Warp Charges and Deepstrike

[Goatimus]

BRB P.66

"A Psyker automatically generates his full allocation of Warp Charge points at the start of each turn"

 

Since he's not on the board as the start of the turn would a Librarian generate his Warp Charges?

 

Or does deep strike and generation happen at the same time, and the controlling player gets to decide which happens first?

 

Thanks in advance,

-Goatimus

[Seahawk]

No, he would not generate any on the turn he arrives from Reserves, as any ability that happens at the start of the turn cannot be used when arriving from Reserves.

[Lysere]

I thought they generated their charges, but couldn't cast anything during the movement phase because he has already ended his move by arriving, and never had a chance to cast?

 

Then again I don't play Psykers, I just slay them.

[Gentlemanloser]

The rules don't state the Psyker has to be on board to generate Warp Charges.

 

There's no reason they wouldn't generate them.

[jeffersonian000]

Per the rules, if one or more abilities would occur at the same time, the player who's turn it is choses the sequence in which those abilities are used.  In the cast of the deep striking Librarian, he would start the game in reserves and with full Warp Charges.  Upon arriving from reserves, but before any other action is taken, the owning player would need to complete any actions the Librarain will be taking at the beginning of the model's movement phase as the player moves in sequence from action to action (in the cast that more than one model in a unit has an ability that needs to be used at the start of the movement).

 

SJ

[Seahawk]

"Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve." (BRB p.125)

 

 

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

 

 

AWESOME! GW totally ignored their rulebook in favor of...their rulebook? 

[nurglez]

Not really, it means a psyker already on the battlefield could cast prescience on a squad coming on from reserve, but not if the psyker was coming on from reserve.

[Seahawk]

Why not? Once you make your reserve roll the unit arrives on the table, all at the start of the turn. Psychic powers are also at the start of the turn. You simply pick that reserves are first and powers are second, and you can arrive and cast spells because GW is contradictory.

[nurglez]

Yes GW contradict themselves, they wouldn't be GW if they didn't.

 

However these are 2 separate points. One effects units coming on from reserve, and one effects multiple things that happen at the start of the turn.

 

Psyker deepstrikes, can't cast prescience, as they came on from reserves.

 

Terminator squad deepstrikes next turn, psyker can cast prescience on them, due to both things happening at the start of the movement (and the psyker is on the board so is not effected by the can't do stuff due to coming on the board rule).

[Seahawk]

So you're going to completely ignore the FAQ? In this case, I would too, it's a stupid ruling that negates the BRB.

 

If a psyker comes from Reserves, it doesn't matter whether they deep strike. The FAQ says you can choose which happens first, so choose to arrive from reserve first, then cast a power. 

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

So you're going to completely ignore the FAQ? In this case, I would too, it's a stupid ruling that negates the BRB.

 

If a psyker comes from Reserves, it doesn't matter whether they deep strike. The FAQ says you can choose which happens first, so choose to arrive from reserve first, then cast a power. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with nurglez. The FAQ answer deals specifically with Blessings being manifested. There's no support for your position that this can be extended to the generation of Warp Charges. 

 

Ergo, the default Rulebook position applies.

[Gentlemanloser]

There's nothing in the BRB or the FAQ that addresses Warp Charges though.

 

You are permitted to generate Warp Charges at the start of your turn.  There's no restrictions about having to be on board to do so.

 

The FAQ quoted above also doesn't contradict the BRB restriciton of;

 

 

Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve.

 

All this FAQ clarifies is that a Psyker *already on board* can buff a unit that arrives from reserve that movement phase.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Warp Charge is an "ability or special rule that must be used at the start of the turn".

[Gentlemanloser]

No it's not.  It's not an ability or special rule on any unit entry.

 

It's a basic game mechanic, much like a to-hit roll.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

It's an ability.

[Gentlemanloser]

Mastery Level is an ability.

 

Warp Charge isn't.  It's a game mechanic.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Arbitrary distinctions FTW. They're both abilities.

 

Mastery Level is a ability that forms part of the Psyker special rule, as is Warp Charge.

[Gentlemanloser]

What is an ability?

 

 

W'henever a creature or weapon has an abiliry that breaks
or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a
special rule

 

Psyker is a Special rule.  Of which Mastery Level is a part of.

 

 

Psykers are assumed to be Mastery Level 1 unless it states
otherwise in their codex entry. The Mastery Level is usually
shown in parentheses after the Psyker special rule. For example:
Psyker (Mastery Level 2).

 

Warp Charges *aren't* part of the Psyker special rule.  They are the fuel, the game mechanics, for how to use your Psychic Powers, like a Psychic Test is.

[Venemox]

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

 

So, you can intermix the casting of Psyker powers with the ROLLING for reserve, Outflankers, etc. because both happen at the start of the movement phase.  (Psyker blessing page 68, reserve rules page 124).  

However, if we look further into the Deep Strike and reserve rules, it shows that the order of operations is

     a.  Roll for Reserves for ALL units, then

     b.  Units arrive from Reserve via whatever means, completing their moves (if they walked/flew on)

     c.  All other units move.

 

If the Roll for Reserves occurs at the beginning of the turn, and all arrivals (with attendant movement) happen after the rolls, the arrivals DO NOT happen at the beginning of the turn.  The FAQ speaks only to Reserve Rolls, not Reserve arrivals.

 

The BRB even explicitly states, on page 125:  'Unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserves'  

 

The FAQ allows Psykers to cast abilities that affect reserve rolls to actually have a game effect.  It does not allow for Psykers arriving that turn to cast blessing nor for units arriving that turn to receive them.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

What is an ability?

 

 

W'henever a creature or weapon has an abiliry that breaks

or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a

special rule

 

Psyker is a Special rule.  Of which Mastery Level is a part of.

 

 

>

Psykers are assumed to be Mastery Level 1 unless it states

otherwise in their codex entry. The Mastery Level is usually

shown in parentheses after the Psyker special rule. For example:

Psyker (Mastery Level 2).

 

Warp Charges *aren't* part of the Psyker special rule.  They are the fuel, the game mechanics, for how to use your Psychic Powers, like a Psychic Test is.

 

Oh, I get it. If you just keep making arbitrary and unsupported distinctions it all makes sense.

[Gentlemanloser]

I've quoted the BRB.

 

Where's your support for the Generation of Warp Charges being a unit specific ability?

 

I suppose a unit rolling Deny the Witch is also using one of it's own abilities as well.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Excellent example, comparing something than any unit can do to one that only one unit type can do. 

 

You have indeed quoted the Rulebook. You have then made an arbitrary and unsupportable distinction. One is a special rule because you say so. One is a game mechanic, because you say so. In reality, both are abilities incorporated into the Psyker special rule and accordingly Warp Charge is unusable in the turn a Psyker arrives from Reserve. 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

One is a special rule because you say so.

 

No, becuase the rule book said so.  I provided the quote above.

 

 

In reality, both are abilities incorporated into the Psyker special rule
and accordingly Warp Charge is unusable in the turn a Psyker arrives
from Reserve.

 

 

Excellent example

 

Warp Charge is incorporated into the Psyker special rule just as much (or rather as little...) as Deny is.

 

Manifesting Psychic Powers (from the BRB, again);

 

Step 1: Expend Warp Charge

 

Step 4: Deny the Witch

 

Still, you have provided no support for your arbitrary definition.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Yes, that's logical dear. Deny The Witch is mentioned in the same section so it's as integrated as Warp Charge, the rules for which immediately follow Mastery Level and which only applies to Psykers.

 

But it's not an ability of Psykers or anything. As evidenced by Deny The Witch, which applies to any unit. Obviously.  

 

So hey, Deep-Striking to a Locator Beacon must be a game mechanic too. Awesome. In fact, everything's a game mechanic, so you can do anything you like when you DS, except move further.

 

Even by the standards of OR pedantry this is a pathetic argument. 

[Goatimus]

Ok, so scenario:

 

A blood angels librarian deep strikes via drop pod. 

 

He is not on the board at the beginning of the turn so would he generate his warp charges?

He enters play at the beginning of the movement phase.

In his shooting phase he tries to cast blood lance.

 

Does he have any warp charges to even cast the spell?

Does he have any warp charges to even cast any spells at all regardless of phase?