

And don't worry about money. Sometimes we have them sometimes we don't. Available founds can just slow you down but wont stop you from creating an army :)

[IanSturrock]

Also -- DO NOT get put off if you lose your first four games, or your first forty. :)

Don't worry too much about optimising your army list to begin with. Just get experience playing the game, and enjoying it. Don't even look at tactical and list-building articles till you've had a few games. A friendly teacher-opponent is way more useful than any advice we can offer here, because they'll look at what you actually do in play, and offer tips based on that.

I agree that splitting the DV box is a good start, or even splitting 2 DV boxes. If you can't split them, try buying 2 boxes, and selling the Chaos + 1 rulebook on eBay. You should do OK -- just sell the stuff in squads.

 

(Do convert the "spares" of the individual character minis -- you should be able to combine the Librarian with one of the Ravenwing Bikers to make a Biker Librarian, a very handy addition.)

 

Next after that, if you're on a tight budget, do consider Bitz sites and/or more DV stuff and/or 2nd hand stuff on eBay. As an example -- if you want a unit of Deathwing Knights, you can buy the Flail and four Maces of Absolution for probably £3.50 (a tenth of the price of the Knights), five DV termies for £10 or so, and then make the shields out of plasticard... bingo, a unique Deathwing Knights unit for less than half the price of the full boxed set.

 

That said -- if you love, love, love a particular unit -- do just buy it... the new codex is balanced enough that there's very little in it that's just plain bad.

[elphilo]

Also -- DO NOT get put off if you lose your first four games, or your first forty.

A million times this. A year ago my group convinced a friend to start playing. And he lost every single game. It wasn't until recently he even started to draw games. Sure he'd win occasionally but it wasn't enough to keep him interested. It took days of convincing him that in time he will win. Heck our oldest playing friend said he lost every game for 4 years straight!

So just don't get discouraged when you lose. Because you will. A lot. . . .

[ZorroRooster]

Thanks for all the tips and encouragement. As I said, I've been reading the wiki so I am at least passingly familiar with the big chapters and some of the successor chapters to the DA. I dont see myself playing anything other than DA, hehe. I actually played straight Warhammer once about 15, 20 years ago before I even knew what Warhammer was. Friends started playing Dawn of War, I played a bit and have been curious. Finally learned the basics of 40k and am hooked. As a temporary distraction I bought the video game Space Marine. Nothing like 40k, but I'm getting a feel for the universe and basic mentality for Ultramarines and Orks.

 

Its good to know I'll lose a lot when starting out. Wont keep me from playing, but its good to know going into it

[ZorroRooster]

Also, if/when I decide to sell off the Chaos army, should I try and paint them first? I would think people would want to buy them unpainted so they can do it themselves. Also, what would be the preferred method of shipping? Plain old box with some padding?

[Brother Immolator]

Also remember, once A dark angel, always a dark angel!

 

 

 

Also,
if/when I decide to sell off the Chaos army, should I try and paint
them first? I would think people would want to buy them unpainted so
they can do it themselves. Also, what would be the preferred method of
shipping? Plain old box with some padding?

 

 

Personal opinion would be not to paint them.

If you are a painting master though you will earn more.

 

If you have them unpainted a box and bubble wrap around the bits would suffice.

[ZorroRooster]

Painting master? Hah, I have trouble keeping my coloring within a defined space. Thats been the main thing for me not getting involved with 40k, or any miniature game. I'm gonna give it my best, but I've never been much good when it comes to art/drawing/painting etc. I learned the basics to painting when I learned how to play, so we'll see how it goes

[Brother dean]

Some of us still play Space Marine online...  

 

Xbox live: ammobunkerdean

[EPK]

Also remember, once A dark angel, always a dark angel!

 

Indeed. And if you fall from grace to another codex, we will add your name to the book and hunt you down.

[Brother Immolator]

 

Also remember, once A dark angel, always a dark angel!

 

Indeed. And if you fall from grace to another codex, we will add your name to the book and hunt you down.

True, your choice is for life...Whether it will be a long and prosperous, short or long and torturous depends on your actions since the hour stepped in the hallowed halls of the Rock.

 

 

Painting master? Hah, I have trouble keeping my coloring within a defined space. Thats been the main thing for me not getting involved with 40k, or any miniature game. I'm gonna give it my best, but I've never been much good when it comes to art/drawing/painting etc. I learned the basics to painting when I learned how to play, so we'll see how it goes

 

Dont worry its an acquired skill. If you wish browse my gallery and look at my company master. Its my first mini. I dont say this to show off, my point is: Read some tutorials and better yet find someone to apprentice under. He will help you learn the tricks. BUT DONT ALLOW HIM TO PAiNT FOR YOU. Because he will make them according to his own tastes and you will never learn.

Also if you can find them (ebay usually) try to find some oop metal models that are in good condition (full parts and no damage, however horribly they may be painted). You can strip them down as many times as you want with alcohol (DONT TRY THIS ON PLASTIC OR RESIN) without damaging the models. My libby standard bearer and Asmodai are an example of this method.

[elmo]

Also remember, once A dark angel, always a dark angel!

Also,

if/when I decide to sell off the Chaos army, should I try and paint

them first? I would think people would want to buy them unpainted so

they can do it themselves. Also, what would be the preferred method of

shipping? Plain old box with some padding?

Personal opinion would be not to paint them.

If you are a painting master though you will earn more.

If you have them unpainted a box and bubble wrap around the bits would suffice.

+1 on this especially as you say you are no painting master ;)

You will find that most "poorly" painted figures go for less than a virgin sprue on Ebay as they involve more work to repaint.

The paint job has to be of a high standard and the right colour scheme to sell.

It is worth leaving the parts on the sprue so as not to damage the parts and wrap in bubble wrap and use a box to prevent damage.

Oh, and I forgot on my first post - Welcome to the DARK ANGELS.....

@Brother Immolator

This above! Only Elmo, Semper and Stobz can paint as in the box

Thanks - but I am not even in the same country as these guys painting wise (I am just faster :))

[Brother Immolator]

Thanks - but I am not even in the same country as these guys painting wise (I am just faster )

Now you are acting like a company veteran. Not for us the honors,bling and all that :D

[elmo]

Like a true Dark Angel, I need no bling, special armour or badges (badges, we don' need no steenkin badges).

 

Just point me at the enemy and stand well back.... FOR THE LION

[ZorroRooster]

Brother Dean, you may occasionally find me on live playing under the tag ItsTheMette. I'll add you next time I'm on. Thanks for all the welcomes and I feel safe saying I'll never stray from my Brothers here on the Rock, heh