Building a Solid Heavy Support Base

[IK Viper]

Food for thought: Helldrakes will hand your dev. squad back to you in one turn if you don't space them well, and even it you do it will be combat ineffective the turn that dragon comes on the board, and with a 48 in plus the 8 inch template threat range on the turn it arrives there is not much hiding from that...  In my meta there are several double Helldrake lists flying around so a Dev. Squad in the open is a waste,  I only ever deploy them in a bastion with a TDA Librarian attached, that way they get Precience, and also if the dragons flame the fire points (inflisting d6 hits on the unit inside) I can tank the wounds on the 2+ save of the Librarian.  Beyond that bastion squad I would stick to AV based fire support, which laugh at a S6 Template.  If you have 48 in. weapons you can stay within 12 in. of the board edge and insure that you don't have to worry about Vector Stikes till atleast turn 3.  In a Helldrake heavy meta (the last local tournament I went to there were 7 Helldrakes fielded in an 8 player tournament,  one tripple drake, and 2 double drakes) Tanks are much more reliable, regardless of match up.   

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Regarding Dev protection from Heldrakes, I agree with IK Viper that you are mostly boned, but there are certain things you can do to mititgate damage. The Bastion idea is pretty cool, I had not thought of that.

Additionally, you can split the squad onto different levels of a Ruin, since Templates must choose which level they are targeting. So you'll lose 2-3 three guys instead of 4 (because even at maximum 2" spread, there is no formation that can reduce a Torrent template to less than 4 hits).

Also, small secret: a Heldrake counts as being on the Ground Level when its base is placed on the tabletop (ie not 'flying' above ruins, etc). A Template weapon can only hit 1 level above and below the level the shooter is on. So the 2nd Level (Ground Level, 1st Level, 2nd Level) of any Ruins is completely safe from a Heldrake. Your welcome

[StJude]

Also, small secret: a Heldrake counts as being on the Ground Level when its base is placed on the tabletop (ie not 'flying' above ruins, etc). A Template weapon can only hit 1 level above and below the level the shooter is on. So the 2nd Level (Ground Level, 1st Level, 2nd Level) of any Ruins is completely safe from a Heldrake. Your welcome

HU-WHAT?!?!

That is an AWESOME tip. I am off to read the BRB on that one to confirm, please don't take it personally, but that is a nice tip that separates the men from the boys. I need to make sure I can show that to my opponent and watch his jaw drop. LOTS of 2+ Heldrake lists in my meta.

[Drunken Angel]

I dont run devastators, I theme my army as fast nothing that moves less than 12". I run 2 Stormravens as my heavy support because of the dual role the can fill having skyfire and being able to carry troops if need be. If points allow I will run a Vindicator in that HS slot.Some other on here have mentioned allies if you want to bone helldrakes and dont want to use flyers.Go Imperial Guard Go to forge world Go get a Sabre battery.Unashamedly cribbed form another website but too damn good not to consider

Ally with Guard and take 1 platoon. Take Sabre Weapons Battery for --pts per model, and upgrade them to twin linked lascannons for --pts, then add extra crewmen for 2pts more and free searchlights (because they are free). It’s 156pts for 3 Sabres and 6 men, but they are all toughness 7 artillery and scoring units! Set that unit up behind an Aegis line, and with a 3+ save on the gun and T7 infantry you are good to go. You’ll love the fact that it has both interceptor and skyfire, so unlike hydras it can take out enemy aircraft immediately on arrival.Oh you’re worried your opponent may be bringing too many flyers for 3 twinlinked lascannons to deal with? Don’t worry, a single guard platoon can bring 15 Sabres and they are all scoring. And you can have two platoons as an ally!

If you have taken guard allies you probably will be thinking about a couple of vendettas too, so for less than 500 points you have got a pretty solid anti flyer screen.I know this sort of investment is not within everyones reach but the truth still holds. Something like Helldrakes is broken untill a build fixes it and the most likley build to sort out the issues described here will come from outside the box literally. It will only take a couple of guard guys in your area to stock up on Sabres and things will change.Me I prefer to use my 2 Stormravens tactically and gang up on Helldrakes.

[StJude]

Also, small secret: a Heldrake counts as being on the Ground Level when its base is placed on the tabletop (ie not 'flying' above ruins, etc).

 

CAG, I am not seeing that a Heldrake counts as being on Ground Level when placed on the tabletop. Where are you seeing that? I checked the BRB, BRB FAQ and Daemon FAQ and can't find anything to support this. What am I missing?

[CitadelArmyGuy]

The base is on the table. There is no other level to count is as being on.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271899-torrent-cannot-hit-2nd-floor-of-ruins/

[StJude]

The base is on the table. There is no other level to count is as being on.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271899-torrent-cannot-hit-2nd-floor-of-ruins/

Ah! thanks for the link, that certainly clarifies things. This only applies to zooming flyers, not just flyers that have arrived from reserve seeing as they can enter play in Hover mode or zooming. While it does appear to be RAW, it feels a little beardy and not something I would feel comfortable enforcing. However, I am glad I am aware of it.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

[CitadelArmyGuy]

While it does appear to be RAW, it feels a little beardy and not something I would feel comfortable enforcing.

If they want to bring 2+ Heldrakes, then they can play by the rules. I have absolutely no sympathy. It isn't like they can complain about Tournament play --- I can't think of any tournys I've been to that had 3-level ruins anyway.

I suppose I'm a tad bitter that the Internet would have you believe the entire CSM codex is 'supposedly' being propped up by that one unit. I do not own a hellchicken nor will I ever. Not that it would be in poor taste-- I just don't need the crutch. It is good at what it does, but not overtly. It just makes me sad that people don't play at 2" spread formations... If everyone played spread out, then the internet wouldn't have siezed upon the turkey as an amazing unit. It would fly around only getting 4 hits per-template.

But no one plays spread out with hollow formations. Tragedy of the Commons. So the poultry has an overinflated reputation because people let it kill 6+ of their MEQ in one shot, a condition which should never ever happen unless you are post-melee.

So the Heldrake gets tripled spammed in netlists, and is hailed as the only worthy thing in the codex. Too bad this rant won't change anything Plus it's in the wrong spot lol-- but the CSM subforum of the B&C has a much.... different ...atmosphere than the BA subforum.

Back on topic for the thread, Does anyone run a Rhino with Devastators anymore? I'm curious to see if anyone has experience trying that out. If you only take 2 heavy weapons, it gives you three ablative wounds if deploying normally -- the freed up Rhino can give you a screen for Mephiston to hide behind. Plus you can always start inside the Rhino and shoot from the hatch if facing Heldrakes or their ilk. idk just sort of throwing a half-formed idea out there...

[Emperors Immortals]

I run a 6 man in a razor back quite often, it lends enough firepower and adds to an AV screen. Not often mentioned on the net but there you go.

 

On CSM, I don't run a turkey in my list either, I've done well with maulers khorne csm and zerkers while opponents have tried to keep up.

[appiah4]

I run a 6 man in a razor back quite often, it lends enough firepower and adds to an AV screen. Not often mentioned on the net but there you go.

 

On CSM, I don't run a turkey in my list either, I've done well with maulers khorne csm and zerkers while opponents have tried to keep up.

 

If I had one, I would definitely field it with my 3xML 1xLC squad, giving it a Lascannon and Hunter-Killer.

 

That's some serious AV right there.