KaiserTJ1860 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Reading through some of the posts here reminded me of some of the truly tragic characters in the Heresy that landed on the side of the Enemy but still - at first - retained some humanity, or at the very least character traits that made them endearing. Ive got my list here, but who are yours? Argel Tal - Reluctant acceptance of "the Truth" and his unfortunate demise Little Horus - Hounded by visions of Loken and the regret with which he battles Torgaddon Khârn - I think my favourite line in Betrayer was "people found it hard to dislike Khârn" (or words to that effect) A brutal warrior, resigned to the fate that was the Butchers nails. His relationship with Argel Tal was genuinley moving Forgot the name - the Thousand Son who accepts death with the realisation of how the Change has affected his Legion Obviously not exhaustive, but I do enjoy reading about characters whose loyalties lie contra to those we should support, but are still nonetheless relatable. Oh and as an aside I LOVED Sharrowkyn's parting words to Lucius with there obvious nod as to how Lucius takes over the body of his vanquishers. So yes, your thoughts on the 31k Universe's nicest bad guys? TJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Sor Talgron. To bad he became the Warmonger. I had Hopes for him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3328944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Just about that whole Lucius thing. It doesn't seem to me that Sharrowkyn does die. Cause I thought he was extracted with the Iron Hands, which would imply that Lucius didn't take his body as his own. To be it just meant that Lucius came back alive, cause Slaanesh wants to keep him alive. I know the idea is that he takes a person's body who takes pleasure in his kill. But as Sharrowkyn doesn't take any pleasure in it surely he doesn't get turned. Just what I took from that moment, feel free to correct me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I'd say Lorgar, even though he's a simpering fool. A-D-B wrote him quite well. So when he gets tricked by Chaos and converted, you feel bad for him. All he wanted was to be loved by the Emprah, and be given recognition for his devotion and efforts. He was inferior to all of his brothers, and the one thing he thought he could do to bring himself on par with them, the Emperor punished him for. And worst, the Emperor used one of his best sons to carry out the punishment, which was even more humiliating for Lorgar. While I've had a lot of problems with the story of Lorgar simply because the Emperor's actions seem way too heavy handed and excessive to be logical, as written, Lorgar is a sympathetic character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserTJ1860 Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Just about that whole Lucius thing. It doesn't seem to me that Sharrowkyn does die. Cause I thought he was extracted with the Iron Hands, which would imply that Lucius didn't take his body as his own. To be it just meant that Lucius came back alive, cause Slaanesh wants to keep him alive. I know the idea is that he takes a person's body who takes pleasure in his kill. But as Sharrowkyn doesn't take any pleasure in it surely he doesn't get turned. Just what I took from that moment, feel free to correct me Yeah you're right here. I just like the allusion to Lucius future. I see the duel with Sharrowkyn and how it unfolded as the reason for the gift that Slaanesh bestows on Lucius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Also I would of been so annoyed if it had ended with Sharrowkyn being turned. He was cool! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I've always thought Mortarion was pretty tragic: He's already turned on one father, he turns traitor again out of loyalty to his friend and a desire to stand up for freedom, and what does it get him? Nurglish date beat into the decaying leader of corpse abominations. Thanks, Chaos Gods! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 What about about our one eyed friend Magnus? Poor chap both tried to save Horus and warn the big E. And all he got for that was a prison sentence. Then Horus changes Russes orders and he gets an orifice extension and sells his soul to save his people only in the end to have Ahriman mambo jumbo the Legion into automata. If that aint tragic IDK what is really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 In descending order based upon the degrees of tragedy in their fall: Argel Tal Magnus Horus Lhorke Fulgrim Khârn The Word Bearer that had to kill his friend to start off the whole shebang in Know No Fear(can't remember his name and can't be bothered to look it up this moment) ----------- I could keep going really. I find a bit of tragedy in nearly all of the HH villains. Few save individuals like Erebus, Kor Phaeron, Lucius etc etc etc can't be seen beginning their descent into Chaos as a victim. The first and foremost, in my mind, being Argel Tal. Argel Tal became a monster for his father. Tal had no idea what would happen to him in the Warp, but Lorgar had a theory... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Khârn eh? I honestly wouldn't bother to consider him tragic, but I can see the reasoning behind it. After all there were a couple of his legion with the glands implanted that remained loyal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingo Pech Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Since "Angel Exterminatus" I would say Perturabo. Because he´s not the callous, clinical, jealous and backstabbing scumbag, he was described as in the former HH-books. He is intelligent, visionary, creative, he has honor, he loves his legion, he loves humanity, he wants to bring the brother war to an end and he wants to restore the human rulership over the galaxy. He is not the candid guy you easily fall in love with or the warm-hearted brother - but he´s the on you can rely on, if things are getting worse. And he and his legion never got the props for their devotion and achievments, like the Death Guard too. And at the end, he´s responsible for Fulgrims demonhood and for the fall of his legion... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I agree with Perturabo after Angel Exterminatus. I have just finished Betrayer, and I am whole heartedly on side with Argel Tal for this thread. Despite having Raum inside him is still a clever, well thought, reasonable Astartes who cares about his brothers and The Blessed Lady (name escapes me) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/272832-the-most-sympathetic-traitors-spoilers-spoilers-everywhere/#findComment-3329945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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