Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I got wiped off the board by the following. Flying Demon Prince (killed the unit with WGTA, Rune Priest & 10 GH) Hellfire Dragon (the chaos flyer) (Ap3 flamethrower) (destroyed both LF units to geather with the Obliterators AP 2 Plasma) One of them 6 legged Chaos walkers with the 5` AP3 Template cannon (wiped out a unit of GH with 2 Shots) 2 X 2 Obliterators (multi weapons to choose from) (first plasma cannon, then next turn Laser, then again plasma cannon, next turn laser) These Units hung back and watched the show 2 X 8 CSM mark of nurgel 2 X 10 Cultists. At 1500 pts what would you guys bring to fight this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 rune priests could give you some cover saves to throw around, would make you more survivable, you could also load wgtda into the list to give you lots of 2+5++ (or better) drop pods would also mean you could get into cc quickly by landing you in the middle of his army, survive 1 turn of shooting (at close range so any blasts against you would be a risk) and then charge. the drop pods would also draw fire off your other units, so could give your long fangs a chance to take his flier out, especially with a rune priest to buff them and if you have the points a wolf priest as well to give them preferred enemy fliers, just giving you all the chance you can to take it out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3328444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 When can drop pods enter the game. Turn 1 allready? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3328465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Bretton Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 yeah its the rules, half (rounding up) can enter on turn 1, the rest come in as normal. plus as units that have to start in reserve (and any passengers) don't count to the 50% of your force on the board rule you can in theory put your entire army in drop pods and start with no models on the field. its quite amusing if your opponent has the first turn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3328537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 demon prince_ give your rune priest a force axe saga of the beast slayer and a wolf tooth kneckless. put him in a unit of grey hunters with a wolf guard. challenge the prince with the wolf guard and if you give the wolf guard a power axe tda and a storm shield, with the re rolls from the wolf banner he has a fairly good chance of serviving and even if he dosnt he's pretty cheap. after the challence pile into the prince with the rune priest who is now hitting on 3s with re rolls and is wounding on 2s with no armour save and can instant kill him with his force weapon. the hell drake is a problem for space wolves but the oblitorators and defiler dies easy enough to krak missiles and drop pod melta or plasma squads also i have had some success with swift claw bikers with melta bombs when it come to dealing with vehicles Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3328673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 demon prince_ give your rune priest a force axe They come standard with unique force weapons. Regardless, Rune Priests are our weakest melee HQ;they'd make better use positioned elsewhere imo. To the OP, haven't had the privilege to fight chaos yet, so I don't have any specific advice.. But the droppod approach to close the gap is preferred. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3328732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 Thanx for the ideas brothers, I quite like the Wolfpriest idea because he gets that crucial save. Here is a rough list I planning for a tournament Irnist the Wise runepriest lvl 1, Axe, plasma pistol, runic armor Kjell Anders, Runepriest lvl 1 Terminator, (Njall figure) stormbolter ELITE WGTA Powerfist, wolfclaw, cyclone rocket launcher (in a LF unit with RP in TA) WGTA wolfclaw, powerfist (in a GH unit protecting the RP) 5 X WgTA combi Plasma, Wolfclaw in Droppod STANDARD 10 x GH, 2 x plasma, 1 x plasma pistol, wolfbanner 10 x GH, flamethrower, plasma, wolfbanner, MOTW 10 x GH, flamthrower, plasma, wolfbanner, MOTW SUPPORT 5 X LF, 4 x RL, 1 x LasC 1 x Grimmfang is the seargent , the one that can direct fire 5 x LF, 4 x RL, 1 x LasC 1 x GF Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3328833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Did you try talking things over rationally? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3328886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Assuming Grimmfang means Wolf Guard for your Long Fang packs? Otherwise you are short 2 Wolf Guard to be able to take the Cyclone. Have you considered a Gunslinger to help with the Oblit's? It's risky because of the Gets Hot but I usually do OK with them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3328941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Also, it's "Blood Claws (BC)" not "Blood Fangs (BF)" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 I translated from the german books, i edited it to make things more clear. i always thought that 3 WG is the minimum, must i take more WG to get the CRLauncher? My list is about 1500 pts. One unit of GH is the plasma spam unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I translated from the german books, i edited it to make things more clear. i always thought that 3 WG is the minimum, must i take more WG to get the CRLauncher? My list is about 1500 pts. One unit of GH is the plasma spam unit. 3 minimum to make a pack, 5 minimum to have 1 heavy weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 I understand the Drop Pod plan because Oblits x 4, a Defiler with battle cannon (5' template AP 3), 2. x 8 CSM with plasma spam is effectivly a anti SM Gunline. With the flying Demon Prince & Helldrake he can take on 2 units of his choice. Question: Do combi plasma shots count as Storm 2? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoran Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Nein, if by Storm 2 you mean assault 2 it does not. It is a rapid fire weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 demon prince_ give your rune priest a force axe They come standard with unique force weapons. Regardless, Rune Priests are our weakest melee HQ;they'd make better use positioned elsewhere imo. To the OP, haven't had the privilege to fight chaos yet, so I don't have any specific advice.. But the droppod approach to close the gap is preferred. the rune priest because his weapon wounds demons on a 2x so with your wolf banner, as long as you hit him your guaranteed to wound him and as a demon princes isnt an enternal warrior you can use your force weapon to instant kill him. using the wolf guard to challenge the prince (who has to except) means he cant attack your rune priest . as for weakest melee character in this isntant he probably has a better chance then most, he only needs to get one wound to kill the prince, needs 3s to hit with re-rolls ( wolf kneckles and saga of the beast slayer) and the banner and his force weapon means he is wounding on 2s and re rolling ones . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 You need a bastion. Seriously, for 125 points you get the bastion and a quad gun, and I've never seen something ruin people's day faster. put one fang pack inside, one on top. Ditch the Mastery 2 and the plasma pistol on the RP and put him in the bastion with divination powers (make sure you take the primaris for one), and buy yourself some pods. pod in by the oblits turn 1 and focus fire them to death, and the game is largely yours. the large blast might take the top of the bastion, but the only thing that will ever really get to you inside is the drake or the prince if he assaults (but then you overwatch with all the missiles inside), just focus the drake down with every missile you have (and intercept with the quad gun if it's still alive). Other than that, try to put the defiler down after the oblits, and the prince after that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 d@n, on 16 Mar 2013 - 10:36, said: Wulfebane, on 15 Mar 2013 - 14:50, said: d@n, on 15 Mar 2013 - 13:14, said: demon prince_ give your rune priest a force axe They come standard with unique force weapons. Regardless, Rune Priests are our weakest melee HQ;they'd make better use positioned elsewhere imo. To the OP, haven't had the privilege to fight chaos yet, so I don't have any specific advice.. But the droppod approach to close the gap is preferred. the rune priest because his weapon wounds demons on a 2x so with your wolf banner, as long as you hit him your guaranteed to wound him and as a demon princes isnt an enternal warrior you can use your force weapon to instant kill him. using the wolf guard to challenge the prince (who has to except) means he cant attack your rune priest . as for weakest melee character in this isntant he probably has a better chance then most, he only needs to get one wound to kill the prince, needs 3s to hit with re-rolls ( wolf kneckles and saga of the beast slayer) and the banner and his force weapon means he is wounding on 2s and re rolling ones . The only issue with that is the RP is I4, versus the prince who is I8. You'd have to put your RP in TDA just to get a chance to swing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 d@n, on 16 Mar 2013 - 10:36, said: Wulfebane, on 15 Mar 2013 - 14:50, said: d@n, on 15 Mar 2013 - 13:14, said: demon prince_ give your rune priest a force axe They come standard with unique force weapons. Regardless, Rune Priests are our weakest melee HQ;they'd make better use positioned elsewhere imo. To the OP, haven't had the privilege to fight chaos yet, so I don't have any specific advice.. But the droppod approach to close the gap is preferred. the rune priest because his weapon wounds demons on a 2x so with your wolf banner, as long as you hit him your guaranteed to wound him and as a demon princes isnt an enternal warrior you can use your force weapon to instant kill him. using the wolf guard to challenge the prince (who has to except) means he cant attack your rune priest . as for weakest melee character in this isntant he probably has a better chance then most, he only needs to get one wound to kill the prince, needs 3s to hit with re-rolls ( wolf kneckles and saga of the beast slayer) and the banner and his force weapon means he is wounding on 2s and re rolling ones . The only issue with that is the RP is I4, versus the prince who is I8. You'd have to put your RP in TDA just to get a chance to swing. no becuase you challenge the demon prince with the wolfguard so the demon prince want be able to attack your rune priest Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 no becuase you challenge the demon prince with the wolfguard so the demon prince want be able to attack your rune priestMaking challenges means no one else gets to attack the challenger/challenged. If you challenge the prince with a WG, the Rune Priest is forced to attack something else. And as IactonQruze said, RPs are I4 and 2 wounds, with no option for invuln. outside of TDA. They seldom last long enough in melee to make it worth it. Furthermore, a RP's strength is in their psychic abilities, not their runic weapon. Putting them in melee often means they can't cast a spell unless its a squad blessing. No Jaws, no LL, no shooting attacks of any kind while they're locked in melee... meaning you tarpitted your own 100+ pt model in a role they are ill-suited for and they'll likely be locked in combat til they die and never make up their cost. Leave RPs out of melee. If you want a force weapon in melee, bring GKs or BA psykers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 no becuase you challenge the demon prince with the wolfguard so the demon prince want be able to attack your rune priestMaking challenges means no one else gets to attack the challenger/challenged. If you challenge the prince with a WG, the Rune Priest is forced to attack something else. And as IactonQruze said, RPs are I4 and 2 wounds, with no option for invuln. outside of TDA. They seldom last long enough in melee to make it worth it. Furthermore, a RP's strength is in their psychic abilities, not their runic weapon. Putting them in melee often means they can't cast a spell unless its a squad blessing. No Jaws, no LL, no shooting attacks of any kind while they're locked in melee... meaning you tarpitted your own 100+ pt model in a role they are ill-suited for and they'll likely be locked in combat til they die and never make up their cost. Leave RPs out of melee. If you want a force weapon in melee, bring GKs or BA psykers. you right. i completely overlooked the fact that you cant attack someone who has been challenged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamWasKing Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 So I'd better get my termis & drop pods ready.Inside i would put 2 termis with stormshields & PF', 3 x combiplasma with PF. Bastion is just not in an the moment but i love the idea. If the rune priest is challenged when the DPrince is assaulting a building doesnt the demon go last? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 The demon can't actually challenge if he's assaulting a building - he just attacks the building. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Also, I'm not positive, but doesn't all of csm codex have to issue and accept all challenges? If you have a wgpl in you unit with a rp, let him challenge....decline it with the wgpl, then force weapon the dp back to the nether. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 This is the problem with people choosing to not get the new rulebook and/or not reading it thoroughly. Not saying this is specifically the case here, but I've decided that the issue happens far too often to simply assume it be the majority.Pg. 64 of the BRB, Refusing a Challenge: If you refuse [a challenge], your opponent gets to nominate one of your characters from those that could have accepted. The chosen model cannot strike blows at all this turn, as he is thereafter putting all of his effort into staying clear of the vengeful enemy character.Once a challenge has been refused, the model that issued it fights normally. So if you refuse, your opponent simply negates one of your HQs from combat and still gets to attack normally. Since the demon is a character, he can pour all of his attacks into the RP without having to challenge since he is allowed to fight normally because you refused. In all likelihood, this will decimate your RP before your I4 comes around to attack back. And just in case, it should be mentioned that if your RP is riding the pack solo, he cannot refuse a challenge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272804-how-would-you-deal-with/#findComment-3329600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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