Question regarding fluff

[Azoriel]

Not sure how the Unforgiven add to the complexity. We already deviate from the Codex Astartes with having unnumbered Deathwing and Ravenwing companies. I'd think having greater-than-the-norm amount of Terminator Veterans in a chapter would be a much bigger deal to the Imperium than commanding some well-equipped serfs.

 

To put it another way, the Unforgiven aren't really known for playing by the book, quite literally. Why would they, as you put it, "especially" have a problem with this? Why would the Unforgiven not "tolerate" another deviation, so long as the Inner Circle is kept intact and secret?

 

The power armor and bolter being sacred, I'd agree with. However, I think that a Space Marine chapter is largely autonomous and has the authority to do what it wishes with it's own armory. If they have a surplus of power armor and bolters and have judged their own battle-sisters as holy and pure enough to wield them, it's no one's right to countermand that judgement.

 

No astartes chapter is going to have suits of power armor sized for a non-astartes, surplus or otherwise.  Using surplus astartes-sized bolters is a little more viable, but not by much.  (-10 penalty to hit according to Deathwatch rules?  Not that it has any bearing on the 40K game, but the point is that it doesn't really work from a fluff perspective.)  If you really want to continue down the route of non-sororitas sisters in power armor, you'll need some other means to justify it.

[Nemo vas Varya]

 

Not sure how the Unforgiven add to the complexity. We already deviate from the Codex Astartes with having unnumbered Deathwing and Ravenwing companies. I'd think having greater-than-the-norm amount of Terminator Veterans in a chapter would be a much bigger deal to the Imperium than commanding some well-equipped serfs.

 

To put it another way, the Unforgiven aren't really known for playing by the book, quite literally. Why would they, as you put it, "especially" have a problem with this? Why would the Unforgiven not "tolerate" another deviation, so long as the Inner Circle is kept intact and secret?

 

The power armor and bolter being sacred, I'd agree with. However, I think that a Space Marine chapter is largely autonomous and has the authority to do what it wishes with it's own armory. If they have a surplus of power armor and bolters and have judged their own battle-sisters as holy and pure enough to wield them, it's no one's right to countermand that judgement.

 

No astartes chapter is going to have suits of power armor sized for a non-astartes, surplus or otherwise.  Using surplus astartes-sized bolters is a little more viable, but not by much.  (-10 penalty to hit according to Deathwatch rules?  Not that it has any bearing on the 40K game, but the point is that it doesn't really work from a fluff perspective.)  If you really want to continue down the route of non-sororitas sisters in power armor, you'll need some other means to justify it.

I actually mentioned, much earlier in this thread, that I would be using the IG codex for this 'company' so the Power Armor debate is kind of moot, unless i am going to run them all as techpriests :-p

[Bryan Blaire]

The one real sticking point I would see with the backstory would actually be the Ecclesiarchy pushing for a Chapter formation. That probably isn't going to do much with regard to the rest of the High Lords of Terra actually sanctioning a Founding (even if the Ecclesiarch wants it), and if they are pushing jointly with the DA (who they already greatly distrust and suspect of Legion-building, IIRC the latest Codex correctly), I think would set off so many alarms it would never be allowed to happen. The Ecclesiarchy can't have Marines, so why should they be trusted in pushing for a Chapter Founding?

 

Also, doesn't the Ecclesiarchy itself distrust to some fashion the "heathen" Marines? I don't remember exactly how widely known it is that the Marines don't actually follow the Imperium's religion outside of the Space Wolves, but I don't know that the Ecclesiarchy itself would actually countenance supporting the formation of another Chapter that isn't going to follow their ways, especially once the Dark Angels get their mits on their new brothers.

 

As far as the bolters and armor (powered, carapace or otherwise), hey, if the Chapter wants to build that stuff for their serfs, so be it, IMO, but they probably aren't going to be considered an auxiliary Company, just a completely auxiliary IG/IN force attached to the Chapter. However, "surplus" Marine armor won't fit normal sized humans.

 

Welcome to the Rock, Nemo vas Varya and nice avatar pic. :D

[Nemo vas Varya]

The one real sticking point I would see with the backstory would actually be the Ecclesiarchy pushing for a Chapter formation. That probably isn't going to do much with regard to the rest of the High Lords of Terra actually sanctioning a Founding (even if the Ecclesiarch wants it), and if they are pushing jointly with the DA (who they already greatly distrust and suspect of Legion-building, IIRC the latest Codex correctly), I think would set off so many alarms it would never be allowed to happen. The Ecclesiarchy can't have Marines, so why should they be trusted in pushing for a Chapter Founding?

Also, doesn't the Ecclesiarchy itself distrust to some fashion the "heathen" Marines? I don't remember exactly how widely known it is that the Marines don't actually follow the Imperium's religion outside of the Space Wolves, but I don't know that the Ecclesiarchy itself would actually countenance supporting the formation of another Chapter that isn't going to follow their ways, especially once the Dark Angels get their mits on their new brothers.

As far as the bolters and armor (powered, carapace or otherwise), hey, if the Chapter wants to build that stuff for their serfs, so be it, IMO, but they probably aren't going to be considered an auxiliary Company, just a completely auxiliary IG/IN force attached to the Chapter. However, "surplus" Marine armor won't fit normal sized humans.

Welcome to the Rock, Nemo vas Varya and nice avatar pic.

Thanks for the pic comment. (Is a massive Tali/Quarian fan boy!)

As the background provided, it was brief, incomplete and mercurial, and has actually undergone a lot of changes since going up, based largely on feedback from here (Why I asked for feedback, I wasn't 'happy' with the idea, but I felt it was cool. Still collecting some feedback before I commit to the next proof of concept draft.) The founding issue was resolved, they were moved to the 22nd Founding, which just happened to conincide with the Crusade, and since their recruitment world was one of the worlds contributing large number of IG for the Crusade, as well as the birth place of the Conaness Superior who is going to lead the assault. (The involvment of the ecclesiarchy is actually on thin ice right now. There are elements of the relationship I like, such as the Angels using the Ecclesiarchy to divert the Inquisition and such, but I am not sold to the idea yet.)

I am also thinking of shifting DInael from the grand high poobaa of the Crusade to a more humble origin where her personal bravery and surprising resolve is far more heroic, and less expected, after all you expect a Canoness Superior to martyr herself to save a cause, you don't expect it from a dock worker at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[march10k]

You can use those as well : http://chapterhousestudios.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=77&product_id=163

 

However there is another flaw if you can call it that: As stated you need to find a good fluffy reason as to why those are been tolerated by the Unforgiven as a new company/attached troops and it is also considered a serious breach of the codex astartes and the Imperial military protocol. Namely: Durring the great crusade, imperial guard forces had suffered horendusly under the command of astartes officers because the later were unable to comprehend the mortality of their own troops. So it was banned, marines would never act as commanding officers of human troops. A wider campaign might fall under the juristiction of a marine commander but the guard operates as a semi indipendednt element.

 

 

Does not apply.  These are NOT imperial guard.  They are serfs.  They are basically the property of the chapter, and the idea here is not that they're some kind of auxiliary force to the chapter, but that they're noncombatants with limited training (I'd suggest the conscript statline, but you just can't get a squad of conscripts in a legal list all by themselves, so we're stuck with vets, due to the rules) who are handed weapons and put on the line in a defense-of-the-homeworld emergency.  And they happen to be female relatives of some who were accepted for training/modification as future marines.  In any case, not being a regular military force that is recognized by the imperium, the prohibition against putting immortals in command of mortals does not apply.  I agree that the PDF story line works better, but this is his fluff, and it's a really big galaxy, with room for all kinds of unusual situations.

[Azoriel]

As far as serfs go, I actually don't think there's an issue with them being competent in combat - while they aren't supposed to be used as an auxiliary military force, they're responsible for defending the space craft and chapter keeps while their masters are away.

 

From the BFG rules on Space Marine ship crews:

 

 

There are also a few hundred Chapter serfs to attend to other duties, such as routine cleaning and maintenance, serving the Space Marines during meal times and other such honoured tasks. These serfs come from the Chapter’s home planet or the enclave they protect, many of them Novitiates or applicants who have failed some part of the recruiting or training process. These serfs are fanatically loyal to their superhuman masters, and indoctrinated into many of the lesser orders of the Chapter’s Cult. Although human, they still benefit from remarkable training and access to superior weaponry than is usually found on a naval vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a boarding action – even without the support of their genetically modified lords.

 

While being female would preclude said serfs from being failed applicants, it doesn't preclude them from being above average in ability.

[Brother Immolator]

Defending a chapter keep / installation / whatever is one thing. Deploying along side the chapter on engagements in regular basis is another though.

 

 

 

but this is his fluff,

 

 

And thats why I only offer my opinions and even pointed into models to help flesh them out. I dont care if I see deployed auxiliary mind controled tyrands wielding lasannons, under the control of a custodian that was sent by the emperor because the chapter is da awezomezt. I would play either way and had a good time as long as we sticked to the rules. I am not a fluff nazi, I am playing devils advocate.

[Nemo vas Varya]

There are a 1000 Space Marine chapters, all of which, in the exception of the Ultramarines, break the rules every so often. I mean we are talking about effectively ageless super humans who know they could EASILY topple the Imperium if they worked together, but don't join up due to the honor system.

 

They know they can do small or even large deviations and get away with it, because the Imperium has to maintain that balance of not giving the marines a reason to no longer regard the honor system. As long as it is not massive and obvious, I think a LOT of things will be begrudgingly accepted.

 

Hell as I thought about, even the Smurfs break the rules with their own little mini-Empire which they run.

 

GW has engineered the fluff to allow the players to be very creative and do amazing things with it. I asked for opinions here because I wanted to make sure my idea could be worked with the Fluff as established, and then work on explanations for the variations of the accepted fluff and to make sure those explanations work. My initial ones worked, but had to have a lot explained, plus would be annoying to justify because everyone bloody things the DA and Inquisition are at war (In fact the opposite, the DA does everything in their power to AVOID Inquisition attention... they don't want them sniffing around.) and everyone thinks SoB=Inquisition.

 

I like the idea of the Aux Serfs fighting. It plays into the theme of the human spirit conquers all. These women are not super soldiers, they are not genetically engineered. They are fighting along side the marines though, showing that they are prepared to do their duty as well. The fluff I am giving them is that they are a select group of Serfs, recruited from biological female relatives of marine recruits, who were originally selected as a memorial for a historical figure who gloriously died in an important battle. There original function was to be a high trained security force aboard the Chapters strike cruisers, as well as be the officers of the ship. They wanted to fight along side their brothers though, and worked hard to prove themselves. This won them the responsibility to manage and coordinate the supply lines to the front. While they still rarely operate in a forward operation, they do manage the supply line to the front, and at times might get stuck up with their brothers, at which point they fight like everyone else.

 

They are human women, dedicated and loyal to the Chapter, who will live and die for it, and use the devotion to become the embodiment of the human spirit. That is completely fluffy to me.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

There are a 1000 Space Marine chapters, all of which, in the exception of the Ultramarines, break the rules every so often.

in the exception of the Ultramarines, break the rules every so often.

exception of the Ultramarines

Ultramarines

Now listen here you-

Hell as I thought about, even the Smurfs break the rules with their own little mini-Empire which they run.

-oh good, you're forgiven.

This time....